Buying a new laptop.

[gourimoko]

Sup RCF,

I'm in the market for a new laptop. I'm always open to suggestions and I love getting feedback because it opens my mind up to things I never considered. I'll be moving soon, and I plan to use a laptop for work (and everything else). I may game on it, but I rarely have the time. I will be watching movies on it though, certainly, and it will definitely need at least a terabyte of storage and SSD.

I'd like to spend no more than $1,500, and optimally around $1,000. I think that's the sweet spot for most laptops.

Initially, I was looking at ultrabooks. I wanted the most battery life, a very nice screen (that can be used outside, i.e, not glossy), a standard keyboard (not grid layout), a large screen (at least 15.6), and it must be an i7. Discrete, switchable graphics would be ideal. Again, it must also conform to the aforementioned standards, as in, large HDD and an SSD (could be a SSD-cached drive I suppose, if it performed well). I need no less than 8GB of RAM but would prefer 12GB.

Getting all that in an ultrabook seems tough, though. So I've started to look at laptops as well. I'll be doing quite a bit of backpacking, so I would like a lightweight laptop that again has good battery life without sacrificing all of it's performance and screen brightness.

One other concern is the compatibility with Mac OS X. I really would like a laptop that is fairly compatible with Mac so that I can continue Mac/iOS development on-the-go without actually buying a MacBook (which is outrageously priced for what you get).

At present, the machine I'm considering is the Lenovo IdeaPad Y500 59371963
( http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/ideapad/y-series/y500/ )
It's the laptop on the right-side for ~$1100. It's got 16GB RAM, and even comes with 3 graphics devices (Intel HD 4000, 2xNvidia GT750M in SLI!)

It's pretty impressive and is easily a desktop replacement. However, I don't think I'll even use the SLI, not even once. The ultrabay would probably be better served for use as a hard drive caddy for an SSD; which is what I'd likely do anyway. Meaning the next model down, with 12GB of RAM for 929.00 might make more sense.

Anyway, if anyone has any suggestions I'm all ears. I'll likely be buying the laptop around July 4th, so if anyone knows of any deals that I should know about too - that'd be dope! I'm not very good at finding coupons, promos, etc, but I know many of you get shit for really cheap by just knowing where to find stuff.

 

[Man Called X]

Can a mod change the thread title to "Gourimoko has clearly lost his god damn mind and is asking RCF for computer advice." Please?

 

[jvlgato]

I'm not aware of any laptop SSD with 1TB of storage. So you're looking at a second HD built in (making it not so portable) or a separate portable HD. I'd suggest a Macbook Air with 8 GB Ram upgrade and a portable 1TB HD . The new Air has 9-12 hours of battery life and great performance. A little pricier than you wanted, but I think you'll be happy for 5-6 years with it.

I just picked one up last week and think it's great! I installed Parallels and Windows XP to run Quicken and some old billing software that will only run on XP. I could also install Windows 7 and/or 8 if I wanted. It's extremely portable, solid, and can sit in standby for weeks at a time, then be up and ready to go in 2 seconds. The instant on aspect is huge. Yes, the new Win ultras claim to do that, too, but I'm not convinced they've worked out the kinks yet.

I do have a friend who has a Lenovo Yoga and loves it, and it does look impressive, so that could be an option. Not sure you can get that much RAM, though, plus I just wonder if she'll still love it in a few years. Most Windows computers I've had, I've hated in the second year of ownership.

 

[gourimoko]

I'm not aware of any laptop SSD with 1TB of storage.

Sorry if I wasn't clear. I want an HD with 1TB of storage. The SSD should be around 240-256GB, likely a Samsung 800 Pro series.

So you're looking at a second HD built in (making it not so portable) or a separate portable HD.

Everything internal. Two HD's internally by giving up a DVD drive. If there's no room (say in some ultrabooks), maybe an SSD-cached HDD..

I'd suggest a Macbook Air with 8 GB Ram upgrade and a portable 1TB HD . The new Air has 9-12 hours of battery life and great performance. A little pricier than you wanted, but I think you'll be happy for 5-6 years with it.

