Kevin Love - Miami Ground Machine

[Return of the King]

Need love to work on his footwork (defense). Please work on your game during the offseason... PLEASE.

 

[weepinwillow]

it's interesting how different the Cavs and Warriors are in how they got here.

I mean, the Warriors knocked it out of the park on 3 picks and had solid contact on a few others. Signed smart vets who complimented their deficiencies and played a style of hoops that their team more than anyone else was built for.

And then they added the 2nd best player in the NBA.

Chris Grant stumbled through "the process" for 3 and a half seasons. Bungled his free agent signings, reached on his draft picks (other than KI) and had a culture in the locker-room that was terrible. Then he's fired, Griff seemingly rights ship to a degree, you luck into yet another #1 pick.

And then the best player in the world decides to play in his home state.

What is so frustrating to admit as a life long Cavs fan is that I hate how Golden State had a foundation of a great culture in the locker room and among it's players/organization long before Durant decided, "screw arm wrestling Westbrook for FGA's every night, I'm going to go win a title with Steph" and teh Cavs.. well..

The Cavs are like a real hot chick with crazy f'ing baggage. The rich owner willing to spend, spend, spend.. but he also tramples his on GM's, is impulsive and has alienated your best player (and through that, has probably alienated many players around the NBA to some degree). You have the other worldly PG who's handles are next level and has a dynamic 1 on 1 game, but he can be somewhat lazy on defense and can get tunnel vision with his offense. A PF who checks all the boxes (Pts, Reb, great outlet passes, and a strong jumper with solid post game), but is the wrong guy for your biggest threat. And you have the best player in basketball who basically punches your ticket to the finals as long as he's on your team, but he never commits longer than 2 years, coasts in chill mode through the regular season (and his team follows suit, which is fine until you play the best team in possibly the history of the NBA in the finals, where you have no track record of grinding out games defensively nor playing with any kind of urgency).

And now we go into the offseason with the GOAT potentially gone after the upcoming year, an impossible opponent, our crazy owner canning the closest thing to a stable GM we've had since Wayne Embry and the probably blow up of what should have been a 2-3 Finals winning team in most normal NBA arcs.

 

[amurderofcrows]

This is the first time Kyrie and Love directly felt the loss of a finals. Both were injured in 2015.

If they come back truly hungry and pissed off to become complete players. We got a shot.

It should piss them off that LeBron can't rest two friggin minutes without it going to hell. Time is now..

This season, Lue should (shudder) have the team practice the phuck playing with LBJ off the court.
And then this group (when LBJ rests games) be expected to play balls out.

 

[godfather]

We give up Wiggins for Love. We can't get Butler for Love. Wolves get Butler without giving up Wiggins.

WTF, lol.

At least we'll never lose sleep over this trade when it comes to him alone. Wiggins has been very, very, underwhelming IMO. Love to this day is easily better.

And I was a Wiggins guy (after Embiid). What only kills me, is our reluctance to not at least get Dieng back, while also including that Miami pick (look what Minny got back in the Butler trade).

If Minny wanted fat ass Bennett, I could care less.

That still, to this day, remains mind boggling with the number one pick in the draft, Flip's guy (RIP), and all the fucking ammo to get Minny to bend to our will, we didn't get the upper hand when Love was ready to walk.

Boy, would Dieng at starting center look pretty nice now.

 

[Rich]

We give up Wiggins for Love. We can't get Butler for Love. Wolves get Butler without giving up Wiggins.

WTF, lol.

Wiggins was the only thing we gave up worth anything.

Anthony Bennett was truly, honestly, a throw in to make salaries work. Like I have no doubt that we wanted to include Bennett, and had we offered some other similarly salaried player, like Waiters, the Wolves would have accepted. Getting rid of Bennett's contract was a benefit for us, not just in hindsight, but the time. And then we gave up a late 1st, non-lottery pick.

So, would you rather have Andrew Wiggins, as you know him right now, or Lavine, Dunn, and 7? I'd rather Lavine, Dunn, and 7. I'm not sure Wiggins ends up better than Lavine alone.

Honestly, people need to go back and look at what we traded for Kevin Love. Yea, the number 1 pick is worth a lot because of what it potentially could be.

But they didn't get a HOFer, it would appear. I'm not even sure they got a guy who will make more than 2 all-star teams. And then Anthony Bennett, maybe the worst nba player ever, and Thad Young (the pick went to Philly, not Minnesota).

So.....is that really that much more than what Chicago just got? The pick is better, but the players, at least from a rebuilding standpoint, are not. And they weren't at the time, either.

Which goes back to this: NBA front offices are placing entirely too much value on draft picks and not enough on actualy NBA level talent. People look at that Kevin Love trade and say "look at how much we gave up." But ultimately, the position of the pick only matters depending on who you select. It's a crap shoot.

