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Darius Kinnard Garland

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What is Darius Garland's Ceiling?

  • One Time All-Star

    Votes: 18 10.9%

  • Occasional All-Star

    Votes: 21 12.7%

  • 5-6 Time All-Star

    Votes: 31 18.8%

  • Perennial All-Star

    Votes: 40 24.2%

  • An All-NBA Team or Two

    Votes: 22 13.3%

  • Perennial All-NBA Teamer

    Votes: 20 12.1%

  • Occasional MVP Candidate

    Votes: 11 6.7%

  • Perennial MVP Candidate

    Votes: 2 1.2%

  • MVP, Baby!

    Votes: 10 6.1%

  • Being Jim Chones

    Votes: 13 7.9%
  • Total voters
    165
Naylor23 said:
That has nothing to do with what I said?
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My first reply was directed towards you saying Garland hasn't developed at all in 2 years, you think it's more mental/work ethic and you don't think it's a coaching issue. My second reply was also directed towards that too because I thought you were trying to compare Mitchell's and Garland stats to prove it wasn't the coaching in terms of development.

If you are saying that the off/on stats for Mitchell and Garland show that in game coaching isn't an issue because one lineup with Mitchell works and the lineup with Garland doesn't. I'll just say that JBB has basically fallen into 2 good lineups since he has been here, the Mitchell running the point with 3 shooters & one big and the triple towers lineup from 2 years ago. Mitchell is also a much more developed player and has been able to adjust his play because of his experience. Cavs don't run much if any of a system on offense, it's a free flowing offense. It's why I say that JBB has failed to develop Garland well enough to run a free flowing offense because he hasn't built enough offensive styles into Garland to have him make adjustments on his own. He plays one style and has never been challenged to play any other way under JBB.
 
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JBB was also his coach on his all star season, right? So not sure how is this JBB’s fault.

Last year he was also miles better than now and JBB was also coaching then.

One thing is certain, he regressed this season and he is still extremely mentally soft. Any form of adversity or physicality and he crumbles.

That mental aspect of the game is on him. This type of softness is exposed ten fold on the playoffs. Currently, he is playing like a 2nd string rookie guard but paid all star money.
 
Lil Z said:
Pop is the better coach and would probably get the best out of him. As long as we have this dip shit at the helm, we'll never see how he can evolve
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It’s a Garland thing. Not a fan of JBB, but he was the coach when Garland made the All-Star team and when he averaged 20 & 8 last year. He’s far enough removed from his broken jaw that it can’t be an excuse anymore.

He’s the Tobias Harris of PG’s right now. Paid like a top 5 player at the position and perform like a bottom third starter.
 
mAo_mAo said:
JBB was also his coach on his all star season, right? So not sure how is this JBB’s fault.

Last year he was also miles better than now and JBB was also coaching then.

One thing is certain, he regressed this season and he is still extremely mentally soft. Any form of adversity or physicality and he crumbles.

That mental aspect of the game is on him. This type of softness is exposed ten fold on the playoffs. Currently, he is playing like a 2nd string rookie guard but paid all star money.
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JBB has developed him to be a point guard that racks up assists by easy lobs and dunks in an offense with 2 or 3 bigs. They have shifted away from that and Garland has struggled to adjust to getting the ball to shooters.

I think teams know Garland wants to probe and find bigs for dunks. They are less concern about him finding guys on the perimeter. They cut off driving lanes for him and his passing lanes to the bigs.

Even before the triple towers they were using Nance at SF. Basically Garland has been asked and developed to play an offense that isn't a modern NBA offense for most of his NBA career under JBB. The thinking might have been that he would evolve as the offense did as they could build out the roster with more modern players. They made a fairly quick shift and Garland now seems to be left unprepared to run this offense. While I also think a lot of his scoring is built on the threat of bigs getting easy lobs and dunks.
 
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ryanf said:
I honestly don't know how folks can defend garland still, like, what other proof you need to be convinced of his flaws?
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I think his flaws were pretty apparent right from the start. I think one big problem is that this organization and JBB just didn't seem worried about correcting his flaw or any players flaws really. They just leaned in heavily on the players strengths to the point that the player didn't think they needed to work on their flaws at all.

We now have 4 examples of highly drafted players who just didn't develop much under JBB after their initial jump from the NBA game slowing down for them. Sexton, Garland, Okoro, and Mobley. I think everyone thought each of them should have had higher ceilings and better progress than they have shown so far. Garland seems to regress from his all star year. Okoro and Mobley have added 3 points shots but are basically the same players they were their rookie year.

I don't expect Garland, Okoro, or Mobley to immediately make a huge jump under a new HC. I think their development have been stunted and all I'm hoping is their development can be restarted under a new coaching staff. It might take multiple season for any one of them to make another jump if there is any correctable development left in any of them.
 
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I heard multiple interviews of JBB saying that he needs to have Darius playing aggressively. That is him talking to the media. I suppose behind the scenes there is a lot of conversations about it.

However, Darius remains passive and he has a flawed understanding of being “aggressive” as going 1 on 1 and unnecessarily penetrate when what he needs to actually do is hunt three pointers.

He really needs to watch how Steph or even Trae plays on offense. Those are similar players with limited athleticism but have the ball handling, passing, and shooting to be the focal point of the offense.
 
mAo_mAo said:
I heard multiple interviews of JBB saying that he needs to have Darius playing aggressively. That is him talking to the media. I suppose behind the scenes there is a lot of conversations about it.

However, Darius remains passive and he has a flawed understanding of being “aggressive” as going 1 on 1 and unnecessarily penetrate when what he needs to actually do is hunt three pointers.

He really needs to watch how Steph or even Trae plays on offense. Those are similar players with limited athleticism but have the ball handling, passing, and shooting to be the focal point of the offense.
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If a player isn't listening, then they're just doing what they think it best because they have no other alternative, which means they aren't being told or assisted on how to actually do it. That's on coaching.

Curry didn't take that elite next step until Kerr came in and arranged an offense around him to do it. In fact, Curry's numbers prior to Kerr were similar to DG's of the last two seasons. And I don't want him watching tape on Trae. Please burn it all so he can't.
 
inliner311 said:
My first reply was directed towards you saying Garland hasn't developed at all in 2 years, you think it's more mental/work ethic and you don't think it's a coaching issue. My second reply was also directed towards that too because I thought you were trying to compare Mitchell's and Garland stats to prove it wasn't the coaching in terms of development.

If you are saying that the off/on stats for Mitchell and Garland show that in game coaching isn't an issue because one lineup with Mitchell works and the lineup with Garland doesn't. I'll just say that JBB has basically fallen into 2 good lineups since he has been here, the Mitchell running the point with 3 shooters & one big and the triple towers lineup from 2 years ago. Mitchell is also a much more developed player and has been able to adjust his play because of his experience. Cavs don't run much if any of a system on offense, it's a free flowing offense. It's why I say that JBB has failed to develop Garland well enough to run a free flowing offense because he hasn't built enough offensive styles into Garland to have him make adjustments on his own. He plays one style and has never been challenged to play any other way under JBB.
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It's not on/off.

The cavs PPG, scoring efficiency, shooting efficiency are all significantly better as a team when Mitchell plays without Garland than vise versa

That's 100% impossible to be a coaching issue. That's a 100% player issue.
 
I am usually optimistic about the Cavs young guys, because I can understand the vision. But DG is not the guy, at this point in his career, to be a successful, winning point guard. Way too inconsistent, passive and indecisive; 3 major qualities needed from your lead guard. Talented player, but not a winning player.
 
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