Cavs Pre-Season Game Thread

[AllforOne]

I don’t get the Pangos signing at all. Why did we give him guaranteed money? He’s awful! Weren’t we just bidding against ourselves?

With all due respect, if you don't get it at all, then you didn't pay a bit of attention to last season.

The Cavs had three point guards on the roster: Garland, Exum, and Delly. Then Delly went down with a concussion in the preseason, one that cost him most of the 20-21 campaign. Then Exum went down with yet another injury in the sixth game of the season. So the year had barely started, and the Cavs were down to one PG (and one with his own injury concerns).

Maybe you don't remember guys like Damyean Dotson and Brodric Thomas getting significant time at the point last season. Koby does. That's why he traded for Rubio. That's why he signed Pangos. He does not want another season with nobody available to run the point -- especially with Mobley now in the fold.

If your specific concern is why they signed Pangos as opposed to some other point guard, then consider that the list of guys who check all these boxes:

- Proven PG with the ability to run an offense
- Proven outside shooter (he's shot .417 from three in his international career; don't get too wrapped up in a couple of preseason games)
- Willing to take a role as the clear #3 PG on the roster (i.e., not gonna get much run unless somebody gets hurt)
- Willing to work for cheap (the Cavs are near the luxury tax line and didn't have much money available)

... is a very short list indeed.

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

If we're being honest, Mobley looked bad in the last preseason game. Nothing to be alarmed about, of course - he just doesn't know how to play NBA basketball yet. The whole season will probably be a roller coaster ride.

However, it's a fact that offensively, he's something of an awkward tweener right now who won't help us win many games. To me it's clear as day that he's a 5 in the modern NBA, but he has a long way to go until he can play that position effectively as a starter. On BOTH sides of the ball.

That's not a problem – it's something you expect with a guy like him. The NBA is a tough environment for young bigs, particularly finesse guys.

What IS a problem is that he most definitely can't play the 4 either in his current form, not if we're trying to win. Forget the gym videos, Mobley does not have a functional NBA 3pt shot at this point.

I'd like to start him but I'm afraid it just won't work. He'll keep drifting to the middle since he's most comfortable there, but we all know that Allen's defender is a permanent resident of the paint. We can't play two non-shooting centers at the same time.

The Cavs will not be contenders for the NBA Finals until Mobley becomes one of the best players in the league. He will be playing starters' minutes this year. The clock is ticking and the Cavs need to develop him as quickly as possible. If his body holds up he'll play as many minutes as anybody and should improve by leaps and bounds. The coaches rave about his intelligence and the physical package is evident.

I disagree that he can't play the 4. He's great on the defensive end between blocking or altering shots, getting steals, protecting the rim, and grabbing defensive boards to prevent second shot opportunities.

On the offensive end he could be a pick-and-roll nightmare with his length and athleticism rolling to the basket for a lob. Not to mention offensive boards and his passing ability. He's not a 3-point shooter yet, but we have a lot of guys who can knock down 3's. Just look at the percentages this pre-season.

 

[KilgoreTrout]

With all due respect, if you don't get it at all, then you didn't pay a bit of attention to last season.

The Cavs had three point guards on the roster: Garland, Exum, and Delly. Then Delly went down with a concussion in the preseason, one that cost him most of the 20-21 campaign. Then Exum went down with yet another injury in the sixth game of the season. So the year had barely started, and the Cavs were down to one PG (and one with his own injury concerns).

Maybe you don't remember guys like Damyean Dotson and Brodric Thomas getting significant time at the point last season. Koby does. That's why he traded for Rubio. That's why he signed Pangos. He does not want another season with nobody available to run the point -- especially with Mobley now in the fold.

If your specific concern is why they signed Pangos as opposed to some other point guard, then consider that the list of guys who check all these boxes:

- Proven PG with the ability to run an offense
- Proven outside shooter (he's shot .417 from three in his international career; don't get too wrapped up in a couple of preseason games)
- Willing to take a role as the clear #3 PG on the roster (i.e., not gonna get much run unless somebody gets hurt)
- Willing to work for cheap (the Cavs are near the luxury tax line and didn't have much money available)

... is a very short list indeed.

Informative. Thank you.

