Kenny Smith said that Kobe Bryant is still the best player in the league

[Typhoon]

Aw yeah, check out the new sig.

 

[CzBoobie]

The biggest factor in comparing LeBron and Kobe at the moment is what they've achieved with the teams they had built around them. They have both had some shitty teams over the past few years. Kobe gets a legit team, he takes it to the finals the same year they add Gasol. LeBron finally gets a legit team (I'm not going to count the 08-09 team as legit, because, frankly, it was a fucking joke... that somehow still managed to win 66 games in the regular season) and he apparently just gives up. Weak. If Kobe and the Lakers win another 'ship this season, it's settled. Kobe would be able to do what LeBron wasn't.

What would that be? Win another 'ship with superior cast?

If the Lakers beat the Celtics when Gasol sucks against Garnett and Artest fails to check Pierce while Kobe shuts down Rondo, then all power to Kobe, that would be an impressive win on his behalf...

 

[LakersFan25]

Re: kenny smith said that kobe bryant is still the best player in the league in his e

Kobe Bryant hasn't won anything without Shaq or Gasol. He rode Shaq's coattails and he couldn't lead his team anywhere without being gifted Gasol from Memphis.

If Kobe is so fucking great, why is it that he finished so low on the MVP voting? Why is it that he couldn't lead a Shaq less or Gasol less team anywhere, acted like a diva, flirted with the Clippers, and threw his teammates under the bus while wanting to be traded? If he's so invaluable, why is it that the Lakers have shown that they can win without him?

The hype this guy gets is undeserved. He's not even the best player on his team right now.

You are a moron...

Allow me to elaborate, first and foremost I think Lebron is a phenomenal talent and will someday win a few championships. But Kobe's 4 rings, 6 finals appearances, perhaps soon to be 5 rings and 7 finals appearances in a 14 season career is not 'LUCKY'. I understand you probably don't understand basketball.

You see Lebron and his fast acting moves and unstoppable speed and go, whoa, CLEARLY he is he is the best player in the NBA right? What you really don't understand is Lebron has the best ATHLETIC talent for the time being and the serious potential to add leadership and hunger to his game. As of right now he does NOT have either. I can forgive him for not showing up to game 6 @ Boston, but never in my life have I seen Kobe give up on his team 2-2 with game 5 @ home.

Oh and by the way I find it hilarious that during the regular season most of you were proclaiming that this team is so talented and Lebron finally has a stacked team and you are not worried about any team now suddenly it's oh Lebron has no supporting cast no fair! Kobe has Gasol, so his rings don't count. LOL yeah, you obviously don't watch Lakers basketball alot.

This is a guy who has three 7 footers in Shaq, AV, and Big Z, he has a all-star forward in Antawn Jamison, he has an amazingly underrated PG in Mo Williams. He also has a solid supporting cast in JJ Hickson, Moon, and Delonte West. You add Lebron to the mix and the dude can't even make it to the Finals the last few years or even past the 2nd round.

Meanwhile, yes Kobe does have Gasol, but he also has the worst PG in the NBA right now in Derek Fisher, Mr. Inconsistant Lamar Odom, Mr. My knee always is injured and I can only play 10 minutes a game in andrew bynum, and Ron Artest who has had horrible offense most of this year. Add the fact that there is NO bench on the Lakers and it amazes me that we have made it so far.

 

[BruceBowensFoot]

This season's team wasn't even that much better than last season's team, if at all (and yes, this can be verified).

Really?

REALLY???

You think this season's team wasn't "that much better" than last year's team? Who was on last year's team? Ben Wallace? Sasha? Kinsey (who?)? Z as our starting forward? Wally? Jesus God Almighty...

And yes, I would still call this team legit. It was built to pretty much rely on LeBron's playmaking skills and LeBron didn't show up. With as much versatility as it had and all these players being talented in some aspect, I'd say it was a pretty good team. I guess until a team wins an actual championship, it's not "legit"... What if Bron had Chris Paul, Joe Johnson, Amare and Noah as teammates and still lose? I guess that team wouldn't be legit either. You guys are kidding yourselves if you think this team never had a chance at going to the finals and winning it all.

