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Closer Look: Otto Porter

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How much would you trade for the draft rights to Otto Porter?

  • Just pick him #1.

    Votes: 5 7.0%
  • Not interested in trading up to get him.

    Votes: 25 35.2%
  • Trade #19, #31, #33 and Kings (201_) pick

    Votes: 24 33.8%
  • Trade #19, #31, #33, and Grizz (2015) pick

    Votes: 3 4.2%
  • Trade #19, #31, #33, Kings and Grizz pick

    Votes: 3 4.2%
  • Trade #19, #31, #33, Kings, Grizz, and Heat (2015) pick

    Votes: 2 2.8%
  • Trade #19, #31, #33, and Cavs (2014 top-5 protected) pick

    Votes: 3 4.2%
  • Trade #19, #31, #33, Kings, Grizz and Cavs (2014 top-5 protected) pick

    Votes: 2 2.8%
  • Trade #19, #31, #33, Kings, Grizz, Heat, and Cavs (2014) protected pick

    Votes: 2 2.8%
  • Trade every available pick the Cavs can possibly trade over the next 5 years.

    Votes: 2 2.8%

  • Total voters
    71
  • Poll closed .
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If course nothing is a sure thing. But when I look back and think "How often do prospects fail to reach their potential because they can't add enough weight?" the answer seems to be "Almost never."

Everybody does not have the same body type, or the ability to add 30 pounds of muscle while retaining other qualities, etc.. It may turn out that Porter's ideal playing size/weight leaves him still short of the physical strength of someone like Leonard. Why didn't Tayshaun Prince bulk up more? Why didn't Garnett? Or Camby? Did they not work hard?


EDIT: And even if he doesn't have quite the size Leonard has in terms of wingspan and reach, there have been countless great defenders smaller than both of these guys. Even if he ends up as only 80% the defender Leonard is, that's better than any other option on that table I can think of.[/QUOTE]

There is a huge difference between saying "he's the best option on the table", which I agree with, and saying "He's Kawhi Leonard with better defense", which I don't.
 
Everybody does not have the same body type, or the ability to add 30 pounds of muscle while retaining other qualities, etc.. It may turn out that Porter's ideal playing size/weight leaves him still short of the physical strength of someone like Leonard. Why didn't Tayshaun Prince bulk up more? Why didn't Garnett? Or Camby? Did they not work hard?


EDIT: And even if he doesn't have quite the size Leonard has in terms of wingspan and reach, there have been countless great defenders smaller than both of these guys. Even if he ends up as only 80% the defender Leonard is, that's better than any other option on that table I can think of.

There is a huge difference between saying "he's the best option on the table", which I agree with, and saying "He's Kawhi Leonard with better defense", which I don't.

As I recall, I said he was Kawhi Leonard with a more complete offensive game, not with better defense. And I still think that's a pretty fair assessment. And I don't understand your Prince/Garnett/Camby comparisons. If anything, those guys serve as evidence that Porter might not even need to add more than 10 pounds or so to be an elite NBA defender. And I know I keep harping on his frame, but Porter clearly has a bigger (wider) frame than Prince. I would post pictures, but obviously that would be extremely prone to bias, so you can look around yourself if you're not convinced.
 
As I recall, I said he was Kawhi Leonard with a more complete offensive game, not with better defense. And I still think that's a pretty fair assessment. And I don't understand your Prince/Garnett/Camby comparisons. If anything, those guys serve as evidence that Porter might not even need to add more than 10 pounds or so to be an elite NBA defender. And I know I keep harping on his frame, but Porter clearly has a bigger (wider) frame than Prince. I would post pictures, but obviously that would be extremely prone to bias, so you can look around yourself if you're not convinced.


Just not sure where you see a complete offensive game.

He's mainly just a shooter/OK passer at the next level, given his inability to create off the bounce.
 
Just not sure where you see a complete offensive game.

He's mainly just a shooter/OK passer at the next level, given his inability to create off the bounce.

Well, I said Kawhi Leonard with a more complete offensive game. I don't see how you can argue against that. DX says this about Leonard:

Often compared to former MWC standout Shawn Marion, Leonard shares Marion's quick second bounce and ability to do a bit of everything. Though Leonard is often purported as a great athlete, he is far more smooth than explosive. He's not the type of player that can blow by a defender at will for an easy layup without first setting him up with a series of jabs, or someone who will finish at the basket because he can simply out-jump the players around him.

