Cleveland Browns 2019 Season

[UDcleveland]

Ugh, we’re back to the “he’s not unique, he’s only good at things that running backs should be good at, so he’s not a top talent” take... with a side of “you guys aren’t top talent evaluators like me” - gonna sit this one out for a few days.

 

[brownsbuck6]

Just gonna say that it's one thing to have an opinion, it's another to frame opposing opinions in such a way as to mock and discredit them (only homers disagree with me).

How about just stating your opinion and we can go from there?

It's not remotely outrageous to say that Hunt, before he was suspended, was thought to be an elite offensive player, a top 10 back at a minimum and bordering on top 5. As Keys mentioned, he's a VERY polished receiver out of the backfield, great vision, breakaway speed, power.. this dude is a special back. He and Chubb together is going to be something to behold.

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

I have no idea how you can say with a straight face that Kareem Hunt is more talented than all but 4 of the guys on that previous list. But hey, if you can pick one name out, I guess that validates everything.

It's not enough to be happy with two plus-starters at the position. We have to proclaim they're both top 5 RB's in one of the most stacked periods of RB talent in the league's history.

Appreciate @Randolphkeys and @SanduskyCav actually contributing something to the conversation. Keys's analysis of Hunt isn't too far off mine. Hunt is great at breaking tackles. His balance is special. He takes hits and stays upright where most backs would fall. The rest of his statement I feel is overrating Hunt's abilities. There are a lot of other RB's I feel are "strong like an ox" but Hunt isn't one of them. I think that's more of a Nick Chubb trait than a Hunt one. I honestly couldn't find anything that speaks to Hunt's ability to "run a full route tree" as I never saw him as that good of a receiver on tape. But, when looking for it, I ran across this grading of him from a Chiefs website back before the drama of this past season: https://www.arrowheadpride.com/2018/6/12/17447506/chiefs-pro-scouting-series-kareem-hunt

An above average starter whose best trait is his balance. Huh... where have I heard that before?

This youtube breakdown from Chris Harris (I think he's a fantasy guy, but he seems to isolate talent evaluation from fantasy role here) is pretty good too, and tends to say the exact same thing: View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4_jLPgiOB4


As for @SanduskyCav and the PFF grade, I'm not really surprised at all. They're an awesome resource, but some of their rankings (Specifically RB and OL rankings) are terribly flawed and need to be taken with a dose of salt. A great example is their own wording from the 2018 season preview where they ranked all teams RB situations (https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-nfl-rb-rankings-for-2018) "It’s still worrisome that a change in offense can transform Todd Gurley from arguably the worst running back in the league to arguably that best." If putting a player in a better situation changes your ranking that drastically, the problem just might be your ranking.

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

Just gonna say that it's one thing to have an opinion, it's another to frame opposing opinions in such a way as to mock and discredit them (only homers disagree with me).

How about just stating your opinion and we can go from there?

It's not remotely outrageous to say that Hunt, before he was suspended, was thought to be an elite offensive player, a top 10 back at a minimum and bordering on top 5. As Keys mentioned, he's a VERY polished receiver out of the backfield, great vision, breakaway speed, power.. this dude is a special back. He and Chubb together is going to be something to behold.

Flying in direct contradiction to your opening statement, I'm gonna say the 4.62 40 guy is not someone with "breakaway speed" as a defining trait. From that Chiefs breakdown I linked above "Hunt isn’t an elite athlete and doesn’t possess fantastic top-end speed"

I agree that Hunt and Chubb is an awesome pairing that I'm looking forward to seeing. Hunt is probably the best backup RB in the NFL.

I'm also looking forward to seeing the compensation we get for him if he leaves after this year.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

I'm going so far as to say not a single credible person was saying Kareem Hunt is a top 5 RB in the NFL at any point in his career--even during the crazy start he had to 2017.

