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LeBron James

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With that view, I see no reason not to strip the team down and blow it up. Since increasing the team's chances via roster improvement still means it's pointless.
That would be conceding anything at this point and you don't do that.
Season is still a ways off and it's a long season.
I am of the few that believe the Cavs can beat the Warriors ,especially with some defensive additions and just sound solid defense.
They should not be done with tinkering with their roster.
 
Cavs still best threat at upending Warriors. Going to need a ton of focus and execution, health and some luck. But doesn't every title won by anyone?

I can't help but think there were other moves we could have made that would have put us in a better position to somehow pull this off. Calderon, Green, and Cedi just don't feel like they move the needle one iota, unless it's going backwards. There is a lot of off-season left and moves can still be made at the halfway point. But it's hard not to feel discouraged right now based on what we've seen. Feels absurd to say about a team thats a near sure thing to take the East and go to the Finals for the fourth year in a row, but that's how I feel.
 
I can't help but think there were other moves we could have made that would have put us in a better position to somehow pull this off. Calderon, Green, and Cedi just don't feel like they move the needle one iota, unless it's going backwards. There is a lot of off-season left and moves can still be made at the halfway point. But it's hard not to feel discouraged right now based on what we've seen. Feels absurd to say about a team thats a near sure thing to take the East and go to the Finals for the fourth year in a row, but that's how I feel.
Too much espn will rot your brain, cut the first part of your paragraph out and just read the second half...we got this
 
It was either sign Cedi this year or potential lose him for years if not forever.

I don't think this is true. He could have gone back for one more year and come back next year. or put a buyout in the contract. I have heard nothing that suggests it was this year or bust. he did want to come over this year, but never heard anything now or never
 
Guys, guys, guys... There's a few ways that the Cav's can adequately play this.

First, we all have to acknowledge that LeBron's perception isn't always the same as what's right. He is an emotional guy and not always rational. This isn't an insult. It's just that everyone must accept that a move has to be made. With that said, there are still several options:

OPTION 1) Trade For Melo - Whether everyone agrees with this or not, it's a move that will please the LeBron and Kyrie. Now, Houston is offering garbage. No one wants Ryan Anderson or his 3 year deal. The other deals that include 3 teams are also not much better for the Knicks. In every situation, they are forced to take back bad contracts (Leonard/Turner/Harkless,etc.). That's what's stalling everything. Cleveland has the opportunity to present a deal that doesn't include "bad" contracts. With a deal centered around Shump and Frye, the Cav's can get Melo. They'll have to add "cash considerations" and 2 first round picks. Yes, it's a steep price but it will get it done TODAY and make the stars happy. This will probably lead to Wade signing on for the minimum as well.

OPTION 2) Create future flexibility. This is a more difficult plan that will require several steps. The "Big 3" make approximately 73.7 million. The cap is 99million this year. Tristan, JR and Iman each have the big deals that take up a majority of the cap. First, Iman is nearly a lock to opt out next year. With the salaries that guards are getting, there's very little chance that he'll pass that up. So, that leaves us with JR and Tristan. We have to really consider packaging our assets with them to get more flexibility going forward. Whether it's first round picks, Osman or possibly even pairing Love with one of them for expiring contracts/younger player. For instance, some options would be:

Thompson
1st Round Pick

For

Greg Monroe (1 year deal)

OR

Thompson
JR Smith
1st Rnd Pick
1st Rnd Pick
Osman

For

Derrick Favors
Joe Johnson

This would immediately allow the Cav's to get 50 million off of next years cap and be a player in free agency with roughly 25-30 million to spend....

OPTION 3) The last option, if all else fails, is to plan for life after LeBron. Under that scenario, I would start exploring what a trade with the LAL would look like. It wouldn't be the end of the world to get Ingram, KCP and Kuzma for LeBron at the deadline. If possible, I would try to do this in conjunction with dealing Thompson and Jr Smith for anyone with shorter deals. This would allow the Cavs to move forward with 2 stars, young talent and a plan to retool. They would still be the best team in the East.
 
I don't think this is true. He could have gone back for one more year and come back next year. or put a buyout in the contract. I have heard nothing that suggests it was this year or bust. he did want to come over this year, but never heard anything now or never

But it would have been the same problem next year.

Wed still be a tax paying team, our MLE would have been the only way to add a free agent above the minimum, and we're right back here again.
 
But it would have been the same problem next year.

Wed still be a tax paying team, our MLE would have been the only way to add a free agent above the minimum, and we're right back here again.