Honestly, I don't think the biggest fault is LeBron's. It's Brown's for not knowing how to use all that depth he had on his team. But LeBron is easily the most disappointing out of the lot. Especially after the "you're going to see a whole different monster from now on" comments he made before the playoffs.

 

[CzBoobie]

Really?

REALLY???

You think this season's team wasn't "that much better" than last year's team? Who was on last year's team? Ben Wallace? Sasha? Kinsey (who?)? Z as our starting forward? Wally? Jesus God Almighty...

And yes, I would still call this team legit. It was built to pretty much rely on LeBron's playmaking skills and LeBron didn't show up. With as much versatility as it had and all these players being talented in some aspect, I'd say it was a pretty good team. I guess until a team wins an actual championship, it's not "legit"... What if Bron had Chris Paul, Joe Johnson, Amare and Noah as teammates and still lose? I guess that team wouldn't be legit either. You guys are kidding yourselves if you think this team never had a chance at going to the finals and winning it all.

Honestly, I don't think the biggest fault is LeBron's. It's Brown's for not knowing how to use all that depth he had on his team. But LeBron is easily the most disappointing out of the lot. Especially after the "you're going to see a whole different monster from now on" comments he made before the playoffs.

Seriously, go look at how Mo Williams and Jamison played in the series and how they got abused by their counterparts. That's two best players outside Lebron. Now go look at what no shows were two most important bench pieces for various reasons (West and Varejao). Add to that fifth most important piece causing some chemistry issues (Shaq) and a coach that doesn't have any idea what to do with that mess. Still looking great, right?

 

[LBJ23MJ]

Really?

REALLY???

You think this season's team wasn't "that much better" than last year's team? Who was on last year's team? Ben Wallace? Sasha? Kinsey (who?)? Z as our starting forward? Wally? Jesus God Almighty...

Easy, Bruce Almighty. No need to get excited.

Yes this year wasn't that much better than last year's. Little better offensively, a little worse defensively (and that's with factoring in LeBron missing a few games and the end of the season). And not as consistent in the playoffs.

 

[flamez]

What if Bron had Chris Paul, Joe Johnson, Amare and Noah as teammates and still lose? I guess that team wouldn't be legit either. You guys are kidding yourselves if you think this team never had a chance at going to the finals and winning it all.

Honestly, I don't think the biggest fault is LeBron's. It's Brown's for not knowing how to use all that depth he had on his team. But LeBron is easily the most disappointing out of the lot. Especially after the "you're going to see a whole different monster from now on" comments he made before the playoffs.

First of all Lebron DIDN"T have Chris Paul, Joe Johnson, Amare and Noah.
Mo Williams was our PG, he played horribly on both ends of the floor.
Parker and Delonte were our SG's, Ray Allen abused them.
Jamison was our PF, he got humiliated by KG.
Shaq was our center, and his presence alone gave the Celtics an advantage.

Why the heck would you even bring up CP3, Johnson, Amare, etc??

I agree that Mike Brown is the biggest culprit.

As far as Lebron's comment goes, he made that comment and didn't play well enough to back it up. But, he made that comment from a team prospective.

 

[BruceBowensFoot]

Still looking great, right?

I'd say it's looking like how a lot of people were calling Gasol soft after the Lakers lost to the C's in '08. Then they win the title the following year and suddenly everyone's championing him, saying he's easily Top 3 big men in the league. It's all perspective.

Bynum barely did anything in last year's playoffs (all of it). He's part of Kobe's awesome supporting cast, too. Sure, Kobe has had some bad games and his team has somehow managed to pick up the slack, but the lakers haven't had that great of a team either, you know. Besides Bynum, Fisher is a borderline joke due to his age. And other than Odom (who usually brings a solid contribution), their bench is pathetic. Name one player on that bench except him you could say something - anything - positive about.

What were the biggest complaints roster-wise after losing to the Magic last year?

Lack of a good second scoring option.
Lack of muscle at the C position.
Lack of a better bench
Length at the 2-spot
Better swing-men than Wally, Sasha and Kinsey

Looks to me like we improved on all of those to some degree. But I guess to some people we just didn't do it well enough...

 

[LBJ23MJ]

Re: kenny smith said that kobe bryant is still the best player in the league in his e

You are a moron...

