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I think so many people are thinking like this that it will be a self-fulfilling prophecy type of deal. Even if there is no obvious cause for a crash, speculators and emotional investors will eventually manufacture one.
Funny we are discussing this the past day or two. Mr. Money Mustache (who I am a big fan of, but he is a tad extreme for my liking) just posted and article stating a recession is coming and posts some facts that point to it.

http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2017...gn=Feed:+MrMoneyMustache+(Mr.+Money+Mustache)
 
Roth is nice because you only have to put it in 5 years, then can pull out penalty free if you need. So i recommend the roth too.

The market is 10-12% a year average.

And a S&P 500 index fund is boring, get a bti more aggressive when you with a mutual fund or 2 with a good history. No need to put it into the boring old man fund of S&P, lol.
Lee, point me in the direction of these mutual funds that are after fees beating out the S&P.

Mutual funds are pretty shitty compared to an exchange traded fund. Why the hell would I pay someone to invest a portion of my money in AAA corporates or bonds. THAT'S the boring route. Investing in bonds at all.

Unless you know of some mutual funds I don't know of I really see very little reason to ever go mutual fund over a well diversified ETF.
 
Its not marginal, I had my investments in a few different well picked mutual funds and earned over 20% last year.
Lee it's also one of the most aggressive bull markets right now in the history of the US market. You can trip over your dick and make 20% right now. How does it perform in a bear market? I'd guess it has to be more volatile?

Also the S&P went up right around 16% last year.

I just don't see why you wouldn't just target your exposure through ETFs for less cost.

Index funds have zero protection against negative market moves.
Well, well, well. Look who's being risk averse now;)
 
Reading everything after this post reminded me why I stay out of here...
Curious what you mean by this Dagg

The US markets are extremely expensive right now, CAPE ratio is what 29? If you insist on going this route, then do the Roth.
They are, but that doesn't mean there isn't money to be made on tactical plays. I've been shorting volatility like a madman and kicking back smoking my cigars as the market rallies relentlessly. I am waiting for a significant market correction to get some blue chippers on discount, but until then there are still plenty of ways to make money in the market besides just going long.
 
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I think so many people are thinking like this that it will be a self-fulfilling prophecy type of deal. Even if there is no obvious cause for a crash, speculators and emotional investors will eventually manufacture one.
All it takes is fear to make the market crash. Volatility spikes when the market goes down... because everyone is just playing chicken with each other. I think this market is just itching for some sort of catalyst to bring it back in line. Right before the French election there was a huge spike in VIX futures. Right after Comey was fired there was a huge spike in VIX futures. Both reverted quickly. I think everyone is pretty antsy and wants to be the one that sells at the top and buys right back in at the bottom. The stock market has a lot to do with psychology
Market will crash, not if, but when.

Market will recover, not if but when.

I am thinking it happens in the next year or so, just becareful. Idea is long term, but best idea is get out on the way down well before bottom, get back in after bottom on the way back up.

Do that and you will easy double your money in 2-3 years. Its a trick though, and everyone is trying to do it.
This I agree with. What signals do you usually look for to get out in a bull market?
 
Forgot I posted in this. Anyways, if everything goes according to plan, I should be debt free within a year and a half. I paid off my huge credit card. Got Invisalign and now working to pay that off fast. My student loans should be gone as well. Will be opening a Roth IRA in the near future so I may be back in here
 
Forgot I posted in this. Anyways, if everything goes according to plan, I should be debt free within a year and a half. I paid off my huge credit card. Got Invisalign and now working to pay that off fast. My student loans should be gone as well. Will be opening a Roth IRA in the near future so I may be back in here
Use Vanguard.
 
All it takes is fear to make the market crash. Volatility spikes when the market goes down... because everyone is just playing chicken with each other. I think this market is just itching for some sort of catalyst to bring it back in line. Right before the French election there was a huge spike in VIX futures. Right after Comey was fired there was a huge spike in VIX futures. Both reverted quickly. I think everyone is pretty antsy and wants to be the one that sells at the top and buys right back in at the bottom. The stock market has a lot to do with psychology

This I agree with. What signals do you usually look for to get out in a bull market?

You are a bit ahead of me it seems on risk and really knowledge of market. I am better than average person for sure, but really dont like the more advanced products.

I put my max 18k a year into my 401k, and then am very conservative on personal non retirement assets. Its just my strategy to be diversified.

I do take stock tips and have between 20-50k in the market typically at any time, but i have yet to short anyone in the market personally, although I might dive into that soon.

What I will say is I have a very good friend that has made over 2 million in the market and he gives me the occasional tip and he is who i follow allot the last 4 or 5 years.

As for signals for bull market, i really only look at trends. I like graphs, i am good at them at will look at various common indicators. I am looking for a obvious turn in the market. So Dow (which is my least favorite), Nasdaq and S&P 500. I will look at day over day treds, and I tend to look at monthly trends to see if market is turning. I look for pivot points, floors and ceilings. Typically when a bull market has broken two or three floors (in my opinion) is when i feel the market has turned and I change my investment strategy. Pull out of the stock on personal side, and go conservative in 401k.

This strategy will always mean i am not getting the most at the top and I lose a bit when it turns at the bottom, but it has proven effective for me. Investing really is a personal comfort thing and I think your strategy seems awesome. I know for a fact my strategy will have me at a few million in my 401k at retirement and that is good enough for me. But yours when done correct could get to the few million well before retirement..

PS, as for mutual funds, yes i am paying people to invest, but with a proven track record I am ok with that concept. Its what I know and what I am comfortable with. I am actively working on getting my house paid for, yes ironic for a mortgage guy and will buy some rental for cash before retirement too. I have flipped a couple of houses, but while fun, is allot of effort for what seems about 10-20k net in return after everyone including IRS gets paid.
 
So I'm looking to open a roth ira in addition to my roth 401k I have through my roth 401k since my roth 401k has limited options for investing (and I have maxed my company match). I'm looking for a roth ira account that has the best mutual funds available from which to select. Low fees are nice, but all mutual funds' listed returns are fees adjusted, so I'm really after the roth ira with the highest return mutual funds available. Trade fees, no load mutual funds, and amount needed to invest to sign up are also important to me.
 

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