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Cleveland Browns Quarterback Position
- Thread starter Phills14
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Exactly. Nothing to do with him being Jewish, except to the extent he himself made comments (first I'd heard of them) about wanting to play in a city with a larger Jewish community.
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Cleveland has a pretty substantial Jewish population does it not?
Shaker Heights?
But yeah, I don't put much stock in it. I did like how the article did point out the differences in how the same red-flags, like injuries, are being portrayed differently for players. But that is nothing new.
Lee
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Yes Cleveland has a large Jewish population. Yes my family was a part of it, my Grandmother was very well known in the community.
That said, this has zero to do with Josh Rosen as a prospect. Not sure why its even a thing.
CBBI
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One thing that is really important to note with Rodgers is that he sat for essentially three full seasons after he was drafted.
In that time period, the Packers coaching staff completely tore down and rebuilt his mechanics. He was afforded the luxury of being able to sit behind a Hall of Famer and for got three years of really hard coaching to transform him from "first round talent" to "best QB in the NFL".
If you look at Rodgers from his time at Cal, he has those classic "hold the ball near your ear hole" Jeff Tedford disaster mechanics. The Packers were fortunate enough to have Favre which allowed them the time to completely change Rodgers for the better.
dark2332
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Anti-Semitism as a reason for Rosen falling in drafts is the absolute dumbest thing I’ve read yet.What has happened that would lead to a sudden drop? All I see in surveying a bunch of mock drafts and articles is the same, tired narrative of "He doesn't need football," "He gets bored," "He's not a leader and has character issues," "lacks blue-collar grit." Media really hates the kid.
Haaretz had an article that basically chalks up all the so-called red flags on him as a product of anti-Semitism.
https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/the...surrounding-nfl-prospect-josh-rosen-1.6015100
The Anti-Semitism Controversy Surrounding NFL Prospect Josh Rosen
Analysts really seem to care that he’s Jewish and fixate on Rosen's many public statements including once wearing a hat on the golf course that read 'F*** Trump'
For most of last year, many predicted that UCLA quarterback Josh Rosen would be the first player chosen in the 2018 National Football League draft.
The sturdy 6-foot-4 signal-caller has racked up an impressive array of passing statistics since his freshman year in 2015, and analysts have praised the right-hander’s throwing mechanics, accuracy and poise in the pocket. The Cleveland Browns, the beleaguered franchise that holds the No. 1 pick this year, badly need a quarterback. The Jewish kid from Manhattan Beach, California, who had a bar mitzvah and is just now barely old enough to legally drink alcohol, was set to make Jewish sports history at Thursday’s draft.
But over the past few months, Rosen’s stock has begun to drop. In February, Todd McShay, a leading NFL draft analyst, predicted that the New York Giants would select him with the second pick. On Monday, prominent Sports Illustrated writer Peter King wrote that he “can’t find a likely spot” for Rosen in the top six picks. On Wednesday, it was reported that the New England Patriots are interested in Rosen — and they have the 23rd overall pick (although they could trade with another team to get a higher slot).
The reason for the slide? Apparently it has nothing to do with Rosen’s physical health or ability to sling a football, but rather involves who he is and what he has said off the field. And for at least one prominent sports TV personality, the conversation about Rosen has dipped into anti-Semitism.
Some background: He’s a talker
Rosen has not just made headlines with his grid skills. He has criticized the college football system, arguing that the high level of play required by the sport and schoolwork don’t mesh. In the same vein, he sarcastically blasted UCLA for signing a $280 million apparel deal with Under Armour while college athletes are unpaid. He once wore a hat on the golf course that read “F*** Trump.” He snuck a hot tub into his dorm room.
This tendency to speak his mind — what the scouts call “intangibles” — put him at odds with UCLA coach Jim Mora throughout Rosen’s tenure with the Bruins. Mora said Rosen reminded him of Johnny Manziel, a former college star whose once promising NFL career was derailed by unorthodox behavior, substance abuse issues and multiple arrests.
Rosen has also been open about his ambitions for a post-NFL career, something that scouts and others in the industry have taken to mean that he isn’t focused enough on football. He told Bleacher Report in August that he wants to get an MBA, create a business and “own the world.” The Sporting News reported in January that some believed Rosen was only interested in football to “make money and support the lifestyle he wants.”
Analysts really seem to care that he’s Jewish.
After the waves of criticism poured in about Rosen’s off-the-field opinions, analysts were left wondering how teams would evaluate him and where exactly he could be selected in the draft. Some chose to dig into other factors that might offer clues, such as his identity and background.
“According to my source, he’d rather be in New York [on the Giants]. He’s Jewish, there’s a stronger Jewish community, he’d rather be in the New York market than the Cleveland market, blah blah blah, we don’t know,” Stephen A. Smith, a prominent ESPN commentator, said on a radio show a couple of weeks ago.