Allow me to elaborate, first and foremost I think Lebron is a phenomenal talent and will someday win a few championships. But Kobe's 4 rings, 6 finals appearances, perhaps soon to be 5 rings and 7 finals appearances in a 14 season career is not 'LUCKY'. I understand you probably don't understand basketball.

I was gonna address the part about luck there, but I'll hold up on that. Better suited for a philosophy thread.

You see Lebron and his fast acting moves and unstoppable speed and go, whoa, CLEARLY he is he is the best player in the NBA right? What you really don't understand is Lebron has the best ATHLETIC talent for the time being and the serious potential to add leadership and hunger to his game. As of right now he does NOT have either. I can forgive him for not showing up to game 6 @ Boston, but never in my life have I seen Kobe give up on his team 2-2 with game 5 @ home.

Not a lack of hunger, just reliable playoff running mates. And yes, you've seen Kobe give invisible performances before, and all to "spite" his teammates (game 4 against the Thunder).

And that's just one example.

Oh and by the way I find it hilarious that during the regular season most of you were proclaiming that this team is so talented and Lebron finally has a stacked team and you are not worried about any team now suddenly it's oh Lebron has no supporting cast no fair! Kobe has Gasol, so his rings don't count. LOL yeah, you obviously don't watch Lakers basketball alot.

Well I can't speak for the other posters here, but even with Antawn I always wondered about the Cavs as a whole's abliity to play well in the playoffs outside of Bron (and also Shaq, but he's past his prime).

This is a guy who has three 7 footers in Shaq, AV, and Big Z, he has a all-star forward in Antawn Jamison, he has an amazingly underrated PG in Mo Williams. He also has a solid supporting cast in JJ Hickson, Moon, and Delonte West. You add Lebron to the mix and the dude can't even make it to the Finals the last few years or even past the 2nd round.

Of all those players, only Moon bothered to show up in the playoffs along with LeBron. And I love the "underrated" Mo Williams comment. Wanna take him off our hands for us? We'll throw in a bag of pretzels while we're at it.

Meanwhile, yes Kobe does have Gasol, but he also has the worst PG in the NBA right now in Derek Fisher, Mr. Inconsistant Lamar Odom, Mr. My knee always is injured and I can only play 10 minutes a game in andrew bynum, and Ron Artest who has had horrible offense most of this year. Add the fact that there is NO bench on the Lakers and it amazes me that we have made it so far.

Meh, Derek is long in the tooth but isn't the WORST pg out there. Odom is alot better player than you give him credit for, Ron is probably the one you're looking for inconsistency here. And Bynum has been terrific even with limited minutes.

 

[flamez]

I'd say it's looking like how a lot of people were calling Gasol soft after the Lakers lost to the C's in '08. Then they win the title the following year and suddenly everyone's championing him, saying he's easily Top 3 big men in the league. It's all perspective.

Bynum barely did anything in last year's playoffs (all of it). He's part of Kobe's awesome supporting cast, too. Sure, Kobe has had some bad games and his team has somehow managed to pick up the slack, but the lakers haven't had that great of a team either, you know. Besides Bynum, Fisher is a borderline joke due to his age. And other than Odom (who usually brings a solid contribution), their bench is pathetic. Name one player on that bench except him you could say something - anything - positive about.

What were the biggest complaints roster-wise after losing to the Magic last year?

Lack of a good second scoring option.
Lack of muscle at the C position.
Lack of a better bench
Length at the 2-spot
Better swing-men than Wally, Sasha and Kinsey

Looks to me like we improved on all of those to some degree. But I guess to some people we just didn't do it well enough...

Look at what the Laker's starting lineup produces and compare it to what the Cavs starting lineup did in the playoffs. You don't need all-star talent at every position. The Lakers have an advantage in size against pretty much every team and they expose it well.

If Derrick Fisher is a joke due to his age, then what is Mo Williams??? Mo is younger than Fisher yet he plays like crap in the postseason. Age does not mean a certain player is automatically better. Mo does not contribute consistently in the playoffs.

Why don't you name one player from OUR BENCH that you could say something positive about??
WIth the Lakers, I'll give you a name Lamar Odom. Now name me someone from our team who has played anywhere close to what Lamar does for the Lakers.


