Chief Wahoo Discussion

[Huber.]

The red face is a small part of what makes it offensive. The exaggerated features combined with the red face are what have it being compared to black sambo.

Recognizing that people having different colors of skin is now racist?

 

[Real Deal]

Recognizing that people having different colors of skin is now racist?

I was always taught the 4 major races, yellow, white, red, black.

 

[Soda]

Essentially if we keep Chief Wahoo, we need to design a less offensive logo, but how do you do that? How do we make a logo that is still fun but not offensive to the Native Americans? I mean it is the 21st century anything and everything is made fun of, but we still gotta try and be more politically correct

Unfortunately, you don't. The argument against has ballooned into being an argument against the entire concept of the Indians and Chief Wahoo for the whole history of the franchise. As long as there's some semblance of a "chief", I don't see the protesting going away. Once chief goes, the focus will turn to the use of the word "Indians".

 

[Derek]

But if you take away the red face like in the 70's logo, is he still a stereotype of Natives? Or is he just a goofy colorless cartoon?

Again, not trying to be a smartass here. But if the Indians adopted something similar to the Blackhawks logo and made the face bright red, would that pass?

No, it wouldn't pass because you're still calling him Chief Wahoo, mascot of the Indians.

And also no to the blackhawks logo with the red face. I never said the red face wasn't a problem, just that it was a small part of the problem. The whole thing needs to go.

 

[AZ_]

Just get rid of the fucking thing.

Do it quietly, do it over time. Whatever.

Satisfy the anti-PC morons by not making a big deal of it.

 

[Soda]

Just get rid of the fucking thing.

Do it quietly, do it over time. Whatever.

Satisfy the anti-PC morons by not making a big deal of it.

I agree with you, but what is an acceptable time-frame? Seems like they're trying to do it quietly, over time. That simply isn't enough for some.

 

[sportscoach]

Unfortunately, you don't. The argument against has ballooned into being an argument against the entire concept of the Indians and Chief Wahoo for the whole history of the franchise. As long as there's some semblance of a "chief", I don't see the protesting going away. Once chief goes, the focus will turn to the use of the word "Indians".

Sometimes people need to be reasonable as well though. If Chief Wahoo had to go, then cool I can deal with that since Wahoo kind of name is a bit clowny and isn't a very good representation, but my opinion Indians doesn't need to go. It's not actually being disrespectful since we all see Indians as strong warriors. We don't see them as weaklings and it means no disrespect. If something truly was disrespectful then yeah I would be like it's gotta go, but a team isn't going to have a symbol/name that means something weak. No one hears Indians and Native Americans and thinks weaklings, if anything you can use the name to help awareness and maybe have a deal in place for the Indians to keep their name, a certain amount of money goes to local tribes to support them.

Pro sports especially baseball is a great sport to raise awareness since it is a sport that thrives with the multi-cultural. I mean you don't see a ball club anymore that is only one culture and the WBC kind of supported it in a lot of ways. Rather than fight a team having a name, use it to support your cause. Now that's just my opinion so I could be wrong since I am just an French, Irish, English and Swedish kid with very little Native American in me, who sees everyone is equal.

 

[Soda]

Sometimes people need to be reasonable as well though. If Chief Wahoo had to go, then cool I can deal with that since Wahoo kind of name is a bit clowny and isn't a very good representation, but my opinion Indians doesn't need to go. It's not actually being disrespectful since we all see Indians as strong warriors. We don't see them as weaklings and it means no disrespect. If something truly was disrespectful then yeah I would be like it's gotta go, but a team isn't going to have a symbol/name that means something weak. No one hears Indians and Native Americans and thinks weaklings, if anything you can use the name to help awareness and maybe have a deal in place for the Indians to keep their name, a certain amount of money goes to local tribes to support them.

First thing, the people protesting don't really love being called "Indians" because it was used mistakenly in the first place. They prefer to be called Native Americans. Second, there are scholars out there who say that the use of their heritage as a mascot leads to identity issues, depression, and even suicide. Don't expect any of these protesters to "meet half-way". That's not how they work.

 

[sportscoach]

First thing, the people protesting don't really love being called "Indians" because it was used mistakenly in the first place. They prefer to be called Native Americans. Second, there are scholars out there who say that the use of their heritage as a mascot leads to identity issues, depression, and even suicide. Don't expect any of these protesters to "meet half-way". That's not how they work.

The part that leads to anxiety is the fact they have trouble being able to support their tribes in the current day and age. It's the settlers/white man's fault for a lot of the issues, but the world around them is difficult to mix in with. Part of me feels they need to be able to mix like the Amish have in some ways, but that's becoming even more political and I'll end it there since anything I say can be taken the wrong way. I think we need to hear from honest Native Americans to really decide where to go and not go with the radicals and the scholars.

 

[Huber.]

Just get rid of the fucking thing.

Do it quietly, do it over time. Whatever.

Satisfy the anti-PC morons by not making a big deal of it.

How do we satisfy the Native Americans that like the logo?

 

[Lee]

But if you take away the red face like in the 70's logo, is he still a stereotype of Natives? Or is he just a goofy colorless cartoon?

Again, not trying to be a smartass here. But if the Indians adopted something similar to the Blackhawks logo and made the face bright red, would that pass?

If we are changing the Logo to be less offensive what is the point of keeping the logo at all?

Just scrap the damn logo and move on.

 

[7foot3]

Essentially if we keep Chief Wahoo, we need to design a less offensive logo, but how do you do that? How do we make a logo that is still fun but not offensive to the Native Americans?

This isn't hard at all - actually involve them in the process. Why does Florida State not get the same grief the Indians do? Because they involve the Seminole Tribe of Florida in the depiction process and have a strong relationship with that community.

Meanwhile the Indians trot out some nonsense about Sockalexis, but ignore that the nation he is from - the Penobscot Indian Nation - has a formal request for them not to use Wahoo.

 

[Ohio]

This isn't hard at all - actually involve them in the process. Why does Florida State not get the same grief the Indians do? Because they involve the Seminole Tribe of Florida in the depiction process and have a strong relationship with that community.

Meanwhile the Indians trot out some nonsense about Sockalexis, but ignore that the nation he is from - the Penobscot Indian Nation - has a formal request for them not to use Wahoo.

Bingo.

Sit down with a Native American artist and figure something out that makes sense for everyone.

 

[buzzdog]

Part of me feels they need to be able to mix like the Amish have in some ways, but that's becoming even more political and I'll end it there since anything I say can be taken the wrong way.

Bazinga!!! You've solved the dilemma.

Change the team mascot to the Cleveland Amish!

 

[Zog]

This isn't hard at all - actually involve them in the process. Why does Florida State not get the same grief the Indians do? Because they pay the Seminole Tribe of Florida in the depiction process and have a strong relationship with that community.

Meanwhile the Indians trot out some nonsense about Sockalexis, but ignore that the nation he is from - the Penobscot Indian Nation - has a formal request for them not to use Wahoo.

I'm pretty sure FSU pays a nice chunk of change to the Seminole Tribe as well. Not sure how happy they'd be without the cash.

I also think being in that area of Florida has a lot do to with it being tolerated.

The University of Illinois did a very accurate depiction of a dance by Chief Illiniwek for years and only in 2008 (IIRC) did one lady high up in the university's administration get her panties all in a bunch about it and start a crusade to have it removed as the mascot. The VAST majority of fans did not consider it to be racist in the least.