I really appreciate your advice, and thanks for the feedback but... a Macbook Air? Hmm..

Yeah, so I'm on Apple's site, and the specs are pretty underwhelming.

Pros:
1) Battery life. 9-12 hours? Wow.. that's impressive!

2) Extremely lightweight. This is a big plus for me.

3) Sturdy build.. Don't think it'll break, but...

4) AppleCare.. I normally wouldn't care for warranties on a computer, but considering ultrabooks these days are built to not be repaired (by anyone, ever), then it only makes sense to get AppleCare which is a pretty decent warranty.

5) I can run Mac OS X without fucking around with hacks, which is so convenient, and I hate wasting time.

Cons:
1) The maximum screen size is 13 inches, I don't know the native resolution, considering it's a Retina Display, but I don't know how much screen real estate that is - and I normally work with two monitors so I'm a little weary of scaling down that far.

2) The price is outrageous. With only 256GB of storage (which simply isn't enough, period) the price sits at $1,549. There is no room for another internal storage drive, and I'm not running my secondary storage over a wire - so the only viable option is to upgrade the "flash storage." To go to 500GB costs an additional $300.. Making the really only viable model $1,849.00. Expensive The Samsung 830 512GB SSD is $449 retail, so I dunno why adding 256GB for an OEM device increases the price by $300. There's an incredible markup here, even for only an upgrade.

3) The processor is very slow. 1.7ghz clock is really slow. Turbo Boost is not sustainable. And in my use-case, almost all 8 logical cores will be in use when the system is not sleeping. Please compare the i7 3630M running at 2.4Ghz w/Turbo Boost up to 3.4Ghz.

4) Maximum memory is 8GB, and if I'm not mistaken I cannot upgrade this as Apple solders the DIMMs to the board for some reason? So it's 8GB for life, not upgradeable. 8GB is the minimum I'd be willing to deal with, as I know I'd run into problems (I use VMware and Xen extensively). For almost $2k, I'd like to see at least 12GB of RAM.

5) No discrete graphics? If I ever want to game, say from bootcamp or Linux (or even in Mac OS) I can basically forget about it. There's also no CUDA/OpenCL support, so I couldn't really work with those technologies without doing something pretty exotic (external graphics card). For the price, it seems like I should get a switchable graphics card (wouldn't detract from battery life, because it'd be off most of the time).

6) Grid keyboard. I can't type on these things at the rate I normally do. I type at ~90WPM.. On a grid keyboard, I feel like I'm 6 years old again..

7) Seems out of place.. If the fully loaded MacBook Air is almost $1900, isn't the moderately loaded MacBook Pro only $2200? For $300 more you get a considerably more powerful machine, although not conforming to the ultrabook spec? I think that might be closer to what I'd be looking for, and I have considered a MBP, but the cost seems outrageous.. It's basically twice the price of competing Windows-based laptops. You're paying for the convenience to run Mac OS X easily? I don't mind the setup time to get it to run on a non-Apple branded laptop.

I just picked one up last week and think it's great! I installed Parallels and Windows XP to run Quicken and some old billing software that will only run on XP. I could also install Windows 7 and/or 8 if I wanted. It's extremely portable, solid, and can sit in standby for weeks at a time,

That is amazing.. I really wish the price were lower, and I would buy one just as a travel device. It would replace my iPad in my bag for sure as it weighs damn near the same amount. But the cost.. ugh..

then be up and ready to go in 2 seconds. The instant on aspect is huge. Yes, the new Win ultras claim to do that, too, but I'm not convinced they've worked out the kinks yet.

I know Windows 8 boots via EFI in about 2-3 seconds. Windows 7 EFI/GPT boots in about 4. Boot time to me is meaningless though as I never shut down the computer - I always hibernate.

I do have a friend who has a Lenovo Yoga and loves it, and it does look impressive, so that could be an option. Not sure you can get that much RAM, though, plus I just wonder if she'll still love it in a few years. Most Windows computers I've had, I've hated in the second year of ownership.