Let me put this blunt for all of you, Until LeBron, Love, and Kyrie decide to leave or drop off a ledge. We the Cavs then will have to rebuild or re-tool. It is simple as this if we do not win it all this year.
 
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But it would have been the same problem next year.

Wed still be a tax paying team, our MLE would have been the only way to add a free agent above the minimum, and we're right back here again.

Also we won't be just competing with ourselves to sign Cedi. He would be at the end of his Turkish league contract and be on the open market in Europe. If someone offers him more than the mini MLE, how much of a discount would he take. The window open for him to come this year and we needed to take it. If we changed our mind about bring him in, his mind could certainly change with in a year. If he took another Euro league contract, I doubt that team going to make it easy for him to leave. That's why I said we had the potential of losing him for years or forever.
 
Saw this on r/NBA.

Doesn't say much that we already didn't know but interesting nonetheless!

Is having Lebron really worth the trouble?

People were interested in seeing how I came up with the value Lebron brings to the Cavs, Dan Gilbert, and Downtown Cleveland as a whole. I've decided to make this thread so those that were interested could see how I arrived at the valuation.

A few days ago an interesting thread arose accusing Lebron of handicapping the Cavs this offseason. Because of his contract demands for his friends, the Cavs could not make many offseason moves. Further, they're having to pay tens of millions in luxury tax just to make this man happy. This prompted u/jushin33 to ask:

Has anyone looked at how much value Cavs would lose if Lebron left vs the tax savings?

Why is Dan Gilbert so willing to pay out the nose in luxury taxes rather than let Lebron walk and pocket the savings? Surely he's not worth it at this point, right?

Let’s begin by looking at attendance before we get into the financial aspect. How many more faces travel to Quicken Loans Arena to see the King?

Attendance prior to return: 17,329 Return: 20,562 2017: 20,562

Given 41 home games, this is 132,553 more people coming in yearly compared to the most recent season without him.

With playoffs that is at LEAST another 164,496 people whose offseason has not come early provided there is a minimum 8 playoff home games. To get this number I accounted for the fact that QLA would have a patronage of 0 because the team has not made the playoffs without Lebron in the last 20 years, so each home game is an increase by 20,562.

Interesting to note, Quicken Loans Arena max capacity is, you’ve guessed it, 20,562 people. The arena has been sold out every game since Lebron’s return.

Now let's look at revenue:

Year before: $145M Return: $149M 2017: $233M

I’m going to say 2015 was an outlier year. Lebron announced his return in July, 3 months before the NBA season began. The organization may have needed time to adjust to the sudden good fortune. In 2016, after having Lebron for a full regular and offseason, the team took advantage of his prowess, posting a revenue of $191M.

A lot of people asked about playoff revenue. The Cavaliers make an average of $81 per fan at full capacity during the regular season. Assuming a sweep each round, we get 8 hosted home games per post season. This gives us $13,324,176 a year in revenue brought in SOLELY FROM HAVING LEBRON ON THE TEAM. He’s been a lock to make the finals every year and, for a team that suffered four straight years of zero playoff games, this is literally money they would not see without him.

The Cavaliers had an operating loss of 40m in the 2017 season. I should note that this is the only loss the team has seen since drafting Lebron. This is wholly attributed to the dramatic increase in player expenses this year. In 2016 the team spent 87M on players. In 2017, this number rose to a whopping $131M. Before that, the Cavaliers went from an average operating income of $10m a year without Lebron, to $22.5M a year between 2015-2016. This is interesting to note because, given these figures, the team’s actual operating hit from adding Lebron drops to around $16M.

Mr. Gilbert has suffered a net loss from re-signing Lebron of $16M…so far. Let’s see if he makes it back into the black.

The Cavalier’s player expense hit is a sight to behold. Luxury tax ain’t no joke. However, after this season, the Cavaliers have a lot of salaries coming off the books and will only have $80-90M in owed player expenses. Were Dan Gilbert to resign Lebron, find cheaper talent, and maintain a revenue stream of, let’s say $200M to be conservative, he would make out like a bandit. Lebron would demand a salary higher than Curry’s and Harden’s, yes, but the team also has multiple deals coming in that would offset this. Goodyear, I believe, just signed on a $10m/year logo placement and the local tv deal of ten years at $26m a year ended this past season and is expected to at least double when the new deal is signed. All of that is in the future, however. Let’s look at what Lebron has already brought him.

