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David Blatt v. Tyronn Lue

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In order to coach a team of 3 all-stars and other NBA talent that gets thrown together with the pressure of immediate championship expectations it takes some special qualities.

Lue has demonstrated that he has those qualities. Although he is an excellent head coach Blatt was lacking some of those qualities. Did that make the difference between winning the title and falling short? Since we succeeded you certainly cannot second guess Griffin's decision at this point.

If Blatt would have landed somewhere like Boston, with a younger roster and lesser talent, he would have probably fit better and he'd probably be enjoying a good reputation for having a scrappy, tough team like Brad Stevens currently does.

It was unintended for Blatt to have to cut his NBA teeth coaching a big 3 with the likes of Lebron, Kyrie and KLove.

What happened, happened. I'm just glad we have a GM with the balls to act on his best judgement and make the mid-stream correction.
 
Hold the phone, David Fucking Griffin joined a film session and jumped on LeBron for lack of effort? Man, I love griff. That guy has balls of steel and gives 0 fucks.

You can tell LeBron respects him too with some of the stories he has told.

I know this is the Lue thread, but that just jumped out at me. Griffin has been pushing the right buttons since day 1; with the biggest button of them all pressing the red button on Blatt.

Wasn't that Lue who told LeBron to shut the f*** up and tell him to keep watching the film, saying "I got this?" Right after the mid-season switch.
 
Wasn't that Lue who told LeBron to shut the f*** up and tell him to keep watching the film, saying "I got this?" Right after the mid-season switch.
No. Lue said that to LeBron during a timeout when they were going over a play. Griffin himself called out LeBron in one of the film sessions.
 
The site's insiders have said Windhorst and particularly Jason Lloyd are typically on point.

I don't know anything that was said in S34 that would refute anything that has been reported by McMenamin or Windhorst.

What's S34?
 
No. Lue said that to LeBron during a timeout when they were going over a play. Griffin himself called out LeBron in one of the film sessions.

Interesting. Very ballsy to call out 23...love it. I do know Blatt was a bit afraid of 23.
 
No. Lue said that to LeBron during a timeout when they were going over a play. Griffin himself called out LeBron in one of the film sessions.

:chuckle:

Potty Mouth Lue.
 
Without a doubt Blatt was brought here to coach/teach Ky, Wiggins, Bennett, Waiters etc.

Blatt was also always the fall guy when things went bad. LeBron holds everyone accountable don't get me wrong, but when Blatt shows up late its not a good sign. Then it's easy to start not liking or respecting your coach. Blatt was definitely not a leader of men in the NBA, not like in Europe.

Lue is such a perfect fit, and proved to be the perfect coach. Their was alot of bashing of Lue around here, but it doesn't matter anymore, he's a world champion.
 
No. Lue said that to LeBron during a timeout when they were going over a play. Griffin himself called out LeBron in one of the film sessions.
And Griffin called Lebron out in the film session while Blatt was still the coach, but I believe it was near the end of his tenure. That had to be some of the writing on the wall for Griffin, when he felt he had to do something that his head coach was not doing.
 
As opposed to what? Some shit we're just going to make up because we don't like reality?

Blatt got fired because... nothing? No reason at all?? Or.. wait a minute.. cuz LeBron right?



I keep bringing it up anytime someone says Blatt and Lue are on equal footing. It seems weird that this keeps getting said..

Like how are they on equal footing..?

One guy got fired unceremoniously and the other guy won a championship. I can't think of any reason that Lue's accomplishments would be diminished in this way, only to support Blatt's failures. Can you help me understand why this is, because up til now, I've struggled to understand this...

Furthermore, why are you (or anyone) ignoring media reports?

Why ignore observable, reported information? And if you do choose to ignore it, then you're doing so in favor of what? What contradictory information do you have that speaks to your conclusion?

In essence, what evidence do you have to back up your supposition? Because a lot of what I read sounds like folks speaking from their own imagination rather than anything that's been reported.



That was one of many, but I went through a list up-thread. My post wasn't intended to re-tread all of this, but since you seem to wanna go down that road, we can add these to the list:

1) Why are you late to practice, or any team function? Why be late to depart for a road game?
2) Why are you not holding players accountable?
3) Why are you not able to figure out an offensive system that works?
4) Why don't you have control over the players and the locker-room?

Why are posters so ready to overlook these issues? Because it makes Blatt look bad? So what?

If this were Mike Brown, we'd be tearing him apart.. Why is David Blatt getting a pass?

