Halo: Reach

[TheISHT]

In my opinion the recent titles have been overrated (Halo 3/ODST/Halo Wars), but to say the entire franchise is overrated is another thing. The original Halo changed first person shooters forever with it's controls and gameplay. Halo 2 was the most revolutionary game ever in terms of online multiplayer. Halo 3 went a little off course but still introduced forge mode and replay saving/sharing to consoles.

With that being said I think that this upcoming game deserves the hype it is receiving. It is the final Halo game and the end of an incredible ride. Bungie has been the king of first person shooters for almost a decade now and with other game developers finally catching up to them, I can't wait to see what they put out.

When it's all said and done, Halo will be right behind Mario and Zelda as the most successful franchises of all time in my opinion. Just out of curiosity, what current games would you put ahead of the Halo series?

NM

 

[Man Called X]

So where did you download it from?? No way in hell you have a retail copy. I hope MS bans your xbox. You software pirates are fucking scum of Earth. You either have it illegally or are a call of duty fanboy just talking shit about the game that doesnt have it or never planned on getting it just saying you have it to boost your internet ego. Why dont you post a picture of it??

Someone just jealous they don't work in retail?

For further clarification. I've had boxes of it for roughly 2 weeks already. We had Madden sitting there for about 2-3 weeks. Large releases we get extremely early. Small releases, 3-4 days early.

Eat a dick.

 

[Chris]

In my opinion the recent titles have been overrated (Halo 3/ODST/Halo Wars), but to say the entire franchise is overrated is another thing. The original Halo changed first person shooters forever with it's controls and gameplay. Halo 2 was the most revolutionary game ever in terms of online multiplayer. Halo 3 went a little off course but still introduced forge mode and replay saving/sharing to consoles.

With that being said I think that this upcoming game deserves the hype it is receiving. It is the final Halo game and the end of an incredible ride. Bungie has been the king of first person shooters for almost a decade now and with other game developers finally catching up to them, I can't wait to see what they put out.

When it's all said and done, Halo will be right behind Mario and Zelda as the most successful franchises of all time in my opinion. Just out of curiosity, what current games would you put ahead of the Halo series?

Disagree...this is coming from a guy who followed Halo since 1999 when it was a MAC/PC game, and I was a HUGE fan of it. Then it got made Xbox exclusive and changed around a lot...blah blah you know the story.

I like the original game a lot and I enjoy the series. But Halo 2 and 3 were pretty lame, overall. 2 more so than 3. Halo 3 was actually pretty good I guess. I never did get into the multiplayer a ton so that is probably why I have this opinion. You seem like you got into the online/MP portion big time like a lot of people did and obviously it's going to feel like the second coming of Christ to First person shooters if you're one of those people. I know a lot of people played the fuck out of Halo 2 and 3 online...to me, I was never impressed. Free mods like Counter Strike and Day of Defeat especially were a lot more fun and interesting to me.

Half Life is a better game than Halo, and Half Life 2 shits all over the entire Halo series which is why saying Bungie is the king of first person shooters has me scratching my head. That is the game that truly revolutionized the FPS genre- although you may have just been talking console wise in which case I agree totally.

To your last point- what do you mean? What game franchises do I like more than the Halo series? Or what first person shooter franchises do I think are better? Clarify your question and I will certainly answer it..

edit: And this will not be the final Halo game. Cash cows don't just go away.

 

[Quitness]

Disagree...this is coming from a guy who followed Halo since 1999 when it was a MAC/PC game, and I was a HUGE fan of it. Then it got made Xbox exclusive and changed around a lot...blah blah you know the story.

I like the original game a lot and I enjoy the series. But Halo 2 and 3 were pretty lame, overall. 2 more so than 3. Halo 3 was actually pretty good I guess. I never did get into the multiplayer a ton so that is probably why I have this opinion. You seem like you got into the online/MP portion big time like a lot of people did and obviously it's going to feel like the second coming of Christ to First person shooters if you're one of those people. I know a lot of people played the fuck out of Halo 2 and 3 online...to me, I was never impressed. Free mods like Counter Strike and Day of Defeat especially were a lot more fun and interesting to me.

Half Life is a better game than Halo, and Half Life 2 shits all over the entire Halo series which is why saying Bungie is the king of first person shooters has me scratching my head. That is the game that truly revolutionized the FPS genre- although you may have just been talking console wise in which case I agree totally.

