Cavs vs. Warriors -- 2017 NBA Finals

[BooyaCS]

I see what you're saying but those players never faced a team this good. NOBODY has in the finals other than the Cavs and maybe the Sonics and Jazz who played the 96 and 97 Bulls.
Magic faced the '91 Bulls that had peak Jordan, but the '91 Bulls overall were not as stacked as this GS team is.

Jordan didn't face anything close to what the Cavs and LeBron are facing. If I had to rank the teams both Jordan and James faced in the finals, it would be as follows:

• 2017 Warriors
• 2016 Warriors
• 2015 Warriors
• 2014 Spurs
• 2007 Spurs
• '97 Jazz/'96 Sonics/'13 Spurs
• 2012 Thunder (inexperienced but more talented than any team Jordan ever faced in the finals)

'91 Lakers had a prime Magic but everything else was remarkably unremarkable. The Blazers were probably a better team that season. The Lakers were incredibly unathletic by elite team standards and it shows in the finals.

'92 Blazers were a good team but nothing remarkable.

'93 Suns actually had a lower SRS than the '93 Bulls. That Suns team was limited defensively. Barkley had a phenomenal offensive year but was poor defensively. Their defensive stopper was Dan Majerle. Lol! Compare Majerle to Kawhi or Iggy or Roberson or Kidd-Gilchrist or PG13 or Draymond or even a Smart or Crowder. '90s wing defense was an utter joke. Can you imagine the destruction LeBron would lay upon Majerle who would have to guard James 1 on 1 due to '90s rules that didn't allow zone defense or quasi zones (sagging off your man to defend an area was illegal so all the Bulls had to do was place a Bull outside the three point line and his man could not sag off of him and defend the area Jordan would go to work on the Majerles and Ehlos of the world).

Golden State hasn't played anyone in the Playoffs. If you think this team is stacked they haven't been tested. Every round they face an Injured team. I think it is 9 of the 11 series so far have been with a team injured?

They seemed to face a team in 2015 where every point guard was out at least 1 game (regular starter)
in 2016 some of the teams they faced were injured

This year portland didn't have Gobert. Utah (not sure but they probably shouldn't have been there) and the Spurs without Tony Parker or Kawhi Leonard.

The only real teams GS beat in the Playoffs were Houston and OKC. Everyone else had injuries.

 

[godfather]

Golden State hasn't played anyone in the Playoffs. If you think this team is stacked they haven't been tested. Every round they face an Injured team. I think it is 9 of the 11 series so far have been with a team injured?

They seemed to face a team in 2015 where every point guard was out at least 1 game (regular starter)
in 2016 some of the teams they faced were injured

This year portland didn't have Gobert. Utah (not sure but they probably shouldn't have been there) and the Spurs without Tony Parker or Kawhi Leonard.

The only real teams GS beat in the Playoffs were Houston and OKC. Everyone else had injuries.

Golden State would have beaten all those teams regardless. Maybe it wouldn't have been all sweeps. I think the first two would have been regardless. The Spurs IMO probably would have went 6 with them. I think they do win game 1 if Leonard doesn't get hurt. No way GS goes on the run they did, like that, with Leonard still in the game.

But Spurs weren't going to beat them. They had to play perfect, and they did in that game. But they don't have the firepower to sustain it.

Especially with Aldridge playing like ass, they had no chance.

I do think a team that would have beaten this Warriors team. And that's actually a team LeBron played on. His Miami Heat team.

With Bosh, LB, Battier, Wade and Chalmers. I think that team would dismantled the Warriors in 5 games. They would be more motivated to play a team like that, than any team they played. I don't think the Heat ever felt like there was a team close to their talent. But if they went against another power house super team like GS, I think we'd have seen them at another level of motivation to take them down.

I'll tell you why. They'd switch every single pick and roll, and they had the speed, length, and personnel to do it. They'd cause havoc against GS's offense.

I know those Heat teams didn't have the regular season success, but they played bored and unmotivated much like our Cav teams.

But defensively they were so fast and athletic. And they were pretty dynamic offensively. I think this GS team would get smoked by that team personally.

 

[lov3]

Durant's comments lately remind me of LeBron in 2011. Think he might buckle under pressure if they lose game 1 or 2

 

[amurderofcrows]

Pardon me but....Level of Competition facing Portland, Utah and SA?
Phuck. Not one of those Teams were at Full Strength.
Dubs get a Pass yet again, Cavs minus 11 Total Player Games (Love & Kyrie) Dubs win in Six is so awesome?
I'm not buying THAT Happy Horse-Shit.
Cavs Win and all I hear is Dre missed ONE Phucking Game. GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!