Again, honestly, what am I missing?



Mission accomplished? Umm, maybe you haven't been keeping up with current events, but we just won the NBA Finals. We did so, largely because Lue outcoached Steve Kerr. I don't think you'd find a single commentator that would disagree with that notion.



Great.



I'm not trying to, I said that before.

It's like, I have to constantly say that I think Blatt is a great coach, or else.. Yes I wanted him hired over Lue, I was excited he was the coach. I never wanted him fired, and argued against it the day of. It wasn't until I heard Griffin's press conference, read the media reports, and saw how the players reacted that I realized it was the right decision.

But in this post, you're misstating my position and also calling me a "hater." So you're kind of dragging me into bashing the guy, when my point is that he doesn't deserve anywhere near the same level of credit as Ty Lue, and you do a disservice to Lue by equating the two. Lue is the superior coach on this team; period.

So to be clear, my problem is when folks say he's somehow equal or better than Lue, for.. reasons. I'm really not trying to say Blatt is a bad coach, because I don't believe that.

Or that he was undeservingly fired.. That's, well, that's frankly bullshit.

Or when they try to ignore how awful the Cavs locker room was, and whose fault that was.

Or how they'll ignore we weren't running an offensive system, at all, whatsoever.

There's so many things you are choosing to overlook, because it seems you have a preconceived notion about Blatt and how he ran the team.

What if LeBron himself told you Blatt wasn't cut out for the job, would you believe him, or no?



Except in the NBA. Except in Cleveland. Because in the NBA, he quite frankly blew his chance and now he's back overseas.

And if he's so great, why did no team pick him up? Why is he coaching in Turkey and not in the league?

You think other GMs are cool with coaches that can't manage star players, can't manage their own time, and have an irrational sense of self-accomplishment?

If we're so ready to criticize, why not criticize Blatt? Again, I keep repeating this because it seems I've never gotten an answer.. Just attacked whenever I try to speak what I think is the truth about our ex-coach.



Did we win those games because of him, or in spite of him?

The reporter you cited upthread says it was in spite of him.... Go figure.



See above.



It's not about being a hater... Go through 1.5 years of posts, and find hate.

What type of shit is this anyway? I have to be "a hater" because I'm saying give credit where it's due -- and Lue deserves the credit. Don't put forward false equivalencies suggesting anyone could do it if Lue did it...

That makes me a hater?

So, if someone says Mike Brown isn't a good coach, are they a hater too? Or is it only if it's David Blatt?



Do you know what hindsight bias is? Have you read my posts over the past 8 years?

I've consistently criticized EVERY Cavaliers coach.

From Mike Brown, to Byron Scott, to Brown again, to Blatt, and yes Lue.

But I've done so fairly.

My problem is that folks seem to want to praise Blatt at Lue's expense.

Just say you're a fan, you like the guy, and you wish him well -- but don't suggest that he was a good coach during his tenure with the Cavaliers... That's bullshit, and it's intellectually dishonest. If it were true, he wouldn't have been fired.

I'm sure he's a "good coach," but that doesn't describe his troubled tenure here.



As opposed to what story? What story are you referring to that carries different facts? All these reporters are just lying?! And who is telling the truth?

I know.. let's just make some shit up, and say.. well, my truth is just as valid as theirs... Is that how this works?



Fuck outta here with that... Lloyd, Windhorst (you quoted him), McMenamin, all the douches from NeoMG.. All of them were on the same page.. But me citing actual reporters makes me a "mouthpiece?"

Think about it...

I'm citing media reporters... respectable reporters.. And that makes me, according to you, a fucking "mouthpiece?!"

SMDH

Imma just let that one go bro....

You tell me who are your sources... What am I missing in your picture of the universe that lets you know that Blatt just got the shaft here and he really shouldn't have been fired for fucking up his job?


We got confirmation that Lebron wanted Blatt gone from day 1. We got confirmation that Lebron scrapped the offense and Mike Miller said "They didn't have the personnel to run it." after he said it was borderline genius.

We got the confirmation that Lebron wanted a coach that had been in the NBA and preferably one that was african american.

If you ask me, Blatt wasn't on time because he knew his days were numbered. He couldn't fight the Biggest name in basketball. He tried, but he couldn't do it. If you have ever been put in a position where it has been made impossible to do your job, you don't bust your ass to get everything done on time.

You think if Lue were in charge the Cavs would have won in 2015. That is absurd. That team was gassed and running on fumes by game 4. I knew they had given it their best shot by then.