 

[Futuredome]

The Cavs will not be contenders for the NBA Finals until Mobley becomes one of the best players in the league. He will be playing starters' minutes this year. The clock is ticking and the Cavs need to develop him as quickly as possible. If his body holds up he'll play as many minutes as anybody and should improve by leaps and bounds. The coaches rave about his intelligence and the physical package is evident.

I disagree that he can't play the 4. He's great on the defensive end between blocking or altering shots, getting steals, protecting the rim, and grabbing defensive boards to prevent second shot opportunities.

On the offensive end he could be a pick-and-roll nightmare with his length and athleticism rolling to the basket for a lob. Not to mention offensive boards and his passing ability. He's not a 3-point shooter yet, but we have a lot of guys who can knock down 3's. Just look at the percentages this pre-season.

4 is Mobley's endgame. People can't see it because they can't project. His body type just screams it.

 

[Heat Check]

4 is Mobley's endgame. People can't see it because they can't project. His body type just screams it.

Nah. The best case for him is a modern NBA center. Mobile, skilled, able to protect the rim and switch out to the perimeter.

However, what people seem to be ignoring waaayyy too much is the 3pt shot. Whether he plays the 5, the 4 or the 3, he needs it. Currently, he has no shot and the rest of the league knows it. This will be exploited from day one and it will make things more difficult for the guys he's sharing the court with.

That's just a reality, and it's also why playing Mobley with Allen and Okoro is really problematic. We need shooting out there, period.

There's a tendency among fans to treat the 3pt shot like it's just a question of reps and time – you know, "Once he gets an outside shot, he'll be unstoppable'. Well, it's not. These days it's a premium skill in the league, and being a consistent outside shooter in real NBA games is hard. Becoming one is even harder.

IMO this is the #1 area of development for Mobley. If he gets a dependable shot, it will open up his whole game.

If he doesn't, it puts a ceiling on him and there's a danger he'll end up a specialist.

 

[rcj47]

Nah. The best case for him is a modern NBA center. Mobile, skilled, able to protect the rim and switch out to the perimeter.

However, what people seem to be ignoring waaayyy too much is the 3pt shot. Whether he plays the 5, the 4 or the 3, he needs it. Currently, he has no shot and the rest of the league knows it. This will be exploited from day one and it will make things more difficult for the guys he's sharing the court with.

That's just a reality, and it's also why playing Mobley with Allen and Okoro is really problematic. We need shooting out there, period.

There's a tendency among fans to treat the 3pt shot like it's just a question of reps and time – you know, "Once he gets an outside shot, he'll be unstoppable'. Well, it's not. These days it's a premium skill in the league, and being a consistent outside shooter in real NBA games is hard. Becoming one is even harder.

IMO this is the #1 area of development for Mobley. If he gets a dependable shot, it will open up his whole game.

If he doesn't, it puts a ceiling on him and there's a danger he'll end up a specialist.

I also see him as a center unless and until he has a decent shot from distance, and one where he shoots decent volume. Right now - based on what he has done in 1 year of college he looks like a rim runner type. He has no post moves or any type of hook shot or anything. You can see him struggle in the preseason when he got the ball in the post trying to figure out how to get the ball to the rim - lots of turning this way and that and then tossing something up.

To me this is where the GM makes has me again scratching my head. If the Cavs see him as a PF then why get Markkanen? If they see Mobley as a center then why the need to pay Allen? It is hilarious to me that JBB thinks the 7 foot tall Markkanen is a SF in any way. Sounds more like we have to find minutes for the GM's recent trade.

I like Mobley but feel he is a project right now offensively. I would love him to work out as a big time center for the Cavs. But in the early going of his career I think he needs a legit floor general PG playing with him at least for development purposes (and to help the overall offense).

I'm not sold on Garland yet to do that. I have no doubt Garland has the quickness to do the drive and dish game. What I haven't seen is the floor awareness. Little things like hitting a big in the post as soon as he is set instead of dribbling and thinking about it. This lessens the effectiveness of your bigs scoring wise.

So I agree adding rookie and raw Mobley to the mix in the starting unit really doesn't give confidence we are gong to improve on one of the worst offenses in the league last year. There's a chance even that that the second unit is better offenisvely that the first - that is if JBB doesn't decide to pencil in guys like Stevens and Osman.

