Channing Frye

[Taiter]

The disagrees on this post from the LeNutHuggers are hilarious to me.

Like, what the hell did you say that was wrong? Even leaving Channing Frye out of it because he's just a minimum player...

LeBron struck out swinging badly this summer in terms of recruiting marquee free agents to the fucking Lakers....he couldn't get 1 guy to go play with him in L.A. Not even his best friend CP3. Not even a meeting for the Lakers....

This is 1 year removed from Kyrie Irving requesting a trade, primarily because he no longer wanted to play with LeBron James.

Let's look at last summer some more...LeBron recruited 3 guys...
1. Wade- 20 pounds overweight the entire time, terrible locker room presence who divided an already fragile locker room and was such an asshole they had to trade him back to the Heat.

2. D Rose- Didn't fit right. Never passed the ball. Left the team for weeks to basically consider retirement. Got traded as salary filler, lol.

3. Jamal Crawford- LeBron recruited him but wanted us to give him the full MLE which meant we couldn't bring Cedi over and Crawford would have cost us like $25 million in tax penalties and kinda fell off big time last year.


Then we saw the team him and Magic "discussed for three hours" at LeBrons house. It's garbage. GM LeBron sucks. His recruiting power

I think it's a pretty clear and obvious fact that playing with LeBron, especially for better players like all-star and above, is not that attractive of a proposition anymore. They don't want to deal with all the drama, only for LeBron to get all the credit and none of the blame.... Even with Kawhi Leonard...soon as Bron went to the Lakers alone you have Shams basically saying "I think Leonard would prefer the Clippers now, don't think he's entirely interested in playing with LeBron".


The other problem is that it's unclear if playing with LeBron actually helps these guys at all. A lot of the time, unless you're a role-playing big-man that he feeds dunks or a sharpshooter he feeds open threes, LeBron's full control over the offense and lack of willingness to play in a system actually tends to hurt guys with more advanced games because they don't get the opportunity to do the things they're good at. He completely neutered Chris Bosh and Kevin Love, two perennial allstar big-men, all-NBA level type players. Turned them into glorified Ryan Anderson's on offense most nights. Perimeter players sometimes have it even worse...no chance to get into a rhythm...all kinda of standing around and waiting for LeBron to do something after he breaks the play you're supposed to be running. Then when you do have the ball, you're at a disadvantage half the time because LeBron likes to walk to the half-court line and put his hands on his hips while he watches everyone else play 4 on 5. Then he still usually gets beat down the court for a transition lay-up after you miss a contested shot because it's 4v5.

Not surprised at WHO disagreed...same people that pretended it was totally cool that LeBron purposely played like dogshit for months and never tried on defense at all, ever. Of the "Bron gets all credit, no blame" ilk. They probably sat down in their fancy new LeBron Lakers jersey and typed his name into the search bar to see who was disparaging him today.

I've never understood people who are fans of players instead of teams.

 

[sleepmaster]

The disagrees on this post from the LeNutHuggers are hilarious to me.

Like, what the hell did you say that was wrong? Even leaving Channing Frye out of it because he's just a minimum player...

LeBron struck out swinging badly this summer in terms of recruiting marquee free agents to the fucking Lakers....he couldn't get 1 guy to go play with him in L.A. Not even his best friend CP3. Not even a meeting for the Lakers....

This is 1 year removed from Kyrie Irving requesting a trade, primarily because he no longer wanted to play with LeBron James.

Let's look at last summer some more...LeBron recruited 3 guys...
1. Wade- 20 pounds overweight the entire time, terrible locker room presence who divided an already fragile locker room and was such an asshole they had to trade him back to the Heat.

2. D Rose- Didn't fit right. Never passed the ball. Left the team for weeks to basically consider retirement. Got traded as salary filler, lol.

3. Jamal Crawford- LeBron recruited him but wanted us to give him the full MLE which meant we couldn't bring Cedi over and Crawford would have cost us like $25 million in tax penalties and kinda fell off big time last year.


Then we saw the team him and Magic "discussed for three hours" at LeBrons house. It's garbage. GM LeBron sucks. His recruiting power

I think it's a pretty clear and obvious fact that playing with LeBron, especially for better players like all-star and above, is not that attractive of a proposition anymore. They don't want to deal with all the drama, only for LeBron to get all the credit and none of the blame.... Even with Kawhi Leonard...soon as Bron went to the Lakers alone you have Shams basically saying "I think Leonard would prefer the Clippers now, don't think he's entirely interested in playing with LeBron".


