Carmelo Anthony

[Cratylus]

If we can show Melo and LeBron a path for them to get max money and play alongside Kyrie/Dion/Wiggins, the only thing that would hold us back would be us being "Cleveland."

That's a disingenuous claim. There are several other obstacles that probably would be perceived by that duo as things that "hold us back", namely:

1. A team that did not make the playoffs last season, or the season before that, or the season before that... or the season before THAT.
2. The lack of a veteran bench
3. A rookie head coach with zero NBA experience
4. An owner who, despite being willing to spend, apparently is not held in high regard around the league and who has garnered a reputation as a meddler
5. An already tense and awkward "relationship" with one of the two players stemming from the events of Summer of 2010 (i.e., "the Decision" and "the Comic Sans Manifesto")

We have a lot more to overcome with those two than simply being "Cleveland".

 

[gourimoko]

We have $37 million in guaranteed contracts (counting Delly's deal)... the cap will be ~$63 million. The #1 pick will cost us another $5ish million. We'll have enough to offer LeBron a max deal. We would have to do a sign and trade for Melo, or bribe a team or two to take on a lot of salary.

1) Why are you counting Delly's deal? The whole point is that he wouldn't be brought back, why would we need him? Wiggins/LeBron automatically makes Waiters a 6th man
.
2) We have $32M in guaranteed contracts plus the #1 ~= $38M (25.2M in space)

3) Tristan/AV/Jack can be traded with a protected first rounder to open up $11.7M (just counting guaranteed salary) giving us roughly $36.9M.
(Just so we're on the same page, this is easily done. Pairing Tristan with Jack should make his contract tradeable as Tristan has value. If there were any problems, adding in a pick basically ensures a trade could be made. Trading AV is easily done as his contract has immense value)

LeBron's max is 35% of the cap = $22M
Melo's max (without S&T) = $22M

We could do one of two things; first, dump Karasev and Zeller giving us $40M in cap (giving both Melo and LBJ $20M/yr); or the easier and more obvious choice would be to simply S&T Melo from New York.

Either way, we can easily have enough room to sign both because the pieces we'd need to move are all valuable and on reasonable contracts (except Jack). We have plenty of draft picks to sweeten deals to move salaries. And again, as you said, since Melo's deal would likely be a S&T anyway, then all of this becomes quite a bit easier to do.

 

[gourimoko]

That's a disingenuous claim.

You think I'm being disingenuous?

There are several other obstacles that probably would be perceived by that duo as things that "hold us back", namely:'

1. A team that did not make the playoffs last season, or the season before that, or the season before that... or the season before THAT.

The Heat had no roster in 2009-10. They had no one that could help other than Wade. That's the point. These guys went to the place that showed the ability to make big changes and big moves. We're in a position to do something very similar by bringing 3 superstars together in a sustainable manner.

2. The lack of a veteran bench

Miami's bench the first two years was horrible. They won a title. What Miami lacked was youth. Melo and Bron are the veterans. Our bench would be immediately better than anything Miami has ever had.

Kyrie/Wiggins/LeBron/Melo/X with Waiters/Karasev/Bennett/Zeller coming of the bench. The following year we could bring in additional talent in both the draft, and ring-chasers in free agency.

3. A rookie head coach with zero NBA experience

Agreed. 100%.

4. An owner who, despite being willing to spend, apparently is not held in high regard around the league and who has garnered a reputation as a meddler

Agreed. But also an owner who has avoided going over the cap, who has significant sway with other owners, and who owns a franchise that cannot go into the repeater tax prior to the new CBA in 2017.

5. An already tense and awkward "relationship" with one of the two players stemming from the events of Summer of 2010 (i.e., "the Decision" and "the Comic Sans Manifesto")

I don't want to speak about their relationship to be honest. No one knows what it is... I'm not one who believes they hold a grudge against one another, because I personally believe if Gilbert held a grudge against James he wouldn't be pursuing him; there are other ways to win the title as the Mavericks and Spurs have both demonstrated.

We have a lot more to overcome with those two than simply being "Cleveland".

Again, what might be getting missed is that if Melo and LeBron wish to play together, there are few teams that can make that duo possible. Cleveland is one of the only teams (other than Miami) that can make it happen. The Clippers, Rockets and Warriors cannot. Neither can the Knicks. Miami could potentially trade Bosh to New York or try to work out a deal to somehow bring Melo to Miami assuming Bosh were to leave. But I think it's much more difficult contractually and financially to make that happen without them making significant sacrifices.