We know the Cavs badmouth coaches and players on their way out. There is a pattern here.

I said that moving to coach Lue was the right decision, but to me it doesn't mean Blatt is a bad coach. He could have very well had the same success this year with a better roster, we do not know. I love Lue, man. He is great and he fucking delivered in his rookie year. It is impressive. His team was 2x or more better than the team Blatt rolled into the finals with.

It's something personal with you. i don't know why you are so in lockstep with this narrative. Chris Parker has said that the media had a bias against Blatt because their rapport was strained. He has stated that it wasn't the entire locker room against Blatt. We had JR and others sing his praises. Max told us that Lebron wanted someone else. When I get primary sources I disregard official press releases and bullshit cover stories.

There is more to this story than Blatt is a bad coach, and I don't think we will ever know what it was. You think you know. This is your personal crusade, so have fun with it. I just liked coach Blatt, I liked the way he talked about basketball, I think he did an amazing job in the finals, and IMO he is the 2nd best coach of the last 20 years.
 
There is more to this story than Blatt is a bad coach, and I don't think we will ever know what it was. You think you know. This is your personal crusade, so have fun with it. I just liked coach Blatt, I liked the way he talked about basketball, I think he did an amazing job in the finals, and IMO he is the 2nd best coach of the last 20 years.

So who got bumped out of the ranking to make room for Blatt - Phil Jackson or Gregg Popovich? Because from 1996 onwards, Phil won eight rings (and another three before that) and Pop won five (and did so coaching two completely different styles). Blatt won two Finals games and then got fired the next season...
 
So who got bumped out of the ranking to make room for Blatt - Phil Jackson or Gregg Popovich? Because from 1996 onwards, Phil won eight rings (and another three before that) and Pop won five (and did so coaching two completely different styles). Blatt won two Finals games and then got fired the next season...
Pretty sure Cavatt was referring to cavs coaches. Which admittedly isn't a very elite club but still.
 
We got confirmation that Lebron wanted Blatt gone from day 1. We got confirmation that Lebron scrapped the offense and Mike Miller said "They didn't have the personnel to run it." after he said it was borderline genius.

We got the confirmation that Lebron wanted a coach that had been in the NBA and preferably one that was african american.

If you ask me, Blatt wasn't on time because he knew his days were numbered. He couldn't fight the Biggest name in basketball. He tried, but he couldn't do it. If you have ever been put in a position where it has been made impossible to do your job, you don't bust your ass to get everything done on time.

You think if Lue were in charge the Cavs would have won in 2015. That is absurd. That team was gassed and running on fumes by game 4. I knew they had given it their best shot by then.

We know the Cavs badmouth coaches and players on their way out. There is a pattern here.

I said that moving to coach Lue was the right decision, but to me it doesn't mean Blatt is a bad coach. He could have very well had the same success this year with a better roster, we do not know. I love Lue, man. He is great and he fucking delivered in his rookie year. It is impressive. His team was 2x or more better than the team Blatt rolled into the finals with.

It's something personal with you. i don't know why you are so in lockstep with this narrative. Chris Parker has said that the media had a bias against Blatt because their rapport was strained. He has stated that it wasn't the entire locker room against Blatt. We had JR and others sing his praises. Max told us that Lebron wanted someone else. When I get primary sources I disregard official press releases and bullshit cover stories.

There is more to this story than Blatt is a bad coach, and I don't think we will ever know what it was. You think you know. This is your personal crusade, so have fun with it. I just liked coach Blatt, I liked the way he talked about basketball, I think he did an amazing job in the finals, and IMO he is the 2nd best coach of the last 20 years.
Dude, he keeps saying that Blatt is a good coach. I don't think you're reading his argument correctly. He does think Blatt was a good coach, just not the right coach for this team, this argument is getting tedious.

Also, CP noted the media bias, sure, but he also noted that the narrative was not entirely false. I think saying that the reason Blatt got fired is because he was white is just as, if not more disingenuous than saying Blatt got fired because he was a bad coach. Blatt is a good coach, an unbelievable international coach, and anyone who said he was an unsuccessful coach at the NBA level is full of shit. Equally important, though, Lue is a good coach, the team gelled more with him at the helm, and was not hired solely because he was black.

One of the things I've learned from being a grad. student is that every source is biased, but as long as it's not a lie (something nobody has said about the narrative regarding Blatt), then it's the job of a researcher to find the kernel of truth. That's what Gour, myself, and others on here have tried to do regarding this firing.
 

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