I'll also tackle the things you said we improved on to some degree:
Lack of second scoring option- You say we improved on this? Where was this second option in the series against the Celtics?? Jamison, Mo, Shaq?
Lack of muscle at the C position- Shaq is strong, yes, but his presence in the series slowed us down and everyone knows the best way to beat boston is through athleticism. Him missing point blanks shots helped the Celtics and Rondo push the ball in transition.
Lack of a better bench- Again, where was our "great depth"? Boston's bench outplayed ours. Rasheed Wallace outplayed Andy, and Tony Allen and Big Baby were huge for them. Where was our bench?
Length at the 2 spot- Again, it did not help against Ray Allen. He got to his spots and rained jumpshots. The fact that Rondo was abusing us and we were trying to hide Mo on Ray Allen should show you the position we were in.


It seems like you didn't really watch the series.

 

[LBJ23MJ]

I'd say it's looking like how a lot of people were calling Gasol soft after the Lakers lost to the C's in '08. Then they win the title the following year and suddenly everyone's championing him, saying he's easily Top 3 big men in the league. It's all perspective.

Didn't call him soft then. Trust me. I knew the Lakers were getting one of the league's better players once they picked him up from Memphis for nothing (at the time at least). And what was even better is that they picked him up at the time when players typically play their best ball, in their late 20s. That's the thing people overlook, but I'd say that was they REAL key to the whole Gasol pickup.

Bynum barely did anything in last year's playoffs (all of it). He's part of Kobe's awesome supporting cast, too. Sure, Kobe has had some bad games and his team has somehow managed to pick up the slack, but the lakers haven't had that great of a team either, you know. Besides Bynum, Fisher is a borderline joke due to his age. And other than Odom (who usually brings a solid contribution), their bench is pathetic. Name one player on that bench except him you could say something - anything - positive about.

You talking about this year or last year? Because their bench was awesome last year. This year, not so much, but Farmar has played well in the playoffs. Not that the starting 5 hasn't made up for it and THEN some though.

What were the biggest complaints roster-wise after losing to the Magic last year?

Lack of a good second scoring option.
Lack of muscle at the C position.
Lack of a better bench
Length at the 2-spot
Better swing-men than Wally, Sasha and Kinsey

Looks to me like we improved on all of those to some degree. But I guess to some people we just didn't do it well enough...

Once again, what have these upgrades done in the playoffs?

Anyways, I'll let flamez and CzBron take it from here if they want to. I think I've exhausted my main points with regards this thread.

 

[wremy]

Re: kenny smith said that kobe bryant is still the best player in the league in his e

Kobe Bryant hasn't won anything without Shaq or Gasol. He rode Shaq's coattails and he couldn't lead his team anywhere without being gifted Gasol from Memphis.

If Kobe is so fucking great, why is it that he finished so low on the MVP voting? Why is it that he couldn't lead a Shaq less or Gasol less team anywhere, acted like a diva, flirted with the Clippers, and threw his teammates under the bus while wanting to be traded? If he's so invaluable, why is it that the Lakers have shown that they can win without him?

The hype this guy gets is undeserved. He's not even the best player on his team right now.

Kobe has way more killer instinct then LBJ...I dont like Kobe at all but he is out to kick your ass when he plays you and isn't worried about being your buddy or making up dumbass handshakes or fake pictures pre-game....he gets the shot he wants when he wants it and very seldomly will you ever see him take a dumb shot in a clutch situation...he is the most clutch player in the game right now and is battling 3 injuries and playing at an extremely high level....after what LBJ showed heart and desire wise vs Boston he will not be and shouldn't be considered the best player in the league....the rest of the TNT crew seen what we seen too....a MVP quit on himself,his team,and his city...all of you LBJ apologist need to wake the fuck up....Larry,Magic,or MJ woulda never pulled no shit like that and if you think Gasol is better than Kobe than you have no clue about hoop....gimme a fucking break

Also vs OKC he said gimme Westbrook....I really wish LBJ woulda said that about Rondo...also in big situation Kobe is takin the shot and if he misses its on him...LBJ is still too passive and gets credited for being a team player which he is but given the ball to Andy 15 ft+ away from the hoop or DeLonte with 5 secs on the shot clock multiple times when he is 20ft away from the hoop isn't being a good team player its being fucking stupid and not using your head