To your last point- what do you mean? What game franchises do I like more than the Halo series? Or what first person shooter franchises do I think are better? Clarify your question and I will certainly answer it..

edit: And this will not be the final Halo game. Cash cows don't just go away.

Yeah I was speaking mainly for console based first person shooters. In my opinion there isn't a FPS franchise on a console that compares to the impact that Halo has had over the past 10 years. I should have clarified that. If you bring CS and Half-Life into the picture then it's a bit of a different story (I admit to not playing much of Half-Life though). Counterstrike was absolutely huge for online multiplayer. I do tend to split up those two fields (console/PC) because it's a different gaming experience to me.

Just to clear something up, by no means am I a Halo fanboy. I didn't even buy Halo Wars or ODST because those games were total cash crops put out with a Halo name to make money. I do think that you missed out on Halo 2 though. Hands down my favorite and most played game online, which made up for the games less than stellar campaign (compared to Halo 1). In my opinion that was the peak of franchise because it was so user-friendly. Online stat tracking, pre/post game lobbies after games, clans/clan matches, a unforgiving leveling system, 4 map packs, friends list tab that opened by the hit of one button (the inspiration for the 360's current interface/guide button). I could go on and on but I'm sure you could as well if you were to pick out your favorite shooter franchise and analyze it.

In regards to my question, I wanted to know what console shooter franchise you'd put ahead Halo. Personally I hated the COD franchise until they moved onto Modern Warfare and the Battlefield games I've never been a fan of for their control scheme and overall gameplay. Those always seem to be the games that people debate with me about being better than Halo.

Also, I do think that Bungie is truly done with Halo for now. That all depends though on how well their next franchise does though. If it bombs then I'd expect them to go back to their roots. On the other hand I think that's highly unlikely as long as they flash that Bungie logo before the start of their title. Fanboys will be sure to go out and buy it.

 

[TyGuy]

There was absolutely nothing revolutionary about Halo. Everything Halo did had been done years before on PC.

 

[Quitness]

There was absolutely nothing revolutionary about Halo. Everything Halo did had been done years before on PC.

Not true. If you base your opinion off of aspects like dual-wielding and vehicle riding then that could be accurate because previous games had played around with a lot of those ideas used in Halo games. Halo however was the first game to take all of those elements and make them all work together. In terms of it being revolutionary, it was the first game to support dual analog sticks for movement. Every console shooter still mimics the Halo control scheme to this day. Also, Bungie.net was pretty revolutionary in itself, displaying all online stats of your gamertag including a complete summary for every match you've ever played. Also, at the time when the first Halo was released, the graphics and character animations were unlike anything ever seen on a console before.

 

[TyGuy]

Not true. If you base your opinion off of aspects like dual-wielding and vehicle riding then that could be accurate because previous games had played around with a lot of those ideas used in Halo games. Halo however was the first game to take all of those elements and make them all work together. In terms of it being revolutionary, it was the first game to support dual analog sticks for movement. Every console shooter still mimics the Halo control scheme to this day. Also, Bungie.net was pretty revolutionary in itself, displaying all online stats of your gamertag including a complete summary for every match you've ever played. Also, at the time when the first Halo was released, the graphics and character animations were unlike anything ever seen on a console before.

I still fail to see anything revolutionary about halo. Duel wielding had been done with rise of the triads. Vehicle combat was done, and better implemented with the tribes series. Competitive online gaming had been done as far back as I can remember with duke nukem 3d with competitive ladders. So what are you left with, the use of duel analog stick? Really?

To me that's a giant step back from the standard pc's had set with the mouse and keyboard. You could take any competent pc first person shooter player, drop him into a halo game, and he would absolutely destroy the very best halo players on the planet. That's how much of a disadvantage you put yourself at playing with a clumsy, imprecise gamepad.

 

[Chris]

Yeah I was speaking mainly for console based first person shooters. In my opinion there isn't a FPS franchise on a console that compares to the impact that Halo has had over the past 10 years. I should have clarified that. If you bring CS and Half-Life into the picture then it's a bit of a different story (I admit to not playing much of Half-Life though). Counterstrike was absolutely huge for online multiplayer. I do tend to split up those two fields (console/PC) because it's a different gaming experience to me.