 

[Simon]

Game 7 of the finals from last year is on NBATV at 11 tonight.

 

[BooyaCS]

Golden State would have beaten all those teams regardless. Maybe it wouldn't have been all sweeps. I think the first two would have been regardless. The Spurs IMO probably would have went 6 with them. I think they do win game 1 if Leonard doesn't get hurt. No way GS goes on the run they did, like that, with Leonard still in the game.

But Spurs weren't going to beat them. They had to play perfect, and they did in that game. But they don't have the firepower to sustain it.

Especially with Aldridge playing like ass, they had no chance.

I do think a team that would have beaten this Warriors team. And that's actually a team LeBron played on. His Miami Heat team.

With Bosh, LB, Battier, Wade and Chalmers. I think that team would dismantled the Warriors in 5 games. They would be more motivated to play a team like that, than any team they played. I don't think the Heat ever felt like there was a team close to their talent. But if they went against another power house super team like GS, I think we'd have seen them at another level of motivation to take them down.

I'll tell you why. They'd switch every single pick and roll, and they had the speed, length, and personnel to do it. They'd cause havoc against GS's offense.

I know those Heat teams didn't have the regular season success, but they played bored and unmotivated much like our Cav teams.

But defensively they were so fast and athletic. And they were pretty dynamic offensively. I think this GS team would get smoked by that team personally.

Golden state is this perfect team yet the Bulls have the best record in NBA History at 72-10 plus the Title. 73-9 is meaningless. Also Durant is far overrated I don't get why Everyone thinks Golden State is unbeatable. Also San Antonio was winning with Kawhi in the game on a bum ankle it took Zaza stepping on his foot and injuring him to make the series a laugher

 

[Tornicade]

I see what you're saying but those players never faced a team this good. NOBODY has in the finals other than the Cavs and maybe the Sonics and Jazz who played the 96 and 97 Bulls.
Magic faced the '91 Bulls that had peak Jordan, but the '91 Bulls overall were not as stacked as this GS team is.

Jordan didn't face anything close to what the Cavs and LeBron are facing. If I had to rank the teams both Jordan and James faced in the finals, it would be as follows:

• 2017 Warriors
• 2016 Warriors
• 2015 Warriors
• 2014 Spurs
• 2007 Spurs
• '97 Jazz/'96 Sonics/'13 Spurs
• 2012 Thunder (inexperienced but more talented than any team Jordan ever faced in the finals)

'91 Lakers had a prime Magic but everything else was remarkably unremarkable. The Blazers were probably a better team that season. The Lakers were incredibly unathletic by elite team standards and it shows in the finals.

'92 Blazers were a good team but nothing remarkable.

'93 Suns actually had a lower SRS than the '93 Bulls. That Suns team was limited defensively. Barkley had a phenomenal offensive year but was poor defensively. Their defensive stopper was Dan Majerle. Lol! Compare Majerle to Kawhi or Iggy or Roberson or Kidd-Gilchrist or PG13 or Draymond or even a Smart or Crowder. '90s wing defense was an utter joke. Can you imagine the destruction LeBron would lay upon Majerle who would have to guard James 1 on 1 due to '90s rules that didn't allow zone defense or quasi zones (sagging off your man to defend an area was illegal so all the Bulls had to do was place a Bull outside the three point line and his man could not sag off of him and defend the area Jordan would go to work on the Majerles and Ehlos of the world).

I had a big breakdown to counter this but I scrpped it.

first of all Majerle was a 2 time 2nd team all defensive player and Ehlo was a scrappy defender similar to Delly.

Jordan had Scottie Pippen and all defensive player Horace grant in the first run and replace Grant with Rodman in the 2nd run.

That's not as stacked as Lebron with 2 all stars at his side during his heat run.
Or Cleveland having having two all stars along with LeBron for his 2nd run.

What Lebron did do was lose to the Mavericks who were stacked with a bunch of stars in their thirties and I would say not much better if at all than those Rockets teams with Drexler, Barkley and olajuwan that couldn't get to the finals. even after Drexler and Olajuwon put it together during Jordans siesta.

What Lebron has done is goto 7 straight finals with 2 different teams and took a squad to the finals with no elite help whatsoever.


Jordan also never had to go into the finals with Pippen and Grant out. James did have to go into the finals with Love(for the entire series) and Irving out ( for most of the series)

I also don't think the 2014 Spurs were better than the Jazz or Seattle

Nor was OKC much better if at all than those Phoenix suns where you severely underrate Barkley's defense and I also Think you extremely devalue Dan Marjerle who was a 2 time 2nd team all defense.