Rosen has hinted at this kind of Jewish preference before. He was born and raised in an affluent area of Southern California, the son of Charles Rosen, an orthopedic surgeon who was once on President Barack Obama’s shortlist to become surgeon general, and Liz Lippincott, a journalist and the great-granddaughter of the founder of the University of Pennsylvania’s prestigious Wharton School of Business. In 2016, he told Sports Illustrated that Los Angeles’ large Jewish community was a factor that brought him to UCLA, even though he had wanted to attend Stanford — he was rejected by the Northern California school despite his stellar grades and standout athletic ability.
“In retrospect, being Jewish is a big reason why I should have considered UCLA,” he said. “Just because of how Jewish Hollywood is, and they really want someone to look up to because they just don’t have professional athletes.”
Another ESPN radio show, hosted by sports writers Jorge Sedano and LZ Granderson and former NFL player Keyshawn Johnson, picked up where Smith left off. But their analysis brought up Rosen’s wealthy parents, and it became a little strange. “First thing you say: doctor, Manhattan Beach the first thing you think, at least I think: pretty affluent neighborhood, little bit of money,” Johnson said. “They could be broke as a bag of glass, I don’t know, but certainly doesn’t seem that way.
“When you talk about his religion, I believe Josh is Jewish, [OK]?” he continued. “New York — big Jewish community much like L.A. You factor that into the equation.” Granderson posited that Rosen might even play better if he were drafted by New York or a team in a city with a big Jewish population, and Johnson agreed.
“If he is an observing Jewish individual who is embraced by the local community, that will certainly raise his ball,” Granderson said.
Is this anti-Semitism?
The development in this story that seems to have hit Rosen’s draft hopes the hardest came earlier this month, when Mora questioned whether he is “fit” for the NFL. After praising his skill and intelligence on the field, the veteran coach told Sports Illustrated’s King that Rosen lacks a “blue-collar, gritty attitude.” “He needs to be challenged intellectually, so he doesn’t get bored. He’s a millennial,” Mora said.
For Tony Kornheiser — the sports writer and TV personality who stars on ESPN’s “Pardon the Interruption” — this was the last straw.
“This is classic anti-Semitism. Absolutely classic anti-Semitism. ‘We don’t want this guy, this guy’s too smart,’” Kornheiser said in a rant on his podcast last week. “There’s no such thing as too smart [T]his is anti Semitism in its most blatant form. It’s like, ‘we don’t want this guy.’” Kornheiser, who is Jewish, and his co-hosts also likened the NFL’s fear of Rosen to its past prejudice against black quarterbacks, who on the flip side have been labeled as not smart enough to succeed at the demanding position.
Of course, Rosen’s fellow quarterbacks in the draft pool, such as Baker Mayfield, Josh Allen and Sam Darnold, are also all millennials. It’s also worth noting that Mayfield, the Heisman Trophy winner from the University of Oklahoma, was arrested last year for being publicly intoxicated. But his personality hasn’t made as many headlines as Rosen’s leading up to the draft.
Former NFL quarterback Sage Rosenfels, who also is Jewish, saw Mora’s comments in a different light.
“When Jim Mora said Josh Rosen is really smart and needs to be challenged every day or he’ll get bored, that improved his draft stock in my book,” he wrote. “Give me a player who wants to be challenged and doesn’t get overwhelmed with basic XOs. I like this kid more and more.”
First of all, it’s the media who is saying that he’s “falling.” For all we know, he could go #1. Then, the media responds to previous media information that he’s falling to make some large controversy.
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Well, if having a large Jewish community is important to Rosen - and he's the guy who brought it up in the first place - Beachwood doesn't compare to NYC.
I'll just say that none of us sat in the interview rooms - the best we get is second-hand spin and complimentary bromides. If Rosen "inexplicably" drops, it is likely that a bunch of teams picked up on something that gave them pause. And just to be clear, I doubt it would have annything to do with him being Jewish.
On the other hand, if he goes quickly, then it likely was all B.S..
However, people claiming that all these concerns about Rosen's intangibles are bogus are speaking out of their sphincter, because there is no way any of us can actually know that.
NorthCoastBias
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Soda
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This is where New England swoops in and we all ask 5 years later, "how the f did the teams in the NFL let that happen?!"
dark2332
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We're looking for the best QB in the draft. Period.
That said, I think it's fun to re-hash that Sam Darnold really... actually ....somehow... seems to want to go to Cleveland in a bad way.
Here are some reminders on what he's said publicly:
"It would be awesome to go [to Cleveland at] No. 1 in the draft, just because I think what the Browns are doing is really good right now, and I think they have the potential to be a really good team in the future" Darnold told ESPN after his Pro Day on Wednesday, as reported by Cleveland.com. "Just based on that, yeah, a part of me really wants to go 1.”
What? Did I hear right? Ask it again; surely we misunderstood.