Just to clear something up, by no means am I a Halo fanboy. I didn't even buy Halo Wars or ODST because those games were total cash crops put out with a Halo name to make money. I do think that you missed out on Halo 2 though. Hands down my favorite and most played game online, which made up for the games less than stellar campaign (compared to Halo 1). In my opinion that was the peak of franchise because it was so user-friendly. Online stat tracking, pre/post game lobbies after games, clans/clan matches, a unforgiving leveling system, 4 map packs, friends list tab that opened by the hit of one button (the inspiration for the 360's current interface/guide button). I could go on and on but I'm sure you could as well if you were to pick out your favorite shooter franchise and analyze it.

In regards to my question, I wanted to know what console shooter franchise you'd put ahead Halo. Personally I hated the COD franchise until they moved onto Modern Warfare and the Battlefield games I've never been a fan of for their control scheme and overall gameplay. Those always seem to be the games that people debate with me about being better than Halo.

Also, I do think that Bungie is truly done with Halo for now. That all depends though on how well their next franchise does though. If it bombs then I'd expect them to go back to their roots. On the other hand I think that's highly unlikely as long as they flash that Bungie logo before the start of their title. Fanboys will be sure to go out and buy it.

There aren't many good console shooter franchises at all. If we're talking consoles, Halo is easily the best cadre of FPS games.

I like FPS games but not many meet my standards. edit: I'm in a rush right now but I'll post some of my all time fav games to tell you what sort of stuff I like.

TyGuy just reminded me of Starsiege: Tribes. Holy fuck, probably the best online FPS experiences I've had.

 

[Quitness]

I still fail to see anything revolutionary about halo. Duel wielding had been done with rise of the triads. Vehicle combat was done, and better implemented with the tribes series. Competitive online gaming had been done as far back as I can remember with duke nukem 3d with competitive ladders. So what are you left with, the use of duel analog stick? Really?

To me that's a giant step back from the standard pc's had set with the mouse and keyboard. You could take any competent pc first person shooter player, drop him into a halo game, and he would absolutely destroy the very best halo players on the planet. That's how much of a disadvantage you put yourself at playing with a clumsy, imprecise gamepad.

Did you read my post thoroughly? I said that dual wielding and vehicles weren't revolutionary. But to even compare the complexity of Halo's multiplayer system to Duke Nukem 3D is laughable. It is much more than just a competitive gaming environment. Not to mention that you ignored the existence of Bungie.net in my post. It makes me wonder if you've ever even sat down and played the series seeing your infatuation with PC titles. It's just plain ignorant to believe that any PC gamer would "destroy" the best Halo players on the planet. Every video game takes many hours to master, regardless of what type of controller you use.

 

[TyGuy]

Did you read my post thoroughly? I said that dual wielding and vehicles weren't revolutionary. But to even compare the complexity of Halo's multiplayer system to Duke Nukem 3D is laughable. It is much more than just a competitive gaming environment. Not to mention that you ignored the existence of Bungie.net in my post. It makes me wonder if you've ever even sat down and played the series seeing your infatuation with PC titles. It's just plain ignorant to believe that any PC gamer would "destroy" the best Halo players on the planet. Every video game takes many hours to master, regardless of what type of controller you use.

Yes, I read your post in it's entirety. I was just trying to show you examples of games that had everything you described, but were done YEARS prior. I still dont see whats so thrilling about bungie.net or how it was revolutionizing the gaming world. PC games had dedicated servers as far back as the original quake, and again competitive gaming was not some new revelation.

I will also stick by my statement of an average pc fps player being dropped into a game of halo, and absolutely destroying the very best the planet has to offer. Until you play with a mouse and keyboard, you have no idea how natural, or how precise that setup is. They actually did a competition WITH HALO and the pc gamers mopped the floor with experienced halo veterans on the xbox.

I don't think the article is up anymore, but I do have a forum post referring to the match. It's the very last post on that thread.

http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1262502

 

[Man Called X]

Did you read my post thoroughly? I said that dual wielding and vehicles weren't revolutionary. But to even compare the complexity of Halo's multiplayer system to Duke Nukem 3D is laughable. It is much more than just a competitive gaming environment. Not to mention that you ignored the existence of Bungie.net in my post. It makes me wonder if you've ever even sat down and played the series seeing your infatuation with PC titles. It's just plain ignorant to believe that any PC gamer would "destroy" the best Halo players on the planet. Every video game takes many hours to master, regardless of what type of controller you use.

