Collin Sexton | The Young Bull

[The Oi]

Can you post some stats and evidence to show that SGA is playing better than Sexton is recently?

Sexton vs SGA Per 36 Minutes (According to Basketball Reference)

PTS
17.4/13.2

AST
3.1/4.2

TRB
3.6/4.3

3P%
.500/.412

@Rich getting destroyed in here

 

[Sir'Dom Pointer]

@Rich getting destroyed in here

No, he isn't. Raw stats don't tell even half the story.

SGA is starting on a winning team in the west and he shares the floor with 2-4 additional ball handlers(so his box score stats are down as a result), and his advanced stats blow Sexton's out of the water. Once the RPM stats come out I expect SGA to rank very, very favourably there not just for a rookie, but for every player.

That's fine, Sexton is raw and is playing on a very bad team, so we shouldn't really judge Sexton based on those numbers; however, SGA has been objectively a far more impactful player and it's not close.

 

[The Oi]

No, he isn't. Raw stats don't tell even half the story.

SGA is starting on a winning team in the west and he shares the floor with 2-4 additional ball handlers(so his box score stats are down as a result), and his advanced stats blow Sexton's out of the water. Once the RPM stats come out I expect SGA to rank very, very favourably there not just for a rookie, but for every player.

That's fine, Sexton is raw and is playing on a very bad team, so we shouldn't really judge Sexton based on those numbers; however, SGA has been objectively a far more impactful player and it's not close.

@The Oi getting destroyed in here

 

[Sir'Dom Pointer]

@The Oi getting destroyed in here

Gods can't be destroyed.

 

[ajz20]

For a 19 year old rookie rafted 8th, he's doing alright for me. This team isn't good, an he's a bright spot. Give him at least one of the Duke players next year and watch these kids grow together.
Add the first rounder in 2020 and with potentially a lot of cap space and Boston likely imploding by then with all their personalities, the Cavs can be in a damn good position.

Boston imploding in 2 years with all the extra draft picks they have and the young talent already on the roster is def optimistic.

 

[The Oi]

Gods can't be destroyed.

This guy obviously never read Ozymandias right @Randolphkeys ?

 

[Sir'Dom Pointer]

This guy obviously never read Ozymandias right @Randolphkeys ?

Stop summoning the olds gods for nothing.

Boston imploding in 2 years with all the extra draft picks they have and the young talent already on the roster is def optimistic.

There is a chance Ainge holding on to his picks and Jaylen Brown will bite him in the ass. I feel like the Eastern teams just got much stronger and they should have capitalized on their assets when they had high value. Brown and even Tatum (yeah), could prove to just be role players. hinge is too clingy, and I get where he is coming from, but sometimes you just gotta trade for a superstar. Now they have too many cooks and other than Kyrie none of them is very good.

 

[I'mWithDan]

No, he isn't. Raw stats don't tell even half the story.

SGA is starting on a winning team in the west and he shares the floor with 2-4 additional ball handlers(so his box score stats are down as a result), and his advanced stats blow Sexton's out of the water. Once the RPM stats come out I expect SGA to rank very, very favourably there not just for a rookie, but for every player.

That's fine, Sexton is raw and is playing on a very bad team, so we shouldn't really judge Sexton based on those numbers; however, SGA has been objectively a far more impactful player and it's not close.

Sexton is playing at an above replacement player level, as the primary ball-handler, in his rookie reason.....that is hard to do. As a starter, he's been well above that level. As his minutes and opportunities have increased, he's actually become more efficient, which is notable.

I like SGA but he's a role player on a good team.....that isn't as hard as having primary ball handling and scoring responsibilities dropped on your head at 19 years old (even if it is for a team that isn't good). To me, it's more of an apples to oranges comparison.

Per 100:

Collin: 23.7 PTS, 19.8 FGA, 4.9 REB, 4.2 AST, 0.8 STL, 0.3 BLK
SGA: 17.2 PTS, 13.1 FGA, 5.8 REB, 5.1 AST, 1.5 STL, 1.2 BLK

Collin is flashing scoring ability while SGA is showing a more rounded out game on the defensive end. How is this any different from what we expected? Or how do you value one (scoring) over the other (2-way role player) at this point in their careers? Seems silly.