Edit: Some people are taking issue with his impact on the valuation of the team as a whole. Whether it be the Clippers sale or revenue sharing. It was just a quick thing I noticed while putting this together and thought it would be interesting to add. Has no effect on the amount of revenue Lebron generates yearly. Dude brings in bank. I'll still leave it below, though.

Cavs value year before return: 515M Year of: 915M 2017: $1.2B

Wow. Dan Gilbert’s networth is $5.1B. The team he purchased at $375M has ballooned to become an asset worth $1.2B. Lebron is literally responsible for $825M of his net worth from basketball operations alone.

Basketball operations alone? Donajello, are you saying that Lebron has generated even MORE wealth for Dan Gilbert? Short answer: yes. Long answer: …you should probably sit down for this.

With foot traffic in downtown Cleveland skyrocketing with everyone coming to watch Lebron play, it is only natural that local businesses would reap the rewards. Dan Gilbert is the largest solo investor into the downtown Cleveland economy. He has invested more than $1B into the area and is the owner of 12 local businesses. This includes clubs, bars, and restaurants – all things people look for after a high-octane game. Bar owners in the area, ranging from small to large, have seen an increase in revenue of 30-200% on game nights. Demand for local hotel rooms have risen 8.6% since Lebron’s return. Lebron’s presence “increased the number of restaurants within 1 mile of a stadium by about 12.8% and the number of eating and drinking establishments by about 13.7%” to meet demand per a Harvard study. Employment in the hospitality industry in increased 9.9% upon the King’s return.

How much is all this worth? A study funded by the city of Cleveland along with the Cavaliers that was conducted by The Plain Dealer estimated in 2010 that Lebron James was key to bringing $135 per additional person downtown to see a home game. This includes parking, dinners, occasional hotels, and other expenses. That’s about $600k a night and $18,265,500 a year. The study also estimated that the downtown area sees an increase in foot traffic of 105,000 during playoffs. That gives us $113,400,000 over 8 home games. Note: the original estimate in the study of $180 included ticket prices. I’ve removed the $45 average ticket price because we are solely looking at revenue outside of the stadium. Their number did NOT include concession spending.

TL;DR: Dan Gilbert suffered a $40m loss, $27m of that coming from luxury taxes last season. Lebron increased team revenue by $88M from the highest grossing year without him to today. Outside of the stadium Lebron is responsible for $18,265,500 in spending during the season in downtown Cleveland, and $114,400,000 during playoffs. Dan Gilbert owns the Cavaliers and is the largest investor into downtown Cleveland to the tune of over $1B and 12 businesses.

Lebron has brought in about $219,665,500 a year just by coming back home.

Why would Dan Gilbert and the organization hop, jump, and skip to please Lebron, even to the point of paying exorbitant luxury taxes to sign his friends? Well, the proof is in the numbers. No king has been this profitable since Midas.
 
I think LeBron is playing a game of 4d chess to screw over Gilbert.

Come back, force the Cavs to spend all their assets on his buddies (TT, JR, Miller, Andy, Champ). As soon as he won a title, and cements his GOAT status, he turns Kyrie against the team, so that LeBron can leave next year, cripple the value of Gilbert's franchise, and leave looking like a hero as opposed to the supervillian he was in 2010. And Gilbert looks like an idiot because he lost LeBron again, and the Cavs will be a doormat for a decade because they have no assets.

He's now loved everywhere, Cleveland loves him because of the title, and he sticks it to Gilbert.

I'd applaud it if it didn't fuck us over for a decade.

edit - No, I don't really believe this...just a conspiracy theory.
 
I know. It's a conspiracy theory. Perhaps I should put that in the post.
What Lebron is doing is a mystery probably even to himself. To some degree I take him at his word when it comes to him mostly just living in the moment. A man of his means has it made whichever direction he chooses, so why not savor the present? I have no doubt that Lebron is fully committed to winning a championship in the coming season, and then he'll let whatever comes next sort itself out when the time comes. And quite frankly that's a pretty intelligent approach.

As for Kyrie, your comments (and I think Narbor's) about the Occam's Razor observation seems to be the best perspective.

Among competing hypotheses, the one with the fewest assumptions should be selected.

Kyrie just being a weird dude with an even weirder father he adores whispering in his ear explains everything that has been happening better than any other explanation.
 
I know. It's a conspiracy theory. Perhaps I should put that in the post.

I honestly think LBJ is undecided about his future here. Hopefully we can make the kinds of moves that keep him here. Which will probably require the winning of a championship. It's going to be a long season. Hopefully our front office puts together a full, competitive roster before the season...rather than waiting for the trade deadline like the last three years.
 

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