Looking at the Yoga, I'd just as soon buy the MacBook Air... :chuckles: Honestly, Apple seems like the better deal. Let's see..

Yeah certainly, the MacBook Air is vastly superior to the Lenovo Yoga, without question - in all respects actually. There's no reason to buy the Yoga over the Air, even if you're going to be using Windows 99% of the time. Air has a better display, better battery, comes with legit Mac OS X, and has more upgrade options with a better available warranty (which both devices require, imo). The Yoga has the rotating touchscreen though, which is cool, but something I'd only use for development.

 

[MRMsix6]

I don't have any laptop recommendations, but http://slickdeals.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=9 is a great place to find specials going on. There's usually a few laptops in there.

There's actually a pretty good deal on these: http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/ideapad/y-series/y410p/?AID=10383968&PID=4485850&SID=jLLDatxZEeKQ5IqOGUSK0g0_YVba3_0_0_0&CJURL=http%3A%2F%2Fshop.lenovo.com%2Fus%2Fen%2Flaptops%2Fideapad%2Fy-series%2Fy410p%2F&PUBNAME=Slickdeals+LLC&NID=CJ

pros
- new Haswell i7 (slight improvement over Ivy Bridge in efficiency)
- OS SSD
- 1tb HD
- discrete GPU

cons
- heavy as fuck (5.5lbs)
- glossy screen
- only 8gb ram

probably not what you're looking for, but the $899 one is a good deal regardless. It's going to be hard to find a laptop with a discrete gpu and HDD that isn't relatively heavy (not to mention hot)

 

[gourimoko]

I don't have any laptop recommendations, but http://slickdeals.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=9 is a great place to find specials going on. There's usually a few laptops in there.

There's actually a pretty good deal on these: http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/ideapad/y-series/y410p/?AID=10383968&PID=4485850&SID=jLLDatxZEeKQ5IqOGUSK0g0_YVba3_0_0_0&CJURL=http%3A%2F%2Fshop.lenovo.com%2Fus%2Fen%2Flaptops%2Fideapad%2Fy-series%2Fy410p%2F&PUBNAME=Slickdeals+LLC&NID=CJ

pros
- new Haswell i7 (slight improvement over Ivy Bridge in efficiency)
- OS SSD
- 1tb HD
- discrete GPU

cons
- heavy as fuck (5.5lbs)
- glossy screen
- only 8gb ram

probably not what you're looking for, but the $899 one is a good deal regardless. It's going to be hard to find a laptop with a discrete gpu and HDD that isn't relatively heavy (not to mention hot)

Indeed, but if the motherboard supports the switchable graphics interface then the GPU can use PCI Express Hot-Swapping and literally shut itself off when not in use..

But you got me thinking about the Haswell though... hrmm..

 

[jvlgato]

Sorry, I misunderstood your storage requirements. I'd agree the Air and any Ultrabook don't fit your needs. I use my Air exclusively as a portable device, and am on and off of it throughout the day while away from home. It's perfect for me.

The people I know and respect who use Windows have usually gone with Lenovo, so I'd agree on that. I can't really make a specific recommendation, though. I used to use Dell regularly, but I've had problems with them. Sorry I couldn't help more!

 

[CornerThree]

Did you buy anything? I think I just want to buy an apple this time and I'm torn between buying the midrange i7 Mini($799), the lower spec'd haswell 13" Air(1049 plus 100$ coupon bonus) or the 13" Pro($999 w/ $100 coupon bonus). I hear that the pro's will be refreshed soon, and probably the mini as well. Supposedly the Haswell graphics solution is way better than the Ivy bridge? I also assume I can add an SSD to the Pro myself at some point, or am I dreaming? Their option to buy the SSD is crazy, and I can move a 128 from another PC I have. there's also the 13" base retina for 1399.

I'm assuming it's easy to install win 8(for a couple windows8 games I play), and can probably make all this happen on only 128gb of hard drive? I would put very few programs and no media on it.