The trait that makes Leonard seem like such a physical specimen is how well his tremendous length and fluidity complement his current skillset. He is exceptionally good at pursuing the ball on both ends of the floor, keeping his feet moving on defense, filling lanes in transition, and, generally speaking, involving himself on both ends of the floor in almost every way imaginable.

What makes Leonard an enigmatic prospect is his lack of a go-to offensive skill, despite the many different ways he was involved in San Diego State's game plan. According to Synergy Sports Technology, no single offensive situation accounted for more than 17% of his touches, with Spot-Ups, Isolations, Put Backs, Fast Breaks, Cuts, and Pick and Roll situations each accounting for anywhere between 8-18% of his total possessions. Leonard ranks right around the 45th percentile amongst all NCAA players in each of those metrics in terms of Points Per-Possession.

His lack of tremendous situational efficiency stems from the fact that there are a number of holes in his game that he'll need to work on, especially out on the perimeter. Leonard's most notable weakness is his lack of jump shooting ability. Connecting on just 32% of his catch and shoot jumpers and 28% of his pull-ups last season, the sophomore struggled with his consistency from range. As with all players noted for their hand size, there are questions about Leonard's ability to develop a reliable jump shot. While there is some merit to that stereotype, if will be necessary for Leonard to continue honing that part of his game to the greatest extent possible.

They're both guys who don't create off the dribble, but still find scoring opportunities in a bunch of ways. The bold part is where Porter and Leonard differ. Porter is a lot more polished offensively than Leonard at the same age. In particular, DX points out the following skills:

Georgetown started featuring Porter more in post-up situations this season, something which could translate to the NBA as he adds more bulk. He has very good footwork, excellent touch around the basket and the length to get his shot off in a variety of different ways, which should all help him in time here considering the superior size he brings to the table.
(he shot 48% in the post, according to the video)

When the ball isn't in his hands, Porter is seemingly just as effective. He moves off the ball exceptionally well, showing terrific understanding of spacing, timing and angles, cutting to the basket at exactly the right moment to get himself an open layup, or flashing to the perimeter to subtly draw defenders away from the rim.
(19% of his offense came on cuts, according to the video)

In addition to his shooting and his passing, which you already mentioned as strengths (although I'd say he's more than an OK passer), where he's far ahead of where Leonard was in college.
 
Hmmmm,

Three weeks ago, it was Jimmy Butler. Last week it was Paul George. Now it's Kawhi Leonard.

I think I see a pattern.....
 
Again, why prospect comparisons due more harm than good..

I still say Caron Butler though, :chuckles:
 
As I recall, I said he was Kawhi Leonard with a more complete offensive game, not with better defense.

My mistake. You said he was Paul George with better defense, etc.. The "hot comparison of the day" line has me a little mixed up. He's just going to be as good defensively as Leonard?

BTW, I would note that NBA coaches seemingly disagree with you valuing Leonard as a defender over George. George was 2nd team all NBA, Leonard got a grand total of one vote.

And I don't understand your Prince/Garnett/Camby comparisons. If anything, those guys serve as evidence that Porter might not even need to add more than 10 pounds or so to be an elite NBA defender. [/QUOTE]

I'm not saying they're not good defenders. But for some reason, you're really focused on defending LBJ in particular, so I'm looking at the ability to defend more physically powerful offensive players. And all three of those guys are subject to being backed down by more powerful guys. Leonard is strong for a 3, and excels at bodying up on guys. That's not Porter's defensive game from what I've seen.
 
My mistake. You said he was Paul George with better defense, etc.. The "hot comparison of the day" line has me a little mixed up. He's just going to be as good defensively as Leonard?

BTW, I would note that NBA coaches seemingly disagree with you valuing Leonard as a defender over George. George was 2nd team all NBA, Leonard got a grand total of one vote.

And I don't understand your Prince/Garnett/Camby comparisons. If anything, those guys serve as evidence that Porter might not even need to add more than 10 pounds or so to be an elite NBA defender.

I'm not saying they're not good defenders. But for some reason, you're really focused on defending LBJ in particular, so I'm looking at the ability to defend more physically powerful offensive players. And all three of those guys are subject to being backed down by more powerful guys. Leonard is strong for a 3, and excels at bodying up on guys. That's not Porter's defensive game from what I've seen.