The other problem is that it's unclear if playing with LeBron actually helps these guys at all. A lot of the time, unless you're a role-playing big-man that he feeds dunks or a sharpshooter he feeds open threes, LeBron's full control over the offense and lack of willingness to play in a system actually tends to hurt guys with more advanced games because they don't get the opportunity to do the things they're good at. He completely neutered Chris Bosh and Kevin Love, two perennial allstar big-men, all-NBA level type players. Turned them into glorified Ryan Anderson's on offense most nights. Perimeter players sometimes have it even worse...no chance to get into a rhythm...all kinda of standing around and waiting for LeBron to do something after he breaks the play you're supposed to be running. Then when you do have the ball, you're at a disadvantage half the time because LeBron likes to walk to the half-court line and put his hands on his hips while he watches everyone else play 4 on 5. Then he still usually gets beat down the court for a transition lay-up after you miss a contested shot because it's 4v5.

Not surprised at WHO disagreed...same people that pretended it was totally cool that LeBron purposely played like dogshit for months and never tried on defense at all, ever. Of the "Bron gets all credit, no blame" ilk. They probably sat down in their fancy new LeBron Lakers jersey and typed his name into the search bar to see who was disparaging him today.

And this was all when basketball was still Lebron's number one priority...

I can't wait to see Hollywood Lebron trying to get his new teammates to follow his lead. This is going to be a textbook example of what happens to team chemistry when the team's best player is more interested in high-powered business dinners than any on-court brotherhood. Remember when Rondo called out Wade and Butler? I can't wait to see Rondo chastising Lebron for not playing defense during the regular season. People point to how the Lakers signed defenders, but Lebron has a knack for killing motivation to play defense. If Lavar Ball does his thing that's bonus. Lebron's smart enough to understand he has to at least start out the season playing defense, but we'll see if 34-year old Lebron can maintain that without injuries. Injuries happen more often when you do what you're not accustomed to doing.

 

[SmudgeHog]

Just wasn’t true.

About LeBron holding the ball: In 2017, LeBron averaged 4.36 seconds per touch, 80th highest in the league, and 3.26 dribbles per touch, 110th in the league.

2017 Players who held the ball longer per touch:

1. Wall
2. Westbrook
3. Harden
6. Rubio
10. Lillard
22. Conley
25. CP3
36. Kyrie, 5.07 seconds per touch
46. Kyle Lowry
72. Butler
80. LeBron

In 2018?

43. Kyrie, 4.82, under Stevens’ “system” and no LeBron; Kyrie held the ball longer in Cleveland playing with LeBron than he did in Boston this season. Yes, they pass the ball more in Boston, but it wasn’t LeBron taking the ball away from Kyrie in Cleveland.

82. LeBron

2017 Players who dribbled the ball more:

All the usuals and...

36. Kyrie, 4.87 dribbles per touch
84. Steph Curry
110. LeBron

In 2018?

46. Kyrie, 4.47
118. LeBron

Point guards are going to have a higher hold time and dribbles since they bring the ball up court, but so does LeBron. Kyrie held the ball longer than LeBron did, dribbled more than LeBron did, and wound up with a slightly higher usage rate. Knowing this, how can people continue to say “Bron was just holding the ball”?

NOw, as far as players not liking being stand still shooters, if you’re talented at creating like Kyrie was, LeBron gave him the ball to create (more time touching, dribbling the ball and a higher usage). If you’re not, then you shouldn’t be creating becuse you “like it” and “don’t like” being a shooter. Would the Patriots give Brady 18 passes and run the ball 40 times because a RB likes touches? Do the Patriots give a WR get touches because he doesn’t like blocking or being a decoy? No, they try and create the most favorable matchups that will help them efficiently get first downs, control the ball, and score. What people “like” to do and want to do can get fucked in their system. Nobody likes those assholes, but they do what’s most efficient.

What’s the object when an NBA team has the ball? It’s to score and you want to create an offense that scores efficiently. If that means taking players who cannot create efficiently and making them shooters, that’s what you do. If I have LeBron on my team, that’s the offensive system I want because it literally created the best playoffs offense in NBA history in 2017, top 5 in 2016, and the two highest rated ORatings in any playoff series over the last 45 years and 5 of the top 30 offensive series in NBA playoff history.

If you can create an offense that’s better than that some other way, then you do that, but it’s next to impossible. The only reason this team didn’t win 2-4 titles was because of injuries and two generational talents teaming up with an all time shooter and DPOY who can create. It certainly wasn’t due to a “lack of a system”; look at all the teams that DO have a system. How many elite offenses have they created? We’re talking hundreds and hundreds of teams over the last 45 years. They install systems—where’s their elite offense? It’s HARD AS HELL to have an elite offense in the NBA and then continue in the playoffs. The Warriors have the most talent ever and a system and they haven’t been able to create an offense as good as the Cavs have.