HE DOUBLED DOWN:
"What the Browns are doing right now is really good. They've got a lot of good pieces right now. I think going there and being able to lead the way I lead and play the way I play, I think it would be a good situation."
On being told that he'd likely sit behind starter Tyrod Taylor for a year:
"There's definitely different ways of doing it,'' said Darnold, who won't be 21 until June. "You can go in as a rookie and play really well, and then you can also sit for a couple years. which is what I did here. I sat for a year under Cody Kessler when he was balling out here. I thought that was the best thing for me, just because I got to learn the playbook in-depth and then I was able to get my reps on the practice field and I think that really showed my redshirt freshman year when I came out and did what I did. There's two ways of looking at it, but I think either way I'll be successful.''
And yet again on the Browns:
Haslam watched the rainy workout from the stands, where he sat and chatted with Darnold's parents for awhile. When told about Haslam sitting with his mom and dad, Sam said, "Yeah, I met with him [Mr. Haslam] yesterday. He's a great guy. That whole staff is awesome."
And of course a guy is going to say all of the right things in public, right?
Here's him privately talking to a USC staffer and Jordan Palmer which was picked up from a distant microphone:
USC staffer: Hey guys, the weather patterns show that it’s gonna start raining right when we’re getting ready to throw. So we’re gonna move everything around, and have you throw before it rains and then have the O-line/D-line workout in the rain.
Darnold: Why are we doing that?
USC staffer: Well, so you don’t have to throw in the rain.
Darnold, looking to Palmer: No, we’ll just throw in the rain, right?
Palmer: Yeah.
Darnold: Perfect. I don’t care if it rains. I’m trying to go to Cleveland.
Look, I get it. Saying the right things and doing the right things are important this time of year. I know we are tasked with uncovering the best quarterback in this draft.
However, I think Darnold really does want to be here. I can get behind that--especially since I consider him the top QB in this draft.
That said, I think it's fun to re-hash that Sam Darnold really... actually ....somehow... seems to want to go to Cleveland in a bad way.
Here are some reminders on what he's said publicly:
"It would be awesome to go [to Cleveland at] No. 1 in the draft, just because I think what the Browns are doing is really good right now, and I think they have the potential to be a really good team in the future" Darnold told ESPN after his Pro Day on Wednesday, as reported by Cleveland.com. "Just based on that, yeah, a part of me really wants to go 1.”
What? Did I hear right? Ask it again; surely we misunderstood.
HE DOUBLED DOWN:
"What the Browns are doing right now is really good. They've got a lot of good pieces right now. I think going there and being able to lead the way I lead and play the way I play, I think it would be a good situation."
On being told that he'd likely sit behind starter Tyrod Taylor for a year:
"There's definitely different ways of doing it,'' said Darnold, who won't be 21 until June. "You can go in as a rookie and play really well, and then you can also sit for a couple years. which is what I did here. I sat for a year under Cody Kessler when he was balling out here. I thought that was the best thing for me, just because I got to learn the playbook in-depth and then I was able to get my reps on the practice field and I think that really showed my redshirt freshman year when I came out and did what I did. There's two ways of looking at it, but I think either way I'll be successful.''
And yet again on the Browns:
Haslam watched the rainy workout from the stands, where he sat and chatted with Darnold's parents for awhile. When told about Haslam sitting with his mom and dad, Sam said, "Yeah, I met with him [Mr. Haslam] yesterday. He's a great guy. That whole staff is awesome."
And of course a guy is going to say all of the right things in public, right?
Here's him privately talking to a USC staffer and Jordan Palmer which was picked up from a distant microphone:
USC staffer: Hey guys, the weather patterns show that it’s gonna start raining right when we’re getting ready to throw. So we’re gonna move everything around, and have you throw before it rains and then have the O-line/D-line workout in the rain.
Darnold: Why are we doing that?
USC staffer: Well, so you don’t have to throw in the rain.
Darnold, looking to Palmer: No, we’ll just throw in the rain, right?
Palmer: Yeah.
Darnold: Perfect. I don’t care if it rains. I’m trying to go to Cleveland.
Look, I get it. Saying the right things and doing the right things are important this time of year. I know we are tasked with uncovering the best quarterback in this draft.
However, I think Darnold really does want to be here. I can get behind that--especially since I consider him the top QB in this draft.
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Soda
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Beachwood, with a 90.4% saturation of Jewish residents, ranks 4th in the world for density of Jewish folks in a town (outside of Israel). New York City sits at 13%. That 13% is obviously a larger number in totality when compared to Beachwood, but do not under-play how Jewish the east-side of Cleveland is. It is absolutely a large Jewish community.
sportscoach
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Going number one in the draft is every kids dream in a sense. Now going to Cleveland isn’t at times in football, but heck you take Cleveland to the playoff/help change this franchise around; you will have a statue made of you in a short time! It is also the ultimate challenge since winning football games in Cleveland hasn’t really happened since 99.
el_capitan
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Don't forget Jewniversity Heights.