He played effectively in the post on offense, he finished 5th in the Big East in rebounds per game and 10th in free throws, and he often had to defend PFs in the post on defense (does anyone have video of his post defense? I haven't seen enough to say if it's good or bad). He's obviously doesn't have the thick Greek-God physique of Kawhi Leonard yet, but if it makes sense to talk about being physical from a mental standpoint, I think that describes Porter quite well.
 
He played effectively in the post on offense, he finished 5th in the Big East in rebounds per game and 10th in free throws, and he often had to defend PFs in the post on defense (does anyone have video of his post defense? I haven't seen enough to say if it's good or bad). He's obviously doesn't have the thick Greek-God physique of Kawhi Leonard yet, but if it makes sense to talk about being physical from a mental standpoint, I think that describes Porter quite well.

Don't have video, but as a Big East fan (at least the old iteration of it), I did get to watch him a lot - including live in person.

I thought he was quite good defending the post, though it's a different beast in the NBA. He's not a guy who is willing to back down, so he will challenge you even if you are bigger than him. Tends to give only so much and gradually gives less and less. Seems to have a good anticipation of what his opponent will try to do - which direction he'll go, etc. Has no problem standing his ground as I saw him draw a couple of charges from guys bigger than him - I think that's part of his game to gain any advantage he can.

Thing I know about Porter from the BE circles is that he will work as hard as he needs to win a game. Shots may not fall sometimes, but he'll find other ways. He takes instruction well, is not ego centered, though he can lift a team up on his shoulders when needed.

I think as he adds some muscle mass, he could be very effective defending in the post at the NBA level. He can rotate off the SF and onto the PF in many situations.
 
Here is a pretty good analysis on Porter
I can tackle the rest of the SFs in the next article, but I felt Otto Porter deserved his own piece. He’s clearly the best SF in the 2013 draft. The mocks have had him in the top 5 for most of the year. He led an otherwise unimpressive bunch of Hoyas through a tough Big East to a #2 seed, before bowing out of the tournament early, upset by Florida Gulf Coast. Porter is an all-around SF and those types generally fare pretty well as pros. This seems to be the position more than any other where flashing multiple skills at the college level translates best to NBA success and Otto Porter displayed every skill necessary.

Here is a quick look at Otto Porter’s numbers. First is his freshman year, followed by a month-by-month breakdown of his sophomore year:

Otto Porter


2PP


3PP


P40


R40


ASB40


A/TO
Freshman

611


226


13.2


9.3


4.7


1.3
Nov-Dec

532


435


16.8


9.8


8.8


2.7
January

540


462


20.5


9.1


4.6


0.6
February

509


500


22.9


8.8


5.5


3.4
March

412


261


17.2


7.5


6.5


2.8

These are pretty solid prospect numbers. Porter was always an efficient scorer, at least until a bad slump in his 6 March games. He’s also a solid rebounder, a good passer and defender. He was one of only a handful of college SFs with a S40 over 2.0. The only question I would have is whether his poor shooting in March is something more than a cold streak.

Here’s a look at other players in Porter’s class. I looked for players who topped .500 2PP, 18.5 P40, 8.0 R40, 6.0 ASB40 and showed some ability to hit a 3-pointer. I used a .300 percentage for the last one, but let Marion in with his .299.

Player


2PP


3PP


P40


R40


ASB40


A/TO
Paul Pierce

560


339


26.9


8.8


6.3


0.9
Shawn Marion

573


299


22.8


11.3


6.8


0.9
Robert Horry

519


350


18.7


10.0


8.9


0.9
Danny Granger

563


433


25.1


11.8


8.6


1.0
Danny Manning

593


346


28.2


10.2


6.6


0.7
Donyell Marshall

567


311


29.5


10.4


7.2


0.6
Josh Howard

558


329


20.3


11.3


6.7


1.0
Rodney Rogers

648


380


25.2


10.5


6.2


1.2
Stacey Augmon

619


469


21.8


9.6


8.7


2.0
Lionel Simmons

517


477


27.8


11.7


8.0


1.3
Ryan Bowen

607


533


21.0


12.7


7.9


1.1
Ed O’Bannon

571


433


23.8


9.7


6.1


1.0
Gerald Glass

565


376


31.4


9.5


6.5


0.7
Terence Morris

604


355


20.9


9.7


7.3


0.8
Otto Porter

504


422


19.2


8.9


6.5


1.8

This is a pretty nice list to be on. There’s a nice mix of all-stars, solid journeymen and never-weres. What makes Porter’s year less impressive is that most of this group scored more often and efficiently than him. Now might be a good time for a quick tangent to point out that the pace of college ball has slowed in the last 20 years. The numbers of all these players other than Morris and Granger were posted in the 90s. The per40 numbers I used, other than Porter’s, are all raw numbers with no pace adjustment. My guess would be that most or of the comps on the list are somewhat bloated compared to today’s numbers because of pace. I doubt an adjustment for era would push Porter’s P40 into the 22-23 range, but I feel this trend is worth pointing out. Perhaps my project this summer will be to clean my files up a little to better reflect modern times. But this is what I have to go with now.