This doesn't necessarily need to be portable for me, so I'm pretty conflicted. I dunno if I want to wait on the 13" macbook refresh but it seems like that's the sweet spot for apple(price, build quality). These things hold their value really well, which is why I'm not opposed to paying the apple premium.

Also don't want to buy something and then have them immediately drop a new, better model, however.

 

[gourimoko]

Did you buy anything? I think I just want to buy an apple this time and I'm torn between buying the midrange i7 Mini($799), the lower spec'd haswell 13" Air(1049 plus 100$ coupon bonus) or the 13" Pro($999 w/ $100 coupon bonus). I hear that the pro's will be refreshed soon, and probably the mini as well. Supposedly the Haswell graphics solution is way better than the Ivy bridge? I also assume I can add an SSD to the Pro myself at some point, or am I dreaming? Their option to buy the SSD is crazy, and I can move a 128 from another PC I have. there's also the 13" base retina for 1399.

I'm assuming it's easy to install win 8(for a couple windows8 games I play), and can probably make all this happen on only 128gb of hard drive? I would put very few programs and no media on it.

This doesn't necessarily need to be portable for me, so I'm pretty conflicted. I dunno if I want to wait on the 13" macbook refresh but it seems like that's the sweet spot for apple(price, build quality). These things hold their value really well, which is why I'm not opposed to paying the apple premium.

Also don't want to buy something and then have them immediately drop a new, better model, however.

Yes, I did ultimately buy the IdeaPad Y510p; as it was the biggest bang for the buck. It's an i7 4200MQ Haswell @ 2.4/3.4ghz with 16GB RAM and Dual (SLI) Nvidia GeForce 750M graphics cards (one is removable in an 'ultra-bay' slot). It comes with a 24GB SSD (used as a cache) and a 1TB HDD.

The screen is considered one of the best in the mid to upper-range, only the retina and RGB LED's on the XPS's are generally thought to be better. It also sports a matte finish over the screen, so even in sunlight it is bright with very high contrast and detail.

However, it has it's faults.

1) No touchscreen. As a developer, this is somewhat annoying as I'd like to develop touch-enabled metro apps.
2) Bevel is glossy. Fingerprints everywhere. I never thought this would be an issue, but you really have to clean this thing or it looks a mess.
2a) The top area of the bevel is at least 2 inches (no lie) of just black plastic. It's ridiculously too large making the laptop seem strangely disproportionate. It's very noticeable, at all times really.. It's like, wtf is up with this bevel?
3) The keyboard is a hybrid between a grid layout and a traditional layout which can be somewhat confusing.
4) The numeric pad, which is available (a must for me) is misaligned. Who the fuck thought that was a good idea?
5) The touchpad is *unusable* for any type of work. Forget it. It's useless. You absolutely need a mouse if you're going to be doing any time of design work.

6) Windows 8. It's horrible, and without touchscreen it's just AWFUL. You need to go the extra-mile to reconfigure it to somewhat resemble Windows 7; otherwise, you'll spend 4-5 clicks for something that used to be just one or two.

7) Windows 8. It takes up a good chunk of your usable space, and also has several inaccessible partitions as a part of its GPT disk layout.
8) Lenovo doesn't include a recovery disk, because Microsoft doesn't issue you a product key - it's stored in the PC's UEFI Firmware. So you have to write your own, which blows if you didn't get the dvd writer add-on and just opted for the graphics card (you can use a virtual dvd-r, but still).

9) The GPU interaction (doesn't use Optimus) is confusing. You have 3 GPU's, but the Intel HD GPU isn't trivial to enable manually.

10) Did I mention Windows 8? Getting Windows 7 installed on this laptop is a pain in the ASS. You really should do it immediately after you receive the laptop by first shrinking the OS partition, then disk imaging all the partitions, then completely repartitioning the disk (still use GPT), then install Windows 7, then restore the partitions from before, then reinstall the Windows 8 BCD. Did I mention it was a pain in the ass?