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

Nah. The best case for him is a modern NBA center. Mobile, skilled, able to protect the rim and switch out to the perimeter.

However, what people seem to be ignoring waaayyy too much is the 3pt shot. Whether he plays the 5, the 4 or the 3, he needs it. Currently, he has no shot and the rest of the league knows it. This will be exploited from day one and it will make things more difficult for the guys he's sharing the court with.

That's just a reality, and it's also why playing Mobley with Allen and Okoro is really problematic. We need shooting out there, period.

There's a tendency among fans to treat the 3pt shot like it's just a question of reps and time – you know, "Once he gets an outside shot, he'll be unstoppable'. Well, it's not. These days it's a premium skill in the league, and being a consistent outside shooter in real NBA games is hard. Becoming one is even harder.

IMO this is the #1 area of development for Mobley. If he gets a dependable shot, it will open up his whole game.

If he doesn't, it puts a ceiling on him and there's a danger he'll end up a specialist.

You mean like Anthony Davis is a specialist?

Davis is a power forward who for his career is averaging 1.6 three-point attempts per game and making 31% of them. That comes out to about one made 3-point shot every two games.

His second and third years he combined to go 3-for-21 from deep, but somehow made the All-Star team both years. So to say "whether [Mobley] plays the 5, the 4, or the 3, he needs [the 3-point shot]", isn't correct. Joel Embiid, a center, averages 3.5 shots from deep a game and makes 33% of them, so he makes about one per game. He's been an All-Star four years in a row.

The guy I've seen Mobley compared to the most is Chris Bosh (6'11", 235), who averaged 1.0 three-point attempts per game in his career. Bosh managed to make the All-Star team 11 times despite rarely putting up a 3. Nobody called him a specialist.

The Cavs just gave Jared Allen a $100 million contract. That's pretty good money for a specialist.

 

[CavsKermit]

Nah. The best case for him is a modern NBA center. Mobile, skilled, able to protect the rim and switch out to the perimeter.

However, what people seem to be ignoring waaayyy too much is the 3pt shot. Whether he plays the 5, the 4 or the 3, he needs it. Currently, he has no shot and the rest of the league knows it. This will be exploited from day one and it will make things more difficult for the guys he's sharing the court with.

That's just a reality, and it's also why playing Mobley with Allen and Okoro is really problematic. We need shooting out there, period.

There's a tendency among fans to treat the 3pt shot like it's just a question of reps and time – you know, "Once he gets an outside shot, he'll be unstoppable'. Well, it's not. These days it's a premium skill in the league, and being a consistent outside shooter in real NBA games is hard. Becoming one is even harder.

IMO this is the #1 area of development for Mobley. If he gets a dependable shot, it will open up his whole game.

If he doesn't, it puts a ceiling on him and there's a danger he'll end up a specialist.

If he plays the 3 or 4, he needs range from 3. But centers don't need to be able to shoot from 3. So long as they can play away from the restricted area, you're spacing is fine. Mobley can play in space.

 

[Kouki]

To me this is where the GM makes has me again scratching my head. If the Cavs see him as a PF then why get Markkanen? If they see Mobley as a center then why the need to pay Allen? It is hilarious to me that JBB thinks the 7 foot tall Markkanen is a SF in any way. Sounds more like we have to find minutes for the GM's recent trade.

I like Mobley but feel he is a project right now offensively. I would love him to work out as a big time center for the Cavs. But in the early going of his career I think he needs a legit floor general PG playing with him at least for development purposes (and to help the overall offense).

You answered your own question. It doesn't matter what the roster construction looks like (to some extent obviously) when he's a rookie. Having both Markkanen and Allen can actually be seen as beneficial because Mobley gets experience playing with two big men with opposite styles.

You mean like Anthony Davis is a specialist?

Davis is a power forward who for his career is averaging 1.6 three-point attempts per game and making 31% of them. That comes out to about one made 3-point shot every two games.