NFL1000: Ranking the Top Running Backs of 2017 Season

3. Kareem Hunt, Kansas City Chiefs

Inside Running: 23/25
Outside Running: 22/25
Receiving: 15/20
Blocking: 14/20
Position Value: 7/10
Overall Grade: 81/100

1. 
   Kareem Hunt has been one of the best backs in the league this season. He led a Chiefs offense that took the league by storm to start the year. Helped by some creative play designs, Hunt ran with power and decisiveness. He is particularly effective in a zone scheme, as he can press the hole, make one cut and burst down the field. He runs with a good pad level, giving him great balance through contact that allows him to break tackles and pick up extra yards, which maximizes every run.
   —NFL1000 running backs scout Mark Bullock
   
   The only mystifying thing about Hunt's effect on the Chiefs offense happened in the middle of the season, when head coach Andy Reid, for whatever reason, veered away from using Hunt as a runner, receiver and decoy, making the offense more pedestrian. When offensive coordinator Matt Nagy took over the play-calling late in the season, Hunt once again got the opportunities he deserved. His abilities as a rusher and receiver are clear, but in Kansas City's option-based offense, it's his ability to create misdirection and confusion among defenses with pre-snap motion and post-snap deployment that makes him one of the best fits between player and team from the 2017 draft.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles...-the-top-running-backs-of-2017-season#slide24

I don't really have an opinion one way or the other because I watched very little football in 2017. I just dislike dogmatic statements of opinion in general.

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

NFL1000: Ranking the Top Running Backs of 2017 Season

3. Kareem Hunt, Kansas City Chiefs

Inside Running: 23/25
Outside Running: 22/25
Receiving: 15/20
Blocking: 14/20
Position Value: 7/10
Overall Grade: 81/100

1. 
   Kareem Hunt has been one of the best backs in the league this season. He led a Chiefs offense that took the league by storm to start the year. Helped by some creative play designs, Hunt ran with power and decisiveness. He is particularly effective in a zone scheme, as he can press the hole, make one cut and burst down the field. He runs with a good pad level, giving him great balance through contact that allows him to break tackles and pick up extra yards, which maximizes every run.
   —NFL1000 running backs scout Mark Bullock
   
   The only mystifying thing about Hunt's effect on the Chiefs offense happened in the middle of the season, when head coach Andy Reid, for whatever reason, veered away from using Hunt as a runner, receiver and decoy, making the offense more pedestrian. When offensive coordinator Matt Nagy took over the play-calling late in the season, Hunt once again got the opportunities he deserved. His abilities as a rusher and receiver are clear, but in Kansas City's option-based offense, it's his ability to create misdirection and confusion among defenses with pre-snap motion and post-snap deployment that makes him one of the best fits between player and team from the 2017 draft.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles...-the-top-running-backs-of-2017-season#slide24

Welp. Shit take by me I guess.

 

[The Wizard of Moz]

I forgot that the guy who couldn't beat out Spencer Ware for the starting RB spot in 2017 is clearly a top 5 talent at the position.

You have to be trolling at this point

How does this matter?He performed better than Ware ever did when he did get his opportunity. Why does it matter that he didn’t immediately have the job? Is it a knock on Mayfield that Tyrod Taylor won the job? Obviously not because it doesn’t matter and using that as an argument shows how weak your argument is

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

You have to be trolling at this point

How does this matter?He performed better than Ware ever did when he did get his opportunity. Why does it matter that he didn’t immediately have the job? Is it a knock on Mayfield that Tyrod Taylor won the job? Obviously not because it doesn’t matter and using that as an argument shows how weak your argument is

The opening of that post was pretty bitchy. Killed it so people don't get hung up on the first two pot shots and ignore the rest.

It doesn't matter at all whatsoever.

