Battle for the AL Central #3 -|- Tribe vs. Tigers -|- August 5th, 6th, 7th, and 8th

[Mr. Orange]

Re: Battle for the AL Central #3 -|- Tribe vs. Tigers -|- August 5th, 6th, 7th, and 8

Jesus Christ can we stop with the attendance bullshit already? Every single thread has b00bie leading the charge about how everyone is wrong, he's right, and Indians's fans suck. We get it, now can you please just let it fucking drop? We know baseball is your favorite sport, it's the third wheel here. Deal with it.

Not sure why some (one) here don't (doesn't) get it. The Indians are an average team. Somewhere between the 11th -15th or so team in baseball. If you consider the top 10 good, middle 10 average, and bottom 10 bad, we have an average team.

Cleveland, like most towns, will support a winner and a good team. We drew 25K for an average team last night. Unfortunately, Jacobs Field is probably 4-5K seats too large for today's HD fan. Look at PNC park, has about 4K less seats than the Jake. The crowd last night would have filled 2/3 of PNC for an average team who is not in a playoff spot, was just on the losing end of a 4 game sweep, on a weekday, and there was a Browns game a mile away. Really not a bad crowd all things considered.

If we win or compete for a division title in September, the fans will fill it up or come close. It's up to the front office to make moves this offseason.

Now cue someone shitting on this post, and not understanding why blue collar workers in a recession are not busting the piggy banks to see an average team which tends to collapse each summer...

 

[ssopata]

Re: Battle for the AL Central #3 -|- Tribe vs. Tigers -|- August 5th, 6th, 7th, and 8

^ tend to agree w/jigio

You have alot of players on this team who have been playing far better than expected (Raburn, Gomes) and a starting pitching staff that had one consistent arm and 4 question marks. Who would of thought the bullpen would be as weak as it's been, especially after last year.

Looking back to April, if we had said we were within 3 games of 1st on Aug 5th, everybody would have been excited. Yes they dropped 4 straight to Detroit, it's not like this is the teams first extended losing streak this season. Wins and losses have both come in large chunks in '13. Hopefully they brush it off and go back to the day to day focus. If they make a push for the WC all the better but I expect them not to fold like teams have the past 5 years.

Is this past series going to stop me from heading down to the ballpark? Hell no. I love the game, the atmosphere, watching my boys enjoy the game, not wins and losses. I fell in love with the game going down to the old joint in the mid 70's watching those teams play bad ball. I'd have given anything to be in a pennent hunt back then.

 

[PIP]

Re: Battle for the AL Central #3 -|- Tribe vs. Tigers -|- August 5th, 6th, 7th, and 8

Jim Leyland just owns the Indians... If you recall he was the manager of the 1997 Florida Marlins... The Indians lost that world series if you remember....

 

[Real Deal]

Re: Battle for the AL Central #3 -|- Tribe vs. Tigers -|- August 5th, 6th, 7th, and 8

Delete this thread.

 

[The Oi]

Re: Battle for the AL Central #3 -|- Tribe vs. Tigers -|- August 5th, 6th, 7th, and 8

Ssopata,

I appreciate the recognition, but please call me by my real name.

 

[BMAN]

Re: Battle for the AL Central #3 -|- Tribe vs. Tigers -|- August 5th, 6th, 7th, and 8

b00bie wasn't even the one that brought up the attendance issue...it was Jigo coming in with his trolling and "I told you so" shit.

 

[The Oi]

Re: Battle for the AL Central #3 -|- Tribe vs. Tigers -|- August 5th, 6th, 7th, and 8

It's only trolling if it's false. I was/am/will be right.

And it's relevant. What am I supposed to do? The team gives up a sweep to a team they're trying to compete with for a playoff spot after bitching about fans not showing up for the last few years. And a contingent of fans doing the same.

When people need to be reminded of something, they need to be reminded. Sometimes you need somebody to pound it into your head.

 

[christb]

Re: Battle for the AL Central #3 -|- Tribe vs. Tigers -|- August 5th, 6th, 7th, and 8

Did everyone forget how easy the schedule is finishing up the year? Indians are probably out of the AL central race, but the second wild card spot is totally still in play. This team is awful against Detroit but still pretty good against everyone else. Let's see if they drop series against teams not named the Tigers before we declare the season over and the team garbage.

 

[Chris]

Re: Battle for the AL Central #3 -|- Tribe vs. Tigers -|- August 5th, 6th, 7th, and 8

Jesus Christ can we stop with the attendance bullshit already? Every single thread has b00bie leading the charge about how everyone is wrong, he's right, and Indians's fans suck. We get it, now can you please just let it fucking drop? We know baseball is your favorite sport, it's the third wheel here. Deal with it.

Remember when I said this a week ago and got chastised

 

[AZ_]

Re: Battle for the AL Central #3 -|- Tribe vs. Tigers -|- August 5th, 6th, 7th, and 8

Not sure why some (one) here don't (doesn't) get it. The Indians are an average team. Somewhere between the 11th -15th or so team in baseball. If you consider the top 10 good, middle 10 average, and bottom 10 bad, we have an average team.