Now, concerning your options - if you want a Mac I totally understand, I run Mac OS X on my desktop and I never really want to reboot into Windows; I only do so when I have no choice. Just understand that Macbooks (until you reach the insanely priced MBPs) are fairly underpowered. If you will be using Windows for a majority of the time, I just couldn't recommend buying a Macbook (unless you had the $$$ for an MBP). Personally, I would've liked a high-end MacBook Pro but an equivalent model to what I got would've cost me over $2,500 and I couldn't justify doubling the price just for the convenience of having Mac OS X pre-installed.. I can install it myself.

 

[CornerThree]

I have win 8 and it really doesn't bother me that much. I understand its faults though.

I do like the swapppable bays on the lenovo and had thought about that

 

[gourimoko]

I have win 8 and it really doesn't bother me that much. I understand its faults though.

I suppose it depends on how you've come to use it. I started using Windows 8 on a touchscreen, so to go to using a mouse is akin to using a mouse on an iPad. It seems silly and out of place. And the Desktop is basically an afterthought. Whoever thought tucking the Desktop away like that was a good idea was a fucking moron. Either get rid of it and do something completely different, or embrace it, but don't have two distinct interfaces with basically incompatible applications.

I do like the swapppable bays and had thought about that

The swappable bays are great. In the IdeaPad (or any Lenovo laptop) everything is configurable *after* you buy it. The SSD slot is an mSATA card, so it's fully upgradeable; just pop it out and put another in. This way you can have 2 hard drives while still having your ultrabay slot for either a dvd, an extra fan, an extra (3rd) hard drive, or an SLI graphics card. The specs and raw horsepower are unbeatable at the price point, but there are some design flaws like those I mentioned above.

Overall, I like the machine, and I'm very pleased.

p.s.
Re: Windows 8. It's cool for Surface tablets. I think the Surface Pro is an insanely awesome machine (while the RT makes little sense at all, whatsoever, total waste of money). But on the desktop, the Metro interface just doesn't work well.

 

[CornerThree]

I think the non usable touchpad would be a severe neg for me, and a nonstarter basically. I'm gonna go look at the stuff at best buy next week and then order online

 

[CornerThree]

I also feel like I keep getting screwed on Windows hardware. Had an HP 17" that was solid until it weant molten. My wife had this toshiba that was good but it had a junky touchpad. I got an HP Envy, back when that meant something(or so i thought). Touchpad was progressively junkier, then it had conflicts with games. Got an HP Envy X2 instead of an ipad4, then it couldn't run youtube vids and i sold it at a loss. Obviously i deserve to get fucked for buying HP but i think I'd still be happy if i just bought Apple the first time.

RE Msata...the Envy was supposedly compatible with that and i was going to get one til I realized the connector was extra. Something like 150$ for a cable that connected to the board.

 

[gourimoko]

I also feel like I keep getting screwed on Windows hardware. Had an HP 17" that was solid until it weant molten. My wife had this toshiba that was good but it had a junky touchpad. I got an HP Envy, back when that meant something(or so i thought). Touchpad was progressively junkier, then it had conflicts with games. Got an HP Envy X2 instead of an ipad4, then it couldn't run youtube vids and i sold it at a loss. Obviously i deserve to get fucked for buying HP but i think I'd still be happy if i just bought Apple the first time.

Apple hardware is okay, it's just underpowered and extremely overpriced. Not meant for gaming at all (unless you get the MBP which comes with a 650M IIRC; the new ones will have Haswell and 750M).

RE Msata...the Envy was supposedly compatible with that and i was going to get one til I realized the connector was extra. Something like 150$ for a cable that connected to the board.

Yeah, it really pays to do your research first. There is an Asus laptop available (can't remember the model number), it's the other laptop that I considered purchasing and the touchpad is great. But if the laptop has an msata drive already in it, you should be good to go replacing it with something else.

 

[CornerThree]

2a) The top area of the bevel is at least 2 inches (no lie) of just black plastic. It's ridiculously too large making the laptop seem strangely disproportionate. It's very noticeable, at all times really.. It's like, wtf is up with this bevel?

goddamn, I was checking that model out and i see what you're talking about. holy shit that's fucking awful.