Back to the table, with the exception of Morris and Rogers, who were both sophomores, all the players on this list were juniors or seniors. This was Porter’s first season as the lead scorer on his team and he was in that role only starting in January. His P40 steadily improved as the year went on until the slump in March. For that reason I feel the low P40 number isn’t a huge concern. There are a couple of other factors that could have suppressed Porter’s numbers some.

The first and most important factor about Porter’s season is his Georgetown team lost Greg Whittington to academic ineligibility after a loss to Pitt on 1/8. Whittington was the Hoya’s 2nd-leading scorer behind Porter at the time. Here is a look at Porter’s numbers pre- and post-Whiittington’s departure:

Otto Porter


2PP


3PP


P40


R40


ASB40


A/TO
With Whittington

516


393


15.9


8.9


7.7


2.3
W/O Whittington

497


432


21.1


8.9


5.7


1.6

The Hoyas actually played better after Whittington departed, going 10-3 in games with him and 15-4 after he left. The 15-4 mark was posted entirely in Big East play, so it really is much more impressive. Most impressive is that Porter adjusted his game and took on a larger scoring load and the team actually benefitted as a result. The improvement Porter made on the offensive end is even more impressive, considering they were put up during the Big East conference regular season. The bulk of the numbers posted with Whittington were posted during the pre-season against inferior competition. What’s impressive here is that when an important player left the team, Porter was able to step up, change his game and lead the Hoyas on a 15-2 run from that point. That run included 5 wins over top 20 opponents.

The other factor to consider with Porter and his stats is that a couple of recent Georgetown players have outperformed their stats as NBA players. Roy Hibbert and Greg Monroe have both become NBA standouts, playing beyond what their college numbers and draft positions projected. Both players were low-volume scorers while at Georgetown with some nice numbers. While I’m not quite ready to call John Thompson III the Ben Howland of the Big East, the fact is Georgetown plays a balanced offense that probably suppresses the stats of some of the better NBA prospects. This is what was happening before Whittington’s departure. Once Whittington left, the team needed for Porter to take on a larger load offensively and he handled it great.

Otto Porter is the type of player I like as a SF prospect. As college SFs go he’s a good rebounder and defender. He’s a great passer. His scoring has been up-and-down, but there is evidence that his offensive numbers were suppressed. During the non-conference schedule where prospects often fatten up their numbers against weaker competition, Porter was playing Georgetown’s shareball with Whittington. Unlike other prospect he never got the chance to fatten up his numbers against inferior competition.

The only thing that concerns me about Otto Porter as a prospect is how well he’ll score in the NBA. This can be a tough call with a prospect like Porter who has only a couple of months of scoring at a level SF prospects need to. There are extenuating circumstances that suggest he’s better than his offensive stats. But how well he’ll be able to score is still something of a guessing game. I’d certainly like him more as a prospect if he played as well for a full season as he did in January and February.

At the very least I feel he’ll be a smart, team-first player like Shane Battier. He fits that profile well. As a college player he was a good defender, rebounder and 3-point shooter who commits few turnovers and did whatever was necessary to help the team win. That in itself is a player worthy of a top 5 pick. The question is whether he can also score at a high enough level to become one of the best SFs in the game. I feel there’s at least a decent chance he’ll get there and for that reason I would make Porter the #2 prospect in the 2013 draft behind Nerlens Noel.
http://hoopsanalyst.com/blog/?p=1022
 
I like the Battier comparison. I think it's a pretty good one.
 
I like the Battier comparison. I think it's a pretty good one.

If we use our top pick on a Shane Battier-type player, that will be the most underwhelming #1 pick in some time.
 
This is almost as bad as the Noel-Sanders comparison...
 
This is almost as bad as the Noel-Sanders comparison...

You've been talking up Porter consistently. Who do you see him as? I've seen you refute a lot of comparisons but haven't seen you make one.
 
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