His second and third years he combined to go 3-for-21 from deep, but somehow made the All-Star team both years. So to say "whether [Mobley] plays the 5, the 4, or the 3, he needs [the 3-point shot]", isn't correct. Joel Embiid, a center, averages 3.5 shots from deep a game and makes 33% of them, so he makes about one per game. He's been an All-Star four years in a row.

The guy I've seen Mobley compared to the most is Chris Bosh (6'11", 235), who averaged 1.0 three-point attempts per game in his career. Bosh managed to make the All-Star team 11 times despite rarely putting up a 3. Nobody called him a specialist.

The Cavs just gave Jared Allen a $100 million contract. That's pretty good money for a specialist.

If 82games is accurate then Davis has played more career minutes at C than PF, at least going back to 2015-2016.

The further you can push your shooting towards the center position the better, because it becomes more of a rarity and the modern NBA is so predicated on efficiency and spacing. If Mobley is a poor shooter at the 4, and you can't find a 5 with range to pair him with, you are set with two guys who can't stretch the floor that well. If Mobley is a poor shooter at the 5 then it's easier to find guys 1-4 who can shoot. So the better Mobley is at shooting and the more he can play the 5, the better the team potential is, unless you can pair him with a unicorn center (and even still, it would probably be a formality and Mobley would get lots of minutes at C).

All of the above of course is predicated on whether or not Mobley can withstand minutes at C. But the more he can, the more shooting we probably have, the most roster flexibility we probably have, etc etc.

Bosh also spent the a lot of minutes at C, and saying he averaged 1 3PA per game for his career is pretty disingenuous. As the NBA evolved, he shot 3's at much higher volume. 4.2 per game in his last season. Below is 3PA/minute. And, he did become more of a "specialist" when he was part of the big 3 in Miami. Just like Kevin Love became more of a "specialist" in Cleveland, though I think labeling guys as specialists or All Stars is partially semantics.

But I would say that Jarrett Allen is closer to a specialist than an All Star, too.

 

[Cavatt]

I think Mobley will be fine as a shooter. Not worried. Shot looks good. Just needs to get it sped up to NBA speed

 

[KilgoreTrout]

I also see him as a center unless and until he has a decent shot from distance, and one where he shoots decent volume. Right now - based on what he has done in 1 year of college he looks like a rim runner type. He has no post moves or any type of hook shot or anything. You can see him struggle in the preseason when he got the ball in the post trying to figure out how to get the ball to the rim - lots of turning this way and that and then tossing something up.

To me this is where the GM makes has me again scratching my head. If the Cavs see him as a PF then why get Markkanen? If they see Mobley as a center then why the need to pay Allen? It is hilarious to me that JBB thinks the 7 foot tall Markkanen is a SF in any way. Sounds more like we have to find minutes for the GM's recent trade.

I like Mobley but feel he is a project right now offensively. I would love him to work out as a big time center for the Cavs. But in the early going of his career I think he needs a legit floor general PG playing with him at least for development purposes (and to help the overall offense).

I'm not sold on Garland yet to do that. I have no doubt Garland has the quickness to do the drive and dish game. What I haven't seen is the floor awareness. Little things like hitting a big in the post as soon as he is set instead of dribbling and thinking about it. This lessens the effectiveness of your bigs scoring wise.

So I agree adding rookie and raw Mobley to the mix in the starting unit really doesn't give confidence we are gong to improve on one of the worst offenses in the league last year. There's a chance even that that the second unit is better offenisvely that the first - that is if JBB doesn't decide to pencil in guys like Stevens and Osman.

Bring in Olajuwon, to teach him back-to-the-basket moves! Bring in Kareem!

 

[Ozone]

I think Mobley will be fine as a shooter. Not worried. Shot looks good. Just needs to get it sped up to NBA speed

exactly . imo he plays the 3 and the 4 offensively not the 5 not early on anyway

 

[kidduck]

Nothing wrong with Mobleys' form on the 3.
He will develop it to an acceptable level but
I think you really have to ask yourself how
much you want him playing that far out from
the paint given his elite quickness and defensive
presence.

 

[WorldBExpensive]

Bring in Olajuwon, to teach him back-to-the-basket moves! Bring in Kareem!

Mobley with the sky hook!!

 

[KilgoreTrout]

Mobley with the sky hook!!

That’s what I’m TALKIN’ about!