Baker Mayfield: Fire The Cannons

[The Wizard of Moz]

This is an attitude much needed in the city's sports. There's just something about Baker (probably breaking the rookie TD passing record) that makes me feel that he's not a whiff like so many other false hopes (since I've moved here: Charlie Frye, Brady "Dublin Dillweed" Quinn, Derek Anderson (LOL), Johnny 8-Ball...)

Manziel should have never provided false hope

He was never good

 

[Norm]

Manziel should have never provided false hope

He was never good

Manzitter..........the nickname that never was. Much like his career

 

[Lee]

And Tom is playing Miami, Buffalo and NYJ’s 6/16 games a year. That’s 6 free wins almost every year. They’re also deflating balls, stealing signs, and whatever the fuck else they do and just haven’t gotten caught.

It’s plain ignoring history, does the NBA ignore what wilt did because the competition was shit? Does baseball ignore Ruth or any other past legend? The answers are no.

Let’s be honest too, when they did play the NFL in their first year, they whooped their asses. Then as the legend says they didn’t even throw the ball in a championship game to prove a point and won.

I do discount what Wilt did and Bill Russell, its one of my big problems comparing pre 1970's basketball records to today. I also talk about how Ruth never had play against black players like Josh Gibson the true homerun king or Satchel Paige the best pitcher of the era. SO yes, I do think those arguments are very valid when comparing a Barry Bonds or whoever you want to Ruth.

And so what they get 6 games "free", the other 10 are not, they make the playoffs and whoop up on some good teams, make the super bowl and won 6 out of 9 times.

its just never really been done in modern football. You can make the argument that Belicheck and his defensive schemes in the playoffs are a huge advantage for Brady where he hasn't had to be amazing to win, but don't bring up Otto Graham, there is zero validity to what he did and modern football.

Also, you do know 2 of the 4 balls the tested for Indy were deflated too right? That the didn't test all the Indy balls because they ran out of time, deflategate was a farce and payback for not getting properly punished for spygate.

 

[Lee]

It's unique in sports. Nobody ignores Babe Ruth, Lou Gehrig or any of the other early greats.

The only exception is Jim Brown. Otherwise the NFL criminally underplays it's pre-Super Bowl era.

As far as the AAFC is concerned -- the Browns drew better than ANY other team in the AAFC OR NFL. The AAFC owners had more money and great players, but they didn't have a draft so Paul Brown sucked up tons of talent. The NFL made fun of the AAFC and then got CRUSHED in the REAL first "Super Bowl" between the Browns and Eagles in 1950 (defending champs).

Otto played 10 years, 10 championship games, 7 championships. That team is the ONLY team in NFL history to play in the NFL championship game SIX years in a row. Oh, and Otto won a pro basketball championship as well.

Plus Cleveland won the NFL the year directly before the Browns' run -- 1945 Cleveland Rams. They pulled a LeBron and went to LA and took Bob Waterfield and his wife with them. Lou Groza then beat their west coast asses in Cleveland Stadium in the Browns first year in the NFL with a 16 yard FG to win it with 28 seconds left.

Waterfield's wife:

I got to meet Lou Groza in Florida. Long story short i was visiting my grandparents in the winter home and Lou stopped my grandpa because of his Ohio plates. I was in the mall briefly, returned to see my Grandpa talking to a large older stranger. This was not uncommon so I thought nothing of it so i went up to them to introduce myself and talk and before i could get a word out the man put a ring into my hand.

I look down at the ring and it said on it "Hall of Fame" I look back and ask "Who are you" with an enormous smile on my face, and yep, it was Lou fucking Groza.

Nice man, one of the cooler experiences of my life. And yes, i gave the ring back, lol

 

[Dr. Claw]

Manziel should have never provided false hope

He was never good

I wanted to at least see him demonstrate that in the NFL instead of listening to half-baked "sHoRt QbS cAnT pLaY" analysis. I tend to treat Cleveland sports (counter to character) with cautious optimism if I see a hint of upside. I even thought Charlie Frye could have been decent, LOL. But he was the beta test version of Brandon Weeden (still hilarious to me how the Cowboys picked him up)

 

[The Oi]

Manzitter..........the nickname that never was. Much like his career

Are you the one who attempted Manzitter?

That was a putrid nickname.

