Andre Iguodala

[Chris]

My brain hurts talking about all these seedings and contracts and rebuild plans. Sigh.

 

[acook0718]

The draft is not a crap shoot.

San Antonio. Oklahoma City. Portland.

Golden State. Memphis. Minnesota.

Do you know the main difference between those two groups of teams?

ETA: aside from one being successful and one being unsuccessful

They all have not won shit... except for San Antonio?

 

[InBoobieWeTrust]

They all have not won shit... except for San Antonio?

Oklahoma City has a top 5 NBA player, who is 22 years old locked up for half a decade. If you can't see why that's an extremely enviable position to be in, there's no point.

 

[Triumph36]

The Cavs aren't even close to being strapped financially at the moment. We're actually technically under the cap, though the TPE is currently taking up the place of that extra cap room. We are about 18 million short of the luxury tax at the moment as well. Not that we should go get Iguodala, just want to be factually correct about being "financially strapped" which we are not.

I mean, we basically shedded 35 million in payroll just by losing Shaq and that one guy who was kind of good at basketball.

That was poorly worded. I should've said they lack decent flexibility instead because technically they aren't strapped for cash. The point was if he's acquired with the TPE, it would basically kill what little flexibility the team has leaving no room for the acquisitions necessary to contend.

Humor me

They were both built through the draft but have drastically different front offices and as a result drastically different levels of success. Hell, San Antonio's core was built through the draft and they've been the second most dominant team in the league over the past decade. Portland's core of Batum, Roy, Aldridge, and Oden are all from the draft and they're only being held back by some unfortunate injury luck. And obviously there's OKC, the team with the second brightest future outside of Miami (which isn't really a fair comparison in the first place). For the draft being such a crap shoot, I guess those teams got REALLY REALLY lucky...

If you have a competent front office, you can rebuild through the draft and be quite successful. If you don't, you will fail. But then again if you can't count on your front office to draft properly, you probably can't count on them to make the correct signings/trades/etc either.

 

[*L-Train*]

They all have not won shit... except for San Antonio?

so what? those 2 teams are still young and haven't even reached their peak yet. you could argue that both of those teams are contenders (when healthy) and once kobe starts to decline those two teams will probably come out of the west year after year. i would take that over a cavs team with iguodala any day of the week because our only hope reaching the finals would be if a meteor destroys the state of florida

 

[Silky Smooth]

Iguodala's anchor of a contract will keep you as that 6th seed for the next 4 years instead of maybe just having one emotional "for the pride of the city and players and organization" year.

Either way like I said I'd rather start the rebuilding process now and build through the draft instead of pushing for an 8th seed that is only going to give us a low pick that won't be worth anything. I mean don't get me wrong I'd love to see this team succeed and all that but if your not closing in on championship contention then there is no reason to waste what could be a high pick for an 8th seed.

P.S. It would be nice to make the playoffs.

 

[InBoobieWeTrust]

ThPortland's core of Batum, Roy, Aldridge, and Oden are all from the draft and they're only being held back by some unfortunate injury luck. And obviously there's OKC, the team with the second brightest future outside of Miami (which isn't really a fair comparison in the first place). For the draft being such a crap shoot, I guess those teams got REALLY REALLY lucky...

If you have a competent front office, you can rebuild through the draft and be quite successful. If you don't, you will fail. But then again if you can't count on your front office to draft properly, you probably can't count on them to make the correct signings/trades/etc either.

I will say, Portland's front office is criminally overrated in some aspects. They did a good job accumulating talent in a few years where there were a lot of busts, but they made some key mistakes. Drafting Oden was obviously a huge gaffe, their team doctors are a joke. Their other problem has been overvaluing their young talent and never being willing to go get the veterans they need to compete for a title. Rudy Fernandez' value on a scale of 1-10 went from a 6 to a -3 because Portland valued him as an 11. The same will happen with Batum if they aren't careful. They should have taken the 4th pick in the draft and drafted Cousins without even batting an eyelash, but they screwed that up.

 

[Kouki]

I don't even understand this treadmill of mediocrity garbage anyways. I really don't think we are much worse of a team if we ship out Jamison, who is most likely to go, and even if we ship out Mo, who is second most likely to go. That team is still fighting for an 8th seed. The 14th pick isn't much better than the 18th.

 

[acook0718]

Oklahoma City has a top 5 NBA player, who is 22 years old locked up for half a decade. If you can't see why that's an extremely enviable position to be in, there's no point.

And how long did it take Seattle/OkC to finally hit it big and get Durant? We drafted our Durant 7 years ago how did that end up? All Im saying is the draft is not what everyone thinks it is... let take a look


2000-nets grizzlies clippers bulls magic--- zero championships
2001-wizards clippers hawks bulls warriors --zero championships
2002- rockets bulls warriors grizzlies nuggets--zero championships
2003-cavs pistons nuggets raptors heat-- 2 championships--- including detroit whos pick didnt have anything to do with title
2004-orlando charlotte chicago clipper washington--zero championships
2005-milwaukee atlanta utah new orleans charlotte--zero championships
2006-raptors bulls bobcats blazers hawks--zero championships
2007-blazers sonics hawks grizzlies seattle (from boston)--zero championships
2008-chicago miami minnesota seattle memphis--zero championships
2009-clippers grizzlies thunder kings timberwolves--zero championships