There's a very good chance in 3 years we will look back at the Bulls trade and conclude they get more value for Butler than the 'Wolves got for Kevin Love, even though most wouldn't agree at the moment.

EDIT: And we see this playing out in multiple places across the league. In Boston, where they hope and pray a single draft pick they make actually becomes as good as JImmy Butler is right now. We see it in Phoenix, where they supposedly had a deal on the table for Porzingis or Kevin Love, and chose the unknown draft pick instead.

We saw it with the Cousins trade, where no one wanted to give up any pick of value for a bonafide top 20 player. We just saw it with Butler, where the Bulls got two guys who, as of right now, aren't clear blue chippers and a mid lottery pick for a top 10 player.

Why couldn't these teams get more? Because GMs have lost their damn minds when it comes to draft picks and their value.

 

[Snarly]

Wiggins was the only thing we gave up worth anything.

Anthony Bennett was truly, honestly, a throw in to make salaries work. And then we gave up a late 1st, non-lottery pick.

So, would you rather have Andrew Wiggins, as you know him right now, or Lavine, Dunn, and 7? I'd rather Lavine, Dunn, and 7. I'm not sure Wiggins ends up better than Lavine alone.

It is not like the Cavs are now NBA champions or anything and ended the drought thanks to Loves defense in game 7 but yeah lets all get mad over shit that makes no sense. The media and everyone is saying how Love has no value and yeah he does not now after PHO kept the pick. Teams do not want Love and a treadmill. Love is still a great player and if the Cavs decide to give a fuck during the season and get other parts they will back for another Finals. Man people have become spoiled around here.

 

[godfather]

Wiggins was the only thing we gave up worth anything.

Anthony Bennett was truly, honestly, a throw in to make salaries work. Like I have no doubt that we wanted to include Bennett, and had we offered some other similarly salaried player, like Waiters, the Wolves would have accepted. Getting rid of Bennett's contract was a benefit for us, not just in hindsight, but the time. And then we gave up a late 1st, non-lottery pick.

So, would you rather have Andrew Wiggins, as you know him right now, or Lavine, Dunn, and 7? I'd rather Lavine, Dunn, and 7. I'm not sure Wiggins ends up better than Lavine alone.

Honestly, people need to go back and look at what we traded for Kevin Love. Yea, the number 1 pick is worth a lot because of what it potentially could be.

But they didn't get a HOFer, it would appear. I'm not even sure they got a guy who will make more than 2 all-star teams. And then Anthony Bennett, maybe the worst nba player ever, and Thad Young (the pick went to Philly, not Minnesota).

So.....is that really that much more than what Chicago just got? The pick is better, but the players, at least from a rebuilding standpoint, are not. And they weren't at the time, either.

Which goes back to this: NBA front offices are placing entirely too much value on draft picks and not enough on actualy NBA level talent. People look at that Kevin Love trade and say "look at how much we gave up." But ultimately, the position of the pick only matters depending on who you select. It's a crap shoot.

There's a very good chance in 3 years we will look back at the Bulls trade and conclude they get more value for Butler than the 'Wolves got for Kevin Love, even though most wouldn't agree at the moment.

They're basically clones overall. But one guy is at least healthy, and the other is coming off an ACL. Where his entire game relies on athleticism and explosion to be effective.

So, Wiggins in a vacuum just for that alone.

 

[Rich]

They're basically clones overall. But one guy is at least healthy, and the other is coming off an ACL. Where his entire game relies on athleticism and explosion to be effective.

So, Wiggins in a vacuum just for that alone.

I agree that the injury means Wiggins has more value right now...but honestly, if you asked me to pick one of the two, I'd probably still pick LaVine.

Either way, I know if you asked me if I'd trade Wiggins for Dunn, Lavine, and 7, and I'd do it all day and twice on Sunday.

I wonder what the trade conversations looked like. If the Bulls asked for Wiggins, if the 'Wolves tried to do a deal around Wiggins so they could maybe keep the pick or Dunn....

 

[Snarly]

I agree that the injury means Wiggins has more value right now...but honestly, if you asked me to pick one of the two, I'd probably still pick LaVine.

Either way, I know if you asked me if I'd trade Wiggins for Dunn, Lavine, and 7, and I'd do it all day and twice on Sunday.

I wonder what the trade conversations looked like. If the Bulls asked for Wiggins, if the 'Wolves tried to do a deal around Wiggins so they could maybe keep the pick or Dunn....

They are at equal Value and I am sure Minny pushed the Lavine trains because Wiggins can make a leap and Lavine will not as he becomes a poor mans Derrick Rose in his prime. The Bull know after MJ they never had a chance and this trade is them letting it sink in.

 

[Rich]

At least we'll never lose sleep over this trade when it comes to him alone. Wiggins has been very, very, underwhelming IMO. Love to this day is easily better.

And I was a Wiggins guy (after Embiid). What only kills me, is our reluctance to not at least get Dieng back, while also including that Miami pick (look what Minny got back in the Butler trade).