 

[2 For The Brew]

I got to meet Lou Groza in Florida. Long story short i was visiting my grandparents in the winter home and Lou stopped my grandpa because of his Ohio plates. I was in the mall briefly, returned to see my Grandpa talking to a large older stranger. This was not uncommon so I thought nothing of it so i went up to them to introduce myself and talk and before i could get a word out the man put a ring into my hand.

I look down at the ring and it said on it "Hall of Fame" I look back and ask "Who are you" with an enormous smile on my face, and yep, it was Lou fucking Groza.

Nice man, one of the cooler experiences of my life. And yes, i gave the ring back, lol

I met Lou as well -- took him out to dinner in fact. And no, I'm not Reggie Rucker.

 

[Norm]

Are you the one who attempted Manzitter?

That was a putrid nickname.

Yes, it was putrid. Much like the player it didn't attach to

 

[The Wizard of Moz]

Well I for one am stunned that Lee met Lou Groza

 

[Huber.]

@The Oi has a funny story about Lou Groza that took place in Ashtabula

 

[macbdog]

If you want to find out how great a player was you compare them to their era. The 'what ifs' go both ways- what if Babe Ruth also had access to Barry Bonds' clear, what if Russell has access to modern training, what if Otto Graham had been on TB12, what if Wilt had Tinder or an R Kelly style sex cult and could spend more time practicing, etc. Each subsequent generation is going to have an advantage over the last as each game gets bigger, faster, stronger. My question is- how did they do against their competition? To me, this is concrete evidence of a player's bad assery. The rest is what ifs and conjecture.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

Well I for one am stunned that Lee met Lou Groza

Hey, I met Lou Groza. And Jim Houston, from the '64 team. Actually hung out with them for a weekend trip with the Browns to Dallas because I won a contest. Houston was a great guy, and sort of took care of Lou because he was older and couldn't move around much anymore.

 

[The Oi]

@The Oi has a funny story about Lou Groza that took place in Ashtabula

Cant believe you brought that up.

Back in the late 80’s my Uncle Bernie and I were picking up donuts at Squire Shoppe in Ashtabula while I was on a work run with him that day. Bernie worked for a major candy distributor at the time and we happened to have some of the candy sitting on one of the tables while I was reading a comic book.

Lou walked in with a younger man and Bernie recognized him immediately. He yelled out “TOE!” the minute he walked up to the counter. I had no idea who he was talking about. Lou was older then, in his 70’s.

Bernie talked to him for a while about the Browns. Lou saw some of the candy splayed out on the table and said he’d pay for our donuts if we traded him some of our candy. Bernie offered to pay for his donuts instead but he refused.

Bernie jokingly told him I was becoming a Michigan fan and Lou pretended to tackle me into the table and almost fell down. I started crying.

 

[The Voice]

I do discount what Wilt did and Bill Russell, its one of my big problems comparing pre 1970's basketball records to today. I also talk about how Ruth never had play against black players like Josh Gibson the true homerun king or Satchel Paige the best pitcher of the era. SO yes, I do think those arguments are very valid when comparing a Barry Bonds or whoever you want to Ruth.

And so what they get 6 games "free", the other 10 are not, they make the playoffs and whoop up on some good teams, make the super bowl and won 6 out of 9 times.

its just never really been done in modern football. You can make the argument that Belicheck and his defensive schemes in the playoffs are a huge advantage for Brady where he hasn't had to be amazing to win, but don't bring up Otto Graham, there is zero validity to what he did and modern football.

Also, you do know 2 of the 4 balls the tested for Indy were deflated too right? That the didn't test all the Indy balls because they ran out of time, deflategate was a farce and payback for not getting properly punished for spygate.

I didn’t say you, I said do the leagues discount what they did? The answer is no, they don’t.

If you watch the NBA on television, they talk about Bill Russell. If you watch baseball on tv, they talk about Babe Ruth. They don’t say much about Otto.

 

[Lee]

I didn’t say you, I said do the leagues discount what they did? The answer is no, they don’t.

If you watch the NBA on television, they talk about Bill Russell. If you watch baseball on tv, they talk about Babe Ruth. They don’t say much about Otto.

Babe ruth makes a bit of sense since in a 160 game season you can compare his stats although I do feel they were inflated with 3 man rotations, no offseason training, etc.

Russell is complete crap to me as the league was so small, but Russell practically invented defense so that is good.

And I get why they don't talk about Otto, different league back then completely, only old QB worth mentioning with todays QB's is Johnny Unitas.