so thats 2 championships from top 5 picks in the last 10 yrs

And lets talk about San Antonio--- they lucked into Duncan... they were a very good team in the 90's with Elliot and Robinson but happened to luck into the number one pick in 1997 when David Robinson was lost for the season after 6 games and Elliot missed more than half of the season so they tanked and ended up with the 1st pick. There situation was not like the cavs who have to rebuild now...they got Duncan with the first pick and a healthy Robinson and Elliot back the next year. They added veterans Mario Ellie and Steve Kerr and won their first championship during the lockout year... the next championship came in 02-03 when tony parker-- (28th pick) and Ginobli (2nd rounder) joined the team along with additions stephen jackson and danny ferry. So Im not sure how the Spurs situation is even close to the Cavs. Everyone like to point out that the Spurs built through the draft....yea great they did... with late picks and 2nd rounders while still being successful. There biggest thing was lucking into Duncan when Robinson and Elliot got hurt without that season the spurs dont end up with Duncan or a top 20 pick. That would be like if in 2007 Lebron goes down with season ending injury and we get the number one pick and draft Rose and go on to win the championship in 08---we wouldnt have "built through the draft" we "lucked out".

TWO teams in the last 15 years with a top 5 pick has won the nba championship--- Miami and San Antonio ( I wont count detroit because of Darko not contributing) Already reviewed why Spurs were successful, so Miami is the only true legit team to do it. With the help from Shaq ;-) The rest of the teams did it with later picks and bringing in supporting cast.

I guess with all this crap all I mean to say is just because you trade off players and get top 5 picks.... it means nothing it guarantees you nothing. Ask the grizzlies, hawks timberwolves, bucks, bulls and blazers (who have made plenty of mistakes)

You can be successful and still build through the draft at the same time, that is the major difference between good franchises and bad franchises Im not saying that building through the draft is BAD Im just saying you dont have to totally tank to do so. You just need a competent front office who can evaluate later talent LIKE SAN ANTONIO

PS hope I didnt make any mistakes or miss anything... its too damn late for this.

 

[acook0718]

because our only hope reaching the finals would be if a meteor destroys the state of florida

Which is those teams chances of winning a championship too if they make the finals, while Orlando and Miami are being dominant for 6 yrs

 

[Sock]

Here is the thing with him. There is no potential benefit on having him. Yes we might make the playoffs because of him but there is just no way we can advance any further with him as number 1. His contract is just disgusting. With him on, it would be hard to get close to max contract guy without sacrificing the bench.

We as a team need to take a step back to take 2 steps forward. Take a closer look and we have been drafting quite well these past few years with whatever we had. That is tremendous.

And as Iggy being a top 5 SG, woo, okay. I have a list of guys i'd take before i take AI and his contract; Kobe, Wade, Johnson, Roy, Ray Allen, Captain Jack, Mayo, Ginobili. This is just the me thinking on the spot and not google-ing stuff.

 

[acook0718]

Here is the thing with him. There is no potential benefit on having him. Yes we might make the playoffs because of him but there is just no way we can advance any further with him as number 1. His contract is just disgusting. With him on, it would be hard to get close to max contract guy without sacrificing the bench.

We as a team need to take a step back to take 2 steps forward. Take a closer look and we have been drafting quite well these past few years with whatever we had. That is tremendous.

And as Iggy being a top 5 SG, woo, okay. I have a list of guys i'd take before i take AI and his contract; Kobe, Wade, Johnson, Roy, Ray Allen, Captain Jack, Mayo, Ginobili. This is just the me thinking on the spot and not google-ing stuff.

Of that list we have no chance of getting kobe wade johnson or roy.... of the others the only one I take over him is Mayo at this point

 

[abraxas]

Got a question for you all...How many coaches have been in Philadelphia over the 6 season that Igoudala has been there? What do you think? 3? 5? How about 6? 6 different coaches, including a change after his rookie season. That's point #1.

Point #2: If anyone watched his play during the world championships this summer, that explains why for the past year I was harping on this forum for the Cavs to try and deal for Iggy to be Lebron's Pippen. Now that Lebron is gone, why would we want a Pippen you ask? Because the dude is 26 years old, has shown great potential, and on this Scott coached team, could be a huge piece in a quick rebuild. Could he be a star? Most likely not. Could he be a big piece in a contending team? Absolutely.

The fact is we need to dump Jamison from this team. Philly wouldn't want Jamison but maybe a 3-way would work with a team (OKC perhaps?) that would want Jamison, a team that needs a couple more pieces for their playoff run. I'd be psyched to net Igoudala for Jamison.

 

[Sock]

Of that list we have no chance of getting kobe wade johnson or roy.... of the others the only one I take over him is Mayo at this point

But thats really not the point. The point is that he is a complementary player. Everyone agrees on that?

Okay next point, with James gone, there is no player he would be second fiddle to with so that means he is gonna be the number one guy on this team. You can argue Mo over him but in reality they are both 2b/3rd options.

Point #2: If anyone watched his play during the world championships this summer, that explains why for the past year I was harping on this forum for the Cavs to try and deal for Iggy to be Lebron's Pippen. Now that Lebron is gone, why would we want a Pippen you ask? Because the dude is 26 years old, has shown great potential, and on this Scott coached team, could be a huge piece in a quick rebuild. Could he be a star? Most likely not. Could he be a big piece in a contending team? Absolutely.

The fact is we need to dump Jamison from this team. Philly wouldn't want Jamison but maybe a 3-way would work with a team (OKC perhaps?) that would want Jamison, a team that needs a couple more pieces for their playoff run. I'd be psyched to net Igoudala for Jamison.

Not if his contract is 13mil per year or whatever. I'd take him if his salary is half of that.

It would be astonishing to find a team to take Jamison this year without giving them something potentially huge in return.

 

[bigjmac0815]

Let's just sit back and watch how the season panes out........I believe if we're in the playoff hunt around late Dec.-early Jan. I say we go after Iggy