Cleveland, like most towns, will support a winner and a good team. We drew 25K for an average team last night. Unfortunately, Jacobs Field is probably 4-5K seats too large for today's HD fan. Look at PNC park, has about 4K less seats than the Jake. The crowd last night would have filled 2/3 of PNC for an average team who is not in a playoff spot, was just on the losing end of a 4 game sweep, on a weekday, and there was a Browns game a mile away. Really not a bad crowd all things considered.

If we win or compete for a division title in September, the fans will fill it up or come close. It's up to the front office to make moves this offseason.

Now cue someone shitting on this post, and not understanding why blue collar workers in a recession are not busting the piggy banks to see an average team which tends to collapse each summer...

Sure, Cleveland supports winners. From the couch, watching TV they will root them on, while claiming every non-90 win season to be a predictable collapse they knew was coming and wonder why the team isn't spending money while ranking towards the bottom in attendance every season.

Don't get me wrong, the Indians are hindered by economics more than anything else. By that same token, you'd be an absolute fool to blame ownership for not approaching free agency as free-spending asset hunters like those clubs in large markets tend to be. It's equally as foolish to spend in free agency when admittedly the best you're hoping for is for the team to "fill it up or come close" in September if they're still playing competitive baseball.

Not sure why you'd turn around and blame ownership for not spending money when fans basically admit they're front-running shitbirds who won't come support the team until the playoffs.

Cleveland isn't the only town with blue-collar workers in a recession, give up the sob story. They rank fourth worst in attendance for a team which IS competitive into the middle of August now.

Make any excuse you want, they aren't supporting a winner.

 

[The Oi]

Re: Battle for the AL Central #3 -|- Tribe vs. Tigers -|- August 5th, 6th, 7th, and 8

Front office did a very solid job this off-season. Can't really complain about that.

 

[Mr. Orange]

Re: Battle for the AL Central #3 -|- Tribe vs. Tigers -|- August 5th, 6th, 7th, and 8

Sure, Cleveland supports winners. From the couch, watching TV they will root them on, while claiming every non-90 win season to be a predictable collapse they knew was coming and wonder why the team isn't spending money while ranking towards the bottom in attendance every season.

Don't get me wrong, the Indians are hindered by economics more than anything else. By that same token, you'd be an absolute fool to blame ownership for not approaching free agency as free-spending asset hunters like those clubs in large markets tend to be. It's equally as foolish to spend in free agency when admittedly the best you're hoping for is for the team to "fill it up or come close" in September if they're still playing competitive baseball.

Not sure why you'd turn around and blame ownership for not spending money when fans basically admit they're front-running shitbirds who won't come support the team until the playoffs.

Cleveland isn't the only town with blue-collar workers in a recession, give up the sob story. They rank fourth worst in attendance for a team which IS competitive into the middle of August now.

Make any excuse you want, they aren't supporting a winner.

No one expects the Indians to spend like the Yankees. Fans expect the Dolans to "spend when the team is in contention" which we are now. Let's see what the Dolans do. They did a good job taking us from the bottom of the league to middle of the pack this year. If the Dolan's support the team, the fans will too.

One playoff appearance in 12 years, you can understand the fans taking a wait and see approach. We aren't exactly talking about the New England Patriots here. But by all means, buy your Indians season tickets each year....

I've been to three Indians games this year. I am usually good for about 8-10 games each year when you combine all 3 pro teams. Not sure what more you expect from fans. This is a small market with 3 teams. Also, fans watching in HD at home is not a problem that is unique to Cleveland. All franchises are dealing with this. Beers are not $10, and there is no line for the bathroom at home.

 

[GreasySpread36]

Re: Battle for the AL Central #3 -|- Tribe vs. Tigers -|- August 5th, 6th, 7th, and 8

No one expects the Indians to spend like the Yankees. Fans expect the Dolans to "spend when the team is in contention" which we are now. Let's see what the Dolans do. They did a good job taking us from the bottom of the league to middle of the pack this year. If the Dolan's support the team, the fans will too.

I hate to take b00bie's side on anything, but this harping on the Dolans "spending when the time is right" makes me want to pull my freaking hair out. They are not going to go out and spend big money and frankly, given the attendance numbers, they shouldn't. It just isn't going to happen. You can either accept that reality or not.

Look, this club will never survive trying to outspend anyone. They have to draft and develop their own talent in-house and they haven't done well enough in that area. That's been a far bigger issue than the amount of free-agent cheddar they have or haven't spend.

People just need to let it go when it comes to the Dolans "spending when the time is right." They won't, full-stop. Might as well move on from it.

 

[AZ_]

Re: Battle for the AL Central #3 -|- Tribe vs. Tigers -|- August 5th, 6th, 7th, and 8

No one expects the Indians to spend like the Yankees. Fans expect the Dolans to "spend when the team is in contention" which we are now. Let's see what the Dolans do. They did a good job taking us from the bottom of the league to middle of the pack this year. If the Dolan's support the team, the fans will too.