As a starter:

Collin (4): 18.8 PTS, 3.5 REB, 2.5 AST 48.4% FG, 70.0% 3 PT, 100% FT, 23.7 USG
SGA (5): 13.6 PTS, 4.4 REB, 2.8 AST, 51% FG, 36.4% 3 PT, 75% FT, 18.2 USG

SGA's per 36 assist numbers have seen a tail as his minutes have increased, so I'm curious to see if that is a blip or a trend. Sexton's defensive numbers have also looked much better playing with the first unit......so I'm also curious to monitor that as well.

Both players have shown promise but calling SGA "objectively a far more impactful player" seems a little bit of a stretch given their assumed roles. The answer is somewhere in between.

 

[David.]

Sexton is playing at an above replacement player level, as the primary ball-handler, in his rookie reason.....that is hard to do. As a starter, he's been well above that level. As his minutes and opportunities have increased, he's actually become more efficient, which is notable.

I like SGA but he's a role player on a good team.....that isn't as hard as having primary ball handling and scoring responsibilities dropped on your head at 19 years old (even if it is for a team that isn't good). To me, it's more of an apples to oranges comparison.

Per 100:

Collin: 23.7 PTS, 19.8 FGA, 4.9 REB, 4.2 AST, 0.8 STL, 0.3 BLK
SGA: 17.2 PTS, 13.1 FGA, 5.8 REB, 5.1 AST, 1.5 STL, 1.2 BLK

Collin is flashing scoring ability while SGA is showing a more rounded out game on the defensive end. How is this any different from what we expected? Or how do you value one (scoring) over the other (2-way role player) at this point in their careers? Seems silly.

As a starter:

Collin (4): 18.8 PTS, 3.5 REB, 2.5 AST 48.4% FG, 70.0% 3 PT, 100% FT, 23.7 USG
SGA (5): 13.6 PTS, 4.4 REB, 2.8 AST, 51% FG, 36.4% 3 PT, 75% FT, 18.2 USG

SGA's per 36 assist numbers have seen a tail as his minutes have increased, so I'm curious to see if that is a blip or a trend. Sexton's defensive numbers have also looked much better playing with the first unit......so I'm also curious to monitor that as well.

Both players have shown promise but calling SGA "objectively a far more impactful player" seems a little bit of a stretch given their assumed roles. The answer is somewhere in between.

Isn't he -. 4 vorp

 

[I'mWithDan]

Isn't he -. 4 vorp

-2.0 is replacement level.

He's not burning the house down but that number is edging upwards.

Shai is 0.3.....so they're in the same ballpark at this point.

Shai has the better advanced metrics, I'm just curious how they move once his minutes stretch.

 

[David.]

-2.0 is replacement level.

He's not burning the house down but that number is edging upwards.

Shai is 0.3.....so they're in the same ballpark at this point.

Shai has the better advanced metrics, I'm just curious how they move once his minutes stretch.

Jesus shouldn't replacement player be calibrated at 0 for value over replacement player

They may want to rethink that

 

[Randolphkeys]

This guy obviously never read Ozymandias right @Randolphkeys ?

And the chances of him fully comprehending Samuel Taylor Coleridge's Kubla Khan are slim to none.

 

[I'mWithDan]

Jesus shouldn't replacement player be calibrated at 0 for value over replacement player

They may want to rethink that

It's a BPM rate calulation, so think of it in terms of how we view +/- contribution of players and NOT as we view a 0 to 100 rating system.

So for the purposes of everyone understanding this, an average player is a -2 per 100 possessions......so that's the baseline starting point for trying to calculate worth to league average.

 

[Nathan S]

-2.0 is replacement level.

He's not burning the house down but that number is edging upwards.

Shai is 0.3.....so they're in the same ballpark at this point.

Shai has the better advanced metrics, I'm just curious how they move once his minutes stretch.

Jesus shouldn't replacement player be calibrated at 0 for value over replacement player

They may want to rethink that

-2.0 BPM is replacement level, while 0.0 BPM is (minutes-weighted) approximately league average.

0.0 VORP is exactly replacement level, as the name suggests.

 

[David.]

-2.0 BPM is replacement level, while 0.0 BPM is (minutes-weighted) approximately league average.

0.0 VORP is exactly replacement level, as the name suggests.

then -.4 VORP is below rp and I believe he's like -5.8bpm