Dallas Mavericks were a traditional fundamental basketball team of aging veterans straight out of the 90's era. they took out LeBron with 2 all stars.

Of course Jordans 1st finals team was stocked in chemistry with the core being together as a unit going on their 4th season.

I don't believe that downgrading Jordans competition devalues Jordans accomplishment of leading the way to 6 championships in 8 years.

criticizing a team for having a 6 point SRS then propping up a team with 4 srs seems rather biased.


Anyways Jordans 6 titles in 8 years is legendary.

Lebrons 7 straight finals appearances is legendary.


I just don't think you need to lessen Jordan's accomplishment to make LeBron look better.

 

[Gus Zing]

Durant's comments lately remind me of LeBron in 2011. Think he might buckle under pressure if they lose game 1 or 2

A factor in LeBron folding was that he lost trust in his jump shot. He just didn't make jumpers that series or take them.

That won't be a problem for Durant. If anything we need Durant to be a turnover machine that leads to baskets the other way. Also LeBron must physically punish him so much that he's too worn out to try and score as much.

 

[Gus Zing]

I do worry that Javale McGee will be very annoying in the finals..

If anybody mentally checks out I hope its him. He's been big for them this season. If he's just untrustworthy to have on the floor we can better exploit them.

 

[BooyaCS]

I do worry that Javale McGee will be very annoying in the finals..

If it anybody mentally checks out I hope its him. He's been big for them this season. If he's just untrustworthy to have on the floor we can better exploit them.

I am afraid of Pachulia and who he is going to do a hatchet job on in the playoffs. I think he may try to hit Kyrie in the Knee or see if he can injure Love.

Just like I was worried about Boston getting dirty I expect GS to do so especially if they are down.

 

[Simon]

The main thing the Cavs have going for them is they know how to win in Oracle in big games. Winning games five and seven I'm sure helped boost their confidence in winning in that arena.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

Well, it's because the logical and rational choice is GS. By nearly every metric, this is the best team that's ever been put together. They have no real weaknesses and possess the most paths to victory of any team ever (that I've ever seen, at least). They can play their C- game for 40 minutes and A game for 8 minutes and beat just about every team in the league. Most of their games look like they're playing in 1st gear with no real urgency or effort.

They can score off of motion sets, they can score in ISO with two all time great scorers, they can run simple 1-4 pick and rolls with two all time great scorers, they can score in transition, multiple players can take a rebound and start an effective fast break with three of them being extremely effective at it. Lastly, they're not turning not over anymore as much this playoffs. Before the last two garbage games against the Spurs, they were turning it over less than anyone. They can do everything on offense.

On defense, they can switch anything, they close out on shooters, they protect the rim as a collective, they're average at getting defensive rebounds, they have active hands for deflections, they rotate well over on shooters, and so on.

GS IS the rational choice and I would've have been shocked if more than a couple of people picked the Cavs.

But, BUT, there is one thing: the Cavs have James. Last year, he played at the combined total impact of Curry/Dray/Klay/Iggy. It was the greatest combined offensive/defensive series in NBA finals history and if he can do it again, and Kyrie and Love continue where they were in the ECF, the Cavs will have chances. Everything will have to go right, but there's definitely a chance. LeBron knows that winning this title again gives him every bit as much of an argument for GOAT as Jordan has. He's going to do everything to make it happen.

All good points, but to me, it begs the question of why the Spurs were able to make them look so bad, both in March and in the playoffs before Kawhi went down.

To me, there is a whiff of the 92-93 Suns about the Warriors. They absolutely dominate everyone except the top teams, but actually struggle a more against them than their dominance otherwise would suggest. There is something about playoff basketball, in particular (and that's how the Spurs played them in March), that exposes weaknesses that otherwise would go completely undetected.

It's like they are an incredibly well-oiled, high-tuned machine that can outperform everything else under normal conditions. But if you get it in a dirtier environment, with more mud, sand, and crap, those minute tolerances that make them so accurate and smooth-running under normal conditions make them much more likely to malfunction.

Maybe it's just wishful thinking on my part. But I think there's something that explains why we were able to do what we did in coming back from 3-1 last year, and why the Spurs made them look bad this year. Maybe it's something as simple as aggressive, physical off-ball defense that disrupts their normal offensive flow.


.

 

[Fileman3]

MAn i dont see how the cavs win lol

 

[shoes22]

MAn i dont see how the cavs win lol

Our 3pt shooters score more points than their 3pt shooters. It’s pretty simple really.

 

[David.]

Does literally no one else believe this is narrative building by the media?

Everyone wants Cleveland to win, media is putting all their money on blue and yellow. I can already hear "against all odds, LeBron James!"