 

[The Wizard of Moz]

The opening of that post was pretty bitchy. Killed it so people don't get hung up on the first two pot shots and ignore the rest.

you have no room at all to talk on this subject. You are, by far, the most condescending poster on this board. And it’s getting old. You want to nonstop insult the intelligence of everyone on this board that doesn’t think like you and then whine when someone calls you a troll. I don’t know what’s going on with you but you’ve morphed into having a borderline unbearable posting style that is about as combative and closed minded as you can get

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

you have no room at all to talk on this subject. You are, by far, the most condescending poster on this board. And it’s getting old. You want to nonstop insult the intelligence of everyone on this board that doesn’t think like you and then whine when someone calls you a troll. I don’t know what’s going on with you but you’ve morphed into having a borderline unbearable posting style that is about as combative and closed minded as you can get

You do realize I'm referring to my own post--not yours, right?

I'm saying the post you quoted had a very bitchy opening. I edited it to take some of that garbage out.

 

[brownsbuck6]

Flying in direct contradiction to your opening statement, I'm gonna say the 4.62 40 guy is not someone with "breakaway speed" as a defining trait. From that Chiefs breakdown I linked above "Hunt isn’t an elite athlete and doesn’t possess fantastic top-end speed"

I agree that Hunt and Chubb is an awesome pairing that I'm looking forward to seeing. Hunt is probably the best backup RB in the NFL.

I'm also looking forward to seeing the compensation we get for him if he leaves after this year.

I understand he disappointed at the combine in his 40. But that doesn't always translate to when a player has pads on. I found two interesting articles discussing this speed topic that you feel you've debunked.

http://www.espn.com/blog/nflnation/...were-nfls-fastest-players-in-surprising-order

https://www.morningjournal.com/spor...cle_dd844eee-761f-5499-9663-1fbe7da51fe4.html

Kareem has plenty of speed once he's in the open field to.. well, break away from defenders.

It's so nice of you to concede that he's "probably" the best backup RB in the league though.

 

[The Wizard of Moz]

You do realize I'm referring to my own post--not yours, right?

I'm saying the post you quoted had a very bitchy opening. I edited it to take some of that garbage out.

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

I understand he disappointed at the combine in his 40. But that doesn't always translate to when a player has pads on. I found two interesting articles discussing this speed topic that you feel you've debunked.

http://www.espn.com/blog/nflnation/...were-nfls-fastest-players-in-surprising-order

https://www.morningjournal.com/spor...cle_dd844eee-761f-5499-9663-1fbe7da51fe4.html

Kareem has plenty of speed once he's in the open field to.. well, break away from defenders.

It's so nice of you to concede that he's "probably" the best backup RB in the league though.

I absolutely agree that 40 times don't correlate to success in the NFL. But, if you want to say one of his defining characteristics that sets him apart from other RB's is his "breakaway speed" then I have to disagree.

That single week that he posted a good "next gen stat top speed" was the only article I could find that said he had good speed as well. Every other article out there mentions him as an average NFL athlete with regards to speed. Even those same next gen stats that gave your first article its single talking point can be used to debunk his "breakaway speed" because Kareem is never listed in any of their end of season compilations--while other RB's are.

And, just for the record, I'm only using that stat because you brought it up. That next gen stat top speed stuff is pretty garbage if you want to talk about players' game speed. Is anyone going to say that Alex Erickson is a guy who takes the top off a defense with breakaway speed? No, but he made the list of top recorded speeds last year https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/top-plays/fastest-ball-carriers/2018/all.

Is anyone going to say Crowell had breakaway speed? No, but he posted a 20.95 during week 1 of 2018, which is faster than Kareem Hunt's 20.84 which you're making your case on.

Let's please agree not to use this new shiny raw number as something that trumps what we can clearly see on the field.

There are so many positive attributes that Kareem Hunt possesses. We don't need to resort to making up something like breakaway speed. Things like this make me feel that you just look at fantasy stats or watched a couple highlights.

 

[FiveThous]

The funniest thing is that we actually think any RB matters. It really comes down to offensive line play. If you have a good OL, you can churn and burn through RBs, the most replaceable position in football.

 

[Amherstcavsfan]

So:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuqGAPTxLAk


10:22. There is definitely a white helmet with an orange stripe on the desk in the back.

WTF?