Now it’s a possibility about player perceptions, but creating an offense around LeBron was the right choice, just like it is to create one around Brady and Manning calling plays and/or being able to chsnge plays on presnap


The highest points per possession plays in the 2018 and and 2017 NBA seasons, in a league full of talent, have been a Kyrie catch and shoot three and Korver catch and shoot three (top 5 both). I WANT THEM TO TAKE THOSE SHOTS. That aside, there’s plenty of player movement on the Cavs to get open for those threes. Korver, by the way, doesn’t stand around much—he had the highest % of his shots come off running screens in the NBA this year. He sets picks for Love on the wings, for James at the top of the key. They didn’t just stand around.

I think we could have seen more weakside cutting when Bron had the ball and more cuts from Bron himself.

But back to ball movement—the object of ball movement is to get open shots. In the Finals, the Cavs created 14.3 wide open threes per game to GS’s 13.8. GS, who has a system and two generational talents, created slightly fewer wide open three attempts. Golden State created 14 open three attempts per game to the Cavs’ 11. The Cavs actually created more open/wide open two point attempts per game (16 to 15: the Warriors shot 77.8% on theirs, the Cavs 49% on theirs). We just didn’t convert.

NUMBERS! This is my favorite kind of post!

 

[STAY STRONG]

Channing Frye is going to put the team on his back and take us to the NBA Finals.

 

[Sebastian]

 

[ACisKING]

Lots of revisionist history in here about what transpired this past year in particular. It’s like people totally forgot what a great postseason LeBron had and how utterly awful the supporting cast was. Dudes were uncharestically missing open layups and wide open threes. Meanwhile LeBron hit game winners, dropped 40 plus in multiple games, and carried a team that had no business being in the Finals to yet another Finals. And I don’t buy that the supprting cast failed because they weren’t in a system. Those same dudes made shots in previous postseason runs. And, as @priceFTW posted, LeBron does not monopolize the ball or over-dribble any more than other major stars including those in so called systems. As for the nobody wants to play with LeBron argument, let’s wait until next offseason when there are more star free agents besides Paul George.

 

[Cratylus]

Lots of revisionist history in here about what transpired this past year in particular. It’s like people totally forgot what a great postseason LeBron had and how utterly awful the supporting cast was. Dudes were uncharestically missing open layups and wide open threes. Meanwhile LeBron hit game winners, dropped 40 plus in multiple games, and carried a team that had no business being in the Finals to yet another Finals. And I don’t buy that the supprting cost failed because they weren’t in a system. Those same dudes made shots in previous postseason runs. And, as @priceFTW posted, LeBron does not monopolize the ball or over-dribble any more than other major stars including those in so called systems. As for the nobody wants to play with LeBron argument, let’s wait until next offseason when there are more star free agents besides Paul George.

Yes, but one could argue that with so many star free agents next year that LA may get one simply by default and not because of the gravity/appeal of playing with LeBron James.

 

[BodegaBayCav]

I cannot wait until James' name only appears in the thread about him. Who cares about him. He is a Laker. Go Cavs.

 

[cavsfever]

The disagrees on this post from the LeNutHuggers are hilarious to me.

Like, what the hell did you say that was wrong? Even leaving Channing Frye out of it because he's just a minimum player...

LeBron struck out swinging badly this summer in terms of recruiting marquee free agents to the fucking Lakers....he couldn't get 1 guy to go play with him in L.A. Not even his best friend CP3. Not even a meeting for the Lakers....

This is 1 year removed from Kyrie Irving requesting a trade, primarily because he no longer wanted to play with LeBron James.

Let's look at last summer some more...LeBron recruited 3 guys...
1. Wade- 20 pounds overweight the entire time, terrible locker room presence who divided an already fragile locker room and was such an asshole they had to trade him back to the Heat.

2. D Rose- Didn't fit right. Never passed the ball. Left the team for weeks to basically consider retirement. Got traded as salary filler, lol.

3. Jamal Crawford- LeBron recruited him but wanted us to give him the full MLE which meant we couldn't bring Cedi over and Crawford would have cost us like $25 million in tax penalties and kinda fell off big time last year.


Then we saw the team him and Magic "discussed for three hours" at LeBrons house. It's garbage. GM LeBron sucks. His recruiting power

I think it's a pretty clear and obvious fact that playing with LeBron, especially for better players like all-star and above, is not that attractive of a proposition anymore. They don't want to deal with all the drama, only for LeBron to get all the credit and none of the blame.... Even with Kawhi Leonard...soon as Bron went to the Lakers alone you have Shams basically saying "I think Leonard would prefer the Clippers now, don't think he's entirely interested in playing with LeBron".