Cleveland is in a much better position to compete for the next 3-5 years than Miami is no matter what Miami does. I base that on Wade's health, and the lack of support LeBron received throughout the season and especially in the playoffs. I also believe Bosh is 100% gone. If you accept those rather fair assumptions then the conclusion naturally follows.

Again, I'm not saying it's a done deal by any means; I'm simply saying it is a viable endgame that we should be pursuing immediately.

 

[Triumph36]

People in Chicago are convinced he is coming here. Fans, media and players.

We'll see though. The possibility of him joining LeBron in Cleveland seem really slim to me.

Melo is a perfect fit in Chicago. They have a defensive scheme to cover up his warts and he'll provide a much needed scoring punch.

LeBron doesn't need another star player here. He needs Cleveland's young players to play to their potential and for the FO to then bring in quality role players to solidify the team. There's plenty of talent to win and win big, especially with the addition of #1. While some people dream about Melo and LBJ here, I really don't think that is necessary. Maybe I'm in the minority on that.

simmons mentioned how chicago could make a run at both melo and afflalo to trot out a starting lineup of rose/afflalo/melo/gibson/noah. that would be so ridiculous, esp with thibbs as head coach. it'd require quite a bit of luck on chicago's part not just to pull off the moves but also to stay healthy (cough rose cough) but they'd have to be favorites in the east. i'd be real interested to see just what thibs could do with that kind of team on both ends of the floor.

 

[daytripper]

Honestly the freakin' Wizards have a better shot at Melo than we do. At least they made the playoffs last year and are located close to his hometown of Baltimore. Even if Bron comes back, which I also highly doubt, still don't see Melo coming to Cleveland.

Who knows where he ends up..could be Chi, Houston, Mia, or someplace out of left field like Dallas or Boston. My guess Cleveland is somewhere near the very bottom of his list.

 

[gourimoko]

Honestly the freakin' Wizards have a better shot at Melo than we do. At least they made the playoffs last year and are located close to his hometown of Baltimore. Even if Bron comes back, which I also highly doubt, still don't see Melo coming to Cleveland.

Who knows where he ends up..could be Chi, Houston, Mia, or someplace out of left field like Dallas or Boston. My guess Cleveland is somewhere near the very bottom of his list.

This is Melo's last shot at a title. If he can join LeBron, he will. He's not 25-26 years old anymore. He just turned 30 years old, and trust me when I say that when you turn 30, you start asking yourself lots of questions about what you've accomplished. Reality is surely setting in that this is probably his last big contract, and maybe the last contract period.

He's going to want as much money as possible while having the best chance at winning a title. If he stays in the East, he can pair up with Wall/Beal, Rose (missed 2 seasons)/Noah, or try to make a run at Irving/Waiters(=>Beal)/Wiggins and LeBron James.

Dunno if you been watching the news recently, but we just won the first pick in the deepest draft since 2003. We'll be better than the Wizards no matter what happens next season.

 

[Mdog1]

Honestly the freakin' Wizards have a better shot at Melo than we do. At least they made the playoffs last year and are located close to his hometown of Baltimore. Even if Bron comes back, which I also highly doubt, still don't see Melo coming to Cleveland.

Who knows where he ends up..could be Chi, Houston, Mia, or someplace out of left field like Dallas or Boston. My guess Cleveland is somewhere near the very bottom of his list.

Cleveland without LeBron, bottom of the list, Cleveland with LeBron near the top.

Also people just think any player is going to go to Chicago because they are Chicago. Rose has been hurt nearly half his career. Not tiny injuries, serious season ending ones. Nobody knows if he will ever be the player he was, and imo if you want a ring you don't go to a situation with so much uncertainty.

Houston I could see though for sure if they can make the moves they need to.

 

[Surge]

We'll be better than the Wizards no matter what happens next season.

I feel a bet coming on...

 

[gourimoko]

Cleveland without LeBron, bottom of the list, Cleveland with LeBron near the top.

Also people just think any player is going to go to Chicago because they are Chicago. Rose has been hurt nearly half his career. Not tiny injuries, serious season ending ones. Nobody knows if he will ever be the player he was, and imo if you want a ring you don't go to a situation with so much uncertainty.

Houston I could see though for sure if they can make the moves they need to.