One playoff appearance in 12 years, you can understand the fans taking a wait and see approach. We aren't exactly talking about the New England Patriots here. But by all means, buy your Indians season tickets each year....

I've been to three Indians games this year. I am usually good for about 8-10 games each year when you combine all 3 pro teams. Not sure what more you expect from fans. This is a small market with 3 teams. Also, fans watching in HD at home is not a problem that is unique to Cleveland. All franchises are dealing with this. Beers are not $10, and there is no line for the bathroom at home.

One playoff appearance in 12 years isn't a problem unique to Cleveland either. Teams like Baltimore and Pittsburgh are vastly outdrawing the Indians despite similar droughts, to say nothing of other clubs who are not in contention yet continually crush teams like the Indians at the box office.

The Dolans have spent, but more importantly is the fans seem to believe free agent spending is what's holding them back from contention. Year-by-year free agency spending by small market teams has been a lesson in what not to do for emerging franchises. They should be stockpiling young assets, not spending 48 million on mid-level declining players like Nick Swisher.

You're response will undoubtedly be to sign players better than Nick Swisher, and I would ask that you go around the league and talk to players about potential free agent destinations. I assure you Cleveland won't be in the top 20, and it has nothing to do with who's running the team.

If you really want this team to be in contention, stop asking for them to attack free agency like it's the only thing between them and a World Series. Build young assets through the draft, international free agency and carry them through their arbitration years before losing them to large market clubs willing to pay high dollar for incrementally more production than a replacement player offers.


I just wish people would stop making excuses for the city of Cleveland, who clearly doesn't support the team whether it's contending or not. Half of your argument centers around the notion that Cleveland is a town gushing with front-running fans who only come out during an end of season playoff push, but if call them front-runners it's out of line because "ownership" or "one playoff appearance." Those are lazy excuses, when teams with longer and more pressing struggles continually outdraw the Indians it makes that argument null a void.


If you think that makes me a homer, that's fine. You like to pretend that this argument is that of homers who shill for the front office, making judgements about whether or not they're a season ticket holder regardless of what you know about them. That's well and good, but you're simply turning the blind eye to the facts of the situation. Facts which have been repeated thousands of times on this board alone it seems.


It's a tired argument, and one which makes this board insufferable to read at times because too many fans like yourself come on here and rant and rave during the bad times of the season. By all means, don't post here when the team is winning and wait for the lowest point of the season to come voice your concerns about how terrible the team is while they're still in playoff contention. One of the best parts of watching a good team this year has been the absence of these incessant ramblings about the Dolans or how the greats fans of Cleveland deserve better.

Those who have been posting here for a while know and have realized it's all bullshit.

 

[Mr. Orange]

Re: Battle for the AL Central #3 -|- Tribe vs. Tigers -|- August 5th, 6th, 7th, and 8

One playoff appearance in 12 years isn't a problem unique to Cleveland either. Teams like Baltimore and Pittsburgh are vastly outdrawing the Indians despite similar droughts, to say nothing of other clubs who are not in contention yet continually crush teams like the Indians at the box office.

The Dolans have spent, but more importantly is the fans seem to believe free agent spending is what's holding them back from contention. Year-by-year free agency spending by small market teams has been a lesson in what not to do for emerging franchises. They should be stockpiling young assets, not spending 48 million on mid-level declining players like Nick Swisher.

You're response will undoubtedly be to sign players better than Nick Swisher, and I would ask that you go around the league and talk to players about potential free agent destinations. I assure you Cleveland won't be in the top 20, and it has nothing to do with who's running the team.

If you really want this team to be in contention, stop asking for them to attack free agency like it's the only thing between them and a World Series. Build young assets through the draft, international free agency and carry them through their arbitration years before losing them to large market clubs willing to pay high dollar for incrementally more production than a replacement player offers.


I just wish people would stop making excuses for the city of Cleveland, who clearly doesn't support the team whether it's contending or not. Half of your argument centers around the notion that Cleveland is a town gushing with front-running fans who only come out during an end of season playoff push, but if call them front-runners it's out of line because "ownership" or "one playoff appearance." Those are lazy excuses, when teams with longer and more pressing struggles continually outdraw the Indians it makes that argument null a void.


If you think that makes me a homer, that's fine. You like to pretend that this argument is that of homers who shill for the front office, making judgements about whether or not they're a season ticket holder regardless of what you know about them. That's well and good, but you're simply turning the blind eye to the facts of the situation. Facts which have been repeated thousands of times on this board alone it seems.


It's a tired argument, and one which makes this board insufferable to read at times because too many fans like yourself come on here and rant and rave during the bad times of the season. By all means, don't post here when the team is winning and wait for the lowest point of the season to come voice your concerns about how terrible the team is while they're still in playoff contention. One of the best parts of watching a good team this year has been the absence of these incessant ramblings about the Dolans or how the greats fans of Cleveland deserve better.

Those who have been posting here for a while know and have realized it's all bullshit.

TL;DR

Good luck with the rest of the season.