The other problem is that it's unclear if playing with LeBron actually helps these guys at all. A lot of the time, unless you're a role-playing big-man that he feeds dunks or a sharpshooter he feeds open threes, LeBron's full control over the offense and lack of willingness to play in a system actually tends to hurt guys with more advanced games because they don't get the opportunity to do the things they're good at. He completely neutered Chris Bosh and Kevin Love, two perennial allstar big-men, all-NBA level type players. Turned them into glorified Ryan Anderson's on offense most nights. Perimeter players sometimes have it even worse...no chance to get into a rhythm...all kinda of standing around and waiting for LeBron to do something after he breaks the play you're supposed to be running. Then when you do have the ball, you're at a disadvantage half the time because LeBron likes to walk to the half-court line and put his hands on his hips while he watches everyone else play 4 on 5. Then he still usually gets beat down the court for a transition lay-up after you miss a contested shot because it's 4v5.

Not surprised at WHO disagreed...same people that pretended it was totally cool that LeBron purposely played like dogshit for months and never tried on defense at all, ever. Of the "Bron gets all credit, no blame" ilk. They probably sat down in their fancy new LeBron Lakers jersey and typed his name into the search bar to see who was disparaging him today.

This is such complete nonsense. Did Lebron sleep with your girlfriend or something, or are you just weirdly jealous of greatness? You hated Lebron all year and hated the experience of watching the Cavs win and go to the championship. You hated the experience of watching a NE Ohio native put up some of the greatest performances in basketball history for his hometown team. Now you're going to get your wish and watch the Cavs lose and lose for years to come. CONGRATULATIONS!

 

[Cavatt]

Lots of revisionist history in here about what transpired this past year in particular. It’s like people totally forgot what a great postseason LeBron had and how utterly awful the supporting cast was. Dudes were uncharestically missing open layups and wide open threes. Meanwhile LeBron hit game winners, dropped 40 plus in multiple games, and carried a team that had no business being in the Finals to yet another Finals. And I don’t buy that the supprting cost failed because they weren’t in a system. Those same dudes made shots in previous postseason runs. And, as @priceFTW posted, LeBron does not monopolize the ball or over-dribble any more than other major stars including those in so called systems. As for the nobody wants to play with LeBron argument, let’s wait until next offseason when there are more star free agents besides Paul George.

I'll just say this. I have seen LeBron have his teammates backs and I have seen when he has not had any confidence in them. He looks great either way, but his teammates don't.

GS hits a lot of shots partially because of their cockiness. They have confidence in each other. I didn't see that from the Cavs in the playoffs.

He said the Cavs needed smarter players in a press conference. What was he saying behind closed doors?

 

[Dr. Claw]

At least Channing has wasted no time getting back with the comedy.

 

[The Wizard of Moz]

Lots of revisionist history in here about what transpired this past year in particular. It’s like people totally forgot what a great postseason LeBron had and how utterly awful the supporting cast was. Dudes were uncharestically missing open layups and wide open threes. Meanwhile LeBron hit game winners, dropped 40 plus in multiple games, and carried a team that had no business being in the Finals to yet another Finals. And I don’t buy that the supprting cost failed because they weren’t in a system. Those same dudes made shots in previous postseason runs. And, as @priceFTW posted, LeBron does not monopolize the ball or over-dribble any more than other major stars including those in so called systems. As for the nobody wants to play with LeBron argument, let’s wait until next offseason when there are more star free agents besides Paul George.

And Chris Paul, LeBron’s best friend in the league who also didn’t go to LA to play with him this offseason when he could have

And wait until next offseason? LeBron really doesn't have that much time left. People gonna be lining up to play with a 35 year old LeBron with only 2 years left on his deal? Yeah, after this offseason when 2 of his best friends in the league turned down teaming up with him in LA (one of them who was rumored to be dead set on LA for over a year) I'll believe it when I see it

 

[The Wizard of Moz]

Also I can't believe I missed this, so happy Channing came back and he will be HUGE for establishing a positive culture here. Seriously hard to imagine a guy I'd rather have around a young team to mentor them

Not to mention the fan interaction.

When there was a thread last year by PIP about why none of us liked the team I brought up losing glue guys like RJ and Channing who brought a ton of fun to the team and offered a behind the scenes look and perspective and replacing them with a bunch of guys with no personality really affected my attachment

This next season just for a whole lot funner

 

[The Wizard of Moz]

Frye chose to return to Cleveland instead of staying in LA with LeBron, on a team that desperately needed his shooting.

Amazing. Nice win for the Cavs. Frye is a real one...he truly loved it here.

Hope RJ is next.

We ended up trading a 2nd round pick and gained an ally to this franchise for years to come not to mention a guy who helped us absolutely blitz the East playoffs while he was here

 

[Sir'Dom Pointer]

We ended up trading a 2nd round pick and gained an ally to this franchise for years to come not to mention a guy who helped us absolutely blitz the East playoffs while he was here

More like Varejao, a 1st and a 2nd round pick.