I'd like to agree with TyGuy, because skill wise, most PC gamers are of higher skill level than the average console user.

It's just that control schemes are so shitty using your thumbs rather than a mouse and keys, even the best PC gamer would have a bit of trouble adjusting to a console.

Now, replace my controller with a keyboard/mouse, and every Halo fanatic would be getting raped on a daily basis.

 

[TyGuy]

I'd like to agree with TyGuy, because skill wise, most PC gamers are of higher skill level than the average console user.

It's just that control schemes are so shitty using your thumbs rather than a mouse and keys, even the best PC gamer would have a bit of trouble adjusting to a console.

Now, replace my controller with a keyboard/mouse, and every Halo fanatic would be getting raped on a daily basis.

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind if you were given a mouse keyboard setup, and allowed to play halo 1-3 you would be the very best player there is, and it wouldn't even be close. Providing of course you have some experience with pc gaming, which it seems like you do. Although i'm pretty confident somebody completely new to gaming given the mouse and keyboard setup would learn very quickly, and would ascend to the very top. Assuming he has some decent hand eye coordination.

My step bro is a perfect example. He never played first person shooters (pc or console) until he got a new videocard to improve his WOW visuals and performance. I introduced him to team fortress 2 on pc, and within a weekend he was a competent player. After seeing him progress in the past 6 months he would probably be in the same boat as X

 

[Man Called X]

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind if you were given a mouse keyboard setup, and allowed to play halo 1-3 you would be the very best player there is, and it wouldn't even be close. Providing of course you have some experience with pc gaming, which it seems like you do. Although i'm pretty confident somebody completely new to gaming given the mouse and keyboard setup would learn very quickly, and would ascend to the very top. Assuming he has some decent hand eye coordination.

My step bro is a perfect example. He never played first person shooters (pc or console) until he got a new videocard to improve his WOW visuals and performance. I introduced him to team fortress 2 on pc, and within a weekend he was a competent player. After seeing him progress in the past 6 months he would probably be in the same boat as X

Heh, I was actually a top ranked player in CS for a while, and just to make console lovers happy, even on L4D. I'm no stranger to FPS or competitive gaming.

And for anyone that thinks Bungie is king of the FPS? Go fuck yourself. That honor will always be reserved for Valve.

 

[Quitness]

I am in no way disagreeing that a keyboard and mouse is more difficult as well as more precise than using a controller. I just can't see how someone with zero experience in a game could be dropped into a game and automatically wreck people who play 24/7. If its the same game that they are "masters at" and the players were using their respective platforms than I would agree the PC users would likely show the console users.

Going back to the original argument though, I do think that a lot of it has to do with someones gaming background. I experienced Halo first then moved on to discover titles on the PC. A lot of that had to do with not having high speed internet until the release of Halo 2. Keeping that in mind I wouldn't say that I'm entirely biased to gaming on consoles but at the time of Halo's release I guess you could say that it was all new to me. If anything, I think that Halo was at least innovative to gaming on consoles, more so than in gaming in general.

 

[Chris]

And for anyone that thinks Bungie is king of the FPS? Go fuck yourself. That honor will always be reserved for Valve.

Yeah, the games Valve crafted with Half-Life and Half-Life 2 are just utterly legendary. Especially HL1. The mods that game spawned were ludicrous. Counter Strike gets all the rep but Day of Defeat was even better. I think I poured thousands of hours into them total. The single player portion of the game was so chock full of atmosphere and details (for that time), seemed like around every corner there was some new terror to face.

I'm having a hard time thinking of other truly great FPS games. I do think the original Halo has to be up there. For their times, Goldeneye and Perfect Dark, obviously, but they don't withstand the test of time like Halo and Half Life. I mentioned Tribes. In terms of online/multiplayer components (that game was pretty much online-only with up to 120 players) that had to be one of the coolest, most competitive FPS titles. It's too bad the follow ups didn't live up to the original.

We live in a day and age where the FPS genre just doesn't do it in terms of AAA titles anymore and it has given way to hybrids like Deus Ex (the third installment comes out in about 6 months and looks better than ever) and Bioshock.