Totally agree with this post. I'm not saying Melo without LeBron as I think it's unlikely (but you still go for it). I'm saying we go after both, hard, on July 1st. Bring them both in simultaneously. Explain to them the immense talent level that we have and let them understand that they'd be paired with one hell of a backcourt in Irving/Wiggins and Waiters as 6th man.

If we can toss them both $20M/yr, I'm not seeing them saying no to playing with one another even if the fucking river caught fire.. again.

 

[gourimoko]

I feel a bet coming on...

You damn straight...

$100 donation to RCF says Cavaliers are better than the Wizards next season.

Go Cavs!

 

[Mdog1]

Totally agree with this post. I'm not saying Melo without LeBron as I think it's unlikely (but you still go for it). I'm saying we go after both, hard, on July 1st. Bring them both in simultaneously. Explain to them the immense talent level that we have and let them understand that they'd be paired with one hell of a backcourt in Irving/Wiggins and Waiters as 6th man.

If we can toss them both $20M/yr, I'm not seeing them saying no to playing with one another even if the fucking river caught fire.. again.

It would take a Herculean effort to pull off on Griffs part, but it could happen that we can get enough cap space. The only really negative asset we have is Jack, and honestly he isn't THAT bad. I am sure a team like San Antonio would want him (example, not sure their backup PG situation honestly), if we threw them something like a couple of seconds.

If we believe Jackson would want to do a S&T then we should be going hard for Thorton. Throw in a pick if we have to, with heavy protection of course.

I believe that a S&T of Thorton if we could get rid of TT would work financially, although I could be wrong. If I am not then

Irving/Waiters
Wiggins/Waiters
James/Melo
Melo/Bennett
Andy/Zeller

Tell me that isn't the best team in the NBA.

Use the Memphis pick, and the Miami pick as sweetners for NY to accept the trade, as well as any other picks we have to to get it done.

 

[gourimoko]

We should be able to create up to $40M in cap space by moving AV (his contract itself makes this easy) and a package of TT/Jack. That's $20M for each of James/Melo, without an S&T. That's $2M shy of LBJ's full max. This is why I've said only Cleveland can really sign both players without any problems or requiring the cooperation of New York or Miami.

But again, I think an S&T would be far more advantageous for New York, Melo, James, and the Cavaliers so it's surely the way to go.

p.s.
We should have a much easier time moving those players than Houston has of moving Jeremy Lin and Asik.

EDIT: To actually get to that $40M in cap, we'd also need to dump Karasev/Zeller since we are also bringing in the first overall pick. I think trading both of these guys is pretty easy, but that would be left up to LeBron and Melo's salary flexibility.

 

[Mdog1]

We should be able to easily create up to $43M in cap space by moving AV (his contract itself makes this easy) and a package of TT/Jack. That's $21.5M for each of James/Melo, without an S&T. That's just shy of LBJ's full max anyway. This is why I've said only Cleveland can really sign both players without any problems or requiring the cooperation of New York or Miami.

But again, I think an S&T would be far more advantageous for New York, Melo, James, and the Cavaliers so it's surely the way to go.

p.s.
We should have a much easier time moving those three players than Houston has of moving Jeremy Lin and Asik.

My big point is I would like to keep AV, therefore requiring a S&T, which Thorton would be required for over Jack because he is expiring. It is a much more advantageous position for us. Obviously if it has to happen you thank Varejao for his years, but I would love to see him and LeBron again, and to see him get a ring or five.

 

[gourimoko]

My big point is I would like to keep AV, therefore requiring a S&T, which Thorton would be required for over Jack because he is expiring. It is a much more advantageous position for us. Obviously if it has to happen you thank Varejao for his years, but I would love to see him and LeBron again, and to see him get a ring or five.

I totally agree. I think you do an S&T in 99% of situations.

But having the ability to sign both players outright gives us immense leverage in any negotiations with New York so that they cannot make outlandish demands (like unprotected first rounders, etc). In such a situation, Jackson would need to determine exactly how much he can get out of Cleveland once Melo's made his decision. But we minimize what we give up in trade by clearing some cap space and removing players that shouldn't be here anyway (TT/Jack).

 

[Len]

I kind of don't understand this situation. Why can't we just out right sign both Melo and Lebron? Wouldn't a sign and trade eliminate talent from our roster? Wouldn't it be in their best interest to just sign for 20 mil a year outright instead of taking away from the teams bench players? Maybe I'm off with my thoughts but I was thinking, why wouldn't they just sign and tell the Heat and the Knicks to just deal with it.