Anyway as of right now after what I seen I'd want Kobe leading my team anyday of the week over LBJ...doesn't mean LBJ couldn't beat him 1 on 1 but I know if guys were fucking up Kobe would be in their shit about it...not standing in the corner pouting about it while his team went down 15-20 points multiple times at home in a huge playoff series.........Sorry that last series will stand out to me until next years playoffs and I won't give a shit about the regular season stats or great games LBJ may habe next year either until we are back in the Finals and winning it...if he even comes back...I lost alot of confidence in him to bring us a title even if he did sign another 3 year deal here....I hope I am wrong

 

[LebonJaymes]

First of all Lebron DIDN"T have Chris Paul, Joe Johnson, Amare and Noah.
Mo Williams was our PG, he played horribly on both ends of the floor.
Parker and Delonte were our SG's, Ray Allen abused them.
Jamison was our PF, he got humiliated by KG.
Shaq was our center, and his presence alone gave the Celtics an advantage.

Why the heck would you even bring up CP3, Johnson, Amare, etc??

I agree that Mike Brown is the biggest culprit.

As far as Lebron's comment goes, he made that comment and didn't play well enough to back it up. But, he made that comment from a team prospective.

My God. You are so dumb. Read carefully... He said What IF.

Just because they were outplayed that doesn't mean they are now scrubs. Wtf.. I guess all of you said this Roster is better and more deep. Now what happened? From better to worse? I cant believe you guys.

 

[CzBoobie]

I'd say it's looking like how a lot of people were calling Gasol soft after the Lakers lost to the C's in '08. Then they win the title the following year and suddenly everyone's championing him, saying he's easily Top 3 big men in the league. It's all perspective.

Bynum barely did anything in last year's playoffs (all of it). He's part of Kobe's awesome supporting cast, too. Sure, Kobe has had some bad games and his team has somehow managed to pick up the slack, but the lakers haven't had that great of a team either, you know. Besides Bynum, Fisher is a borderline joke due to his age. And other than Odom (who usually brings a solid contribution), their bench is pathetic. Name one player on that bench except him you could say something - anything - positive about.

What were the biggest complaints roster-wise after losing to the Magic last year?

Lack of a good second scoring option.
Lack of muscle at the C position.
Lack of a better bench
Length at the 2-spot
Better swing-men than Wally, Sasha and Kinsey

Looks to me like we improved on all of those to some degree. But I guess to some people we just didn't do it well enough...

Those are just general phrases that unfortunately have no bearing on reality. I'm not going by what we THOUGHT we have, yes, almost everybody liked the team but they have to perform like that. They didn't...at all. It always looked to me like Mo is the key to this team. When he does well, the team is almost unbeatable (just look at what difference it was when he played very well for like 10 minutes in game 1). Too bad he is capable of doing that only in the regular season. He was atrocious in both playoffs. Pretty much negative value to the team.

In '08 people were calling Gasol out because he didn't deliver what was expected from him, simple as that. Now he is a top 3 big man in the league and he DELIVERS. Once again, come back to me when Kobe (Lakers) beats the Celtics when his teammates fail to deliver against their opposition. Then I'll have to change my opinion...

 

[Photon]

Those are just general phrases that unfortunately have no bearing on reality. I'm not going by what we THOUGHT we have, yes, almost everybody liked the team but they have to perform like that. They didn't...at all. It always looked to me like Mo is the key to this team. When he does well, the team is almost unbeatable (just look at what difference it was when he played very well for like 10 minutes in game 1). Too bad he is capable of doing that only in the regular season. He was atrocious in both playoffs. Pretty much negative value to the team.

In '08 people were calling Gasol out because he didn't deliver what was expected from him, simple as that. Now he is a top 3 big man in the league and he DELIVERS. Once again, come back to me when Kobe (Lakers) beats the Celtics when his teammates fail to deliver against their opposition. Then I'll have to change my opinion...

Excellent series of posts CzBron! BTW in most cases Pau and co. save Kobe's ass...