If Minny wanted fat ass Bennett, I could care less.

That still, to this day, remains mind boggling with the number one pick in the draft, Flip's guy (RIP), and all the fucking ammo to get Minny to bend to our will, we didn't get the upper hand when Love was ready to walk.

Boy, would Dieng at starting center look pretty nice now.

It's crazy about Wiggins too. He was fairly efficient 23 ppg scorer last year. That's a pretty big number.

But he's so bad at literally everything else. He's a terrible rebounder. Terrible court vision and playmaker. A worthless defensive player.

 

[SK808]

chill mode through the regular season (and his team follows suit, which is fine until you play the best team in possibly the history of the NBA in the finals, where you have no track record of grinding out games defensively nor playing with any kind of urgency

And now we go into the offseason with the GOAT potentially gone after the upcoming year, an impossible opponent, our crazy owner canning the closest thing to a stable GM we've had since Wayne Embry and the probably blow up of what should have been a 2-3 Finals winning team in most normal NBA arcs.

I think there's an interesting point here that deserves more discussion. The Cavs have a lot of disadvantages when compared to GS. But what about our advantages over the rest of the league? We can beat any other team in the league any night. Whose to say a focused Cavs team, during the regular season, couldn't win 70 games? I would be really interested to see what we could do in the finals with home court advantage. We play so much better at the Q while we consistently struggle at Oracle, especially early in the series. This team AS IS is capable of winning a shitload of regular season games, forming good habits and possibly getting home court. Yea it's going to be tough with GS as good as they are, to have more wins at the end of the RS - but the point I am trying to make is there are things the cavs could do to give themselves a better chance in the finals beyond blowing up the team. If you are historically good, compared to 99% of the other teams in the league, how do you use that to try and gain an advantage LEADING up to the finals?

 

[chuck0609]

I think there's an interesting point here that deserves more discussion. The Cavs have a lot of disadvantages when compared to GS. But what about our advantages over the rest of the league? We can beat any other team in the league any night. Whose to say a focused Cavs team, during the regular season, couldn't win 70 games? I would be really interested to see what we could do in the finals with home court advantage. We play so much better at the Q while we consistently struggle at Oracle, especially early in the series. This team AS IS is capable of winning a shitload of regular season games, forming good habits and possibly getting home court. Yea it's going to be tough with GS as good as they are, to have more wins at the end of the RS - but the point I am trying to make is there are things the cavs could do to give themselves a better chance in the finals beyond blowing up the team. If you are historically good, compared to 99% of the other teams in the league, how do you use that to try and gain an advantage LEADING up to the finals?

Not possible. You'd have to kill LBJ to win 70. Love can't play back to back, kyrie doesn't give a shit and they're wholly disfunctional without LBJ.

The goal of this offseason is to lessen his load and become a better team with him off the court.

So far we're looking at LBJ playing 40 mins a night again, and 47 a night in the playoffs. At some point he won't be able to be superhuman.

 

[Jscc]

I think there's an interesting point here that deserves more discussion. The Cavs have a lot of disadvantages when compared to GS. But what about our advantages over the rest of the league? We can beat any other team in the league any night. Whose to say a focused Cavs team, during the regular season, couldn't win 70 games? I would be really interested to see what we could do in the finals with home court advantage. We play so much better at the Q while we consistently struggle at Oracle, especially early in the series. This team AS IS is capable of winning a shitload of regular season games, forming good habits and possibly getting home court. Yea it's going to be tough with GS as good as they are, to have more wins at the end of the RS - but the point I am trying to make is there are things the cavs could do to give themselves a better chance in the finals beyond blowing up the team. If you are historically good, compared to 99% of the other teams in the league, how do you use that to try and gain an advantage LEADING up to the finals?

imo, if KD stays in OKC then we're looking at back-to-backs. And all the talk would be how great LeBron is, where he and Kyrie rank as duos, etc., He didn't though.

And also imo, that advantage begins and ends with Lue. I don't think he's a good enough coach to clean up/install habits and theoretically maximize what we currently have.

 

[amurderofcrows]

Not possible. You'd have to kill LBJ to win 70. Love can't play back to back, kyrie doesn't give a shit and they're wholly disfunctional without LBJ.

The goal of this offseason is to lessen his load and become a better team with him off the court.

So far we're looking at LBJ playing 40 mins a night again, and 47 a night in the playoffs. At some point he won't be able to be superhuman.

Hey, thats MY Drum you're beating!

 

[SK808]

Hey, thats MY Drum you're beating!

Yea I also totally agree with that. Gotta be able to rest LBJ more. Question is can we do that with smaller tweaks and maybe adding someone like Melo (for scoring punch without Lebron) without giving up Love. Or is a much larger move the only real option to beat GS. I really think improving the bench is a must above all else. It was just so bad when it counted.