Rich
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And we didn't even draft him.
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Let it all out. The Cavaliers Rant Thread
- Thread starter Funny Man Rocco
- Start date
And we didn't even draft him.
MirORich
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Trade them for what though?
-Draft over them? Sure
-Let them develop but don’t count on it? Sure
-Dont extend them in 2-3 years unless they’ve shown significant growth? Definitely
-Define their roles more, make one one or two of Sexton, Garland, Okoro into reserves? Sure.
But newsflash, it takes a lot of guys 3, 4, 5 years in the league before the light goes on. Before their mental, physical, and experiential timelines align.
So sure, if you can actually convert some of them into something of actual value, go for it. But dont just dump them for nothing because they aren’t ready at age 21.
Erbium
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The wing contributions when healthy are putrid. Now, you take away Windler & Prince...
I mean we can't score enough points with this roster to win NBA games.
I'm not going to go in on the Sexton-Garland-Okoro thing...I mean they are 22 and younger, and may develop through time. Certainly don't view any of them as untouchable, but seems obvious this raod trip these guys are being asked to do WAY too much to influence winning at their young ages.
That said, the overall lack of broad talent on the roster is directly tied to us not having a single 1st or 2nd rounder on the roster earlier than Collin Sexton himself. This is what going "all-in" 2015-2018 looks like....the only guys we have from Lebron's last year are Love, Nance & Cedi. That was 2.5 seasons ago.
The other disappointment is our inability to develop talent on the fringes in the last 3 years. Rebuilds can be accelerated by finding a 2nd rounder (Draymond), or undrafted FA's like Delly, FVV, Caruso, TJ McConnell, Ingles, Wes Matthews, Marquis Daniels...Hell Ira Newble would be nice on the wing right now. Whether winning or losing, it's very important that you you maximize those 13-15 roster spots, and your 2-way rights, especially in non-coastal cities...and in my opinion, be ruthless with them. If Bolden is hurt, and you don't see back up C potential? Time to find someone new...getting a Lu Dort, RoCo or Duncan Robinson that could eat 25 minutes a night would be so big for our future.....
I mean we can't score enough points with this roster to win NBA games.
I'm not going to go in on the Sexton-Garland-Okoro thing...I mean they are 22 and younger, and may develop through time. Certainly don't view any of them as untouchable, but seems obvious this raod trip these guys are being asked to do WAY too much to influence winning at their young ages.
That said, the overall lack of broad talent on the roster is directly tied to us not having a single 1st or 2nd rounder on the roster earlier than Collin Sexton himself. This is what going "all-in" 2015-2018 looks like....the only guys we have from Lebron's last year are Love, Nance & Cedi. That was 2.5 seasons ago.
The other disappointment is our inability to develop talent on the fringes in the last 3 years. Rebuilds can be accelerated by finding a 2nd rounder (Draymond), or undrafted FA's like Delly, FVV, Caruso, TJ McConnell, Ingles, Wes Matthews, Marquis Daniels...Hell Ira Newble would be nice on the wing right now. Whether winning or losing, it's very important that you you maximize those 13-15 roster spots, and your 2-way rights, especially in non-coastal cities...and in my opinion, be ruthless with them. If Bolden is hurt, and you don't see back up C potential? Time to find someone new...getting a Lu Dort, RoCo or Duncan Robinson that could eat 25 minutes a night would be so big for our future.....
Alec
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Cavs are down a ton of personnel so I won’t bang too hard for JBB and co on the rotations. That said, some things need to change as soon as health allows. Once the team is somewhat healthy...
1. Okoro gets a massive minutes cut. He almost seems to be regressing the more he plays. Bring him off the bench. He’s flirting with the yips at the moment. Experience is great and all, but it’s hard to
Imagine tonight’s game as a positive experience and something to build on. And tonight wasn’t far from the norm for Okoro.
2. Garland and Sexton can’t play together. Their respective roles have too much overlap. Garland needs to be THE man when he’s on the floor. If that means pulling one of them after they both get the “start”...fine. When they both play, Garland is ineffective off ball, the team has two sieves at the 1 and 2. It’s not tenable and it’s stifling their development.
that would be my first course of action. And probably clear up some logjams with a couple trades.
1. Okoro gets a massive minutes cut. He almost seems to be regressing the more he plays. Bring him off the bench. He’s flirting with the yips at the moment. Experience is great and all, but it’s hard to
Imagine tonight’s game as a positive experience and something to build on. And tonight wasn’t far from the norm for Okoro.
2. Garland and Sexton can’t play together. Their respective roles have too much overlap. Garland needs to be THE man when he’s on the floor. If that means pulling one of them after they both get the “start”...fine. When they both play, Garland is ineffective off ball, the team has two sieves at the 1 and 2. It’s not tenable and it’s stifling their development.
that would be my first course of action. And probably clear up some logjams with a couple trades.
Jake
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I don't think the coach is the main issue. It's the lack of talent and/or experience of the players we have. And the injuries we have also.
Look at all the other highly regarded coaches out there even in other sports, who when left without talent, how do they do? Look at Kerr, Pops, Spoelstra, Belichick, etc, when left with injuries and no talent they too suck.
Look at all the other highly regarded coaches out there even in other sports, who when left without talent, how do they do? Look at Kerr, Pops, Spoelstra, Belichick, etc, when left with injuries and no talent they too suck.
I'mWithDan
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Whenever I've spent some time watching Okoro and then check a Kings box score......
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Let it go. After the Cavs drafted Okoro six teams passed on Halliburton. Three wings were drafted (Hayes, Avdija, and Vassell) before the Kings took Halliburton at #12.
Can you imagine the response if the Cavs took a point guard for the third year in a row, especially one that wasn't expected to go in the top 10? It wasn't like LaMelo Ball unexpectedly dropped to #5 and was far and away the top player on their board.
Alec
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Caring about public response. Why?
Using other teams passing on the same player as an excuse. Do we do this to just feel better about ourselves?
conventional wisdom and “always doing it this way” has gotten the Cavs to sucksville for the majority of their history.
Using other teams passing on the same player as an excuse. Do we do this to just feel better about ourselves?
conventional wisdom and “always doing it this way” has gotten the Cavs to sucksville for the majority of their history.
WorldFreeB
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But if we were going to take a guard Haliburton was the guy to pick,,,now we are stuck with some kind
of 2/3 tweener that can't shoot...i remember there were people in here pushing for Haliburton.
He could have been drafted anywhere in the top 10. Just because other teams didn't take him
doesn't mean we didn't blow it big time. How many teams passed on Leonarod or Giannis?
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I remain a bigger fan of Okoro than Haliburton.
Haliburton is made possible by Fox being as dynamic as he is on both ends. Without Fox, Haliburton does not get that funky set shot off cleanly.
The real story in Sacramento (4 or 5 games below .500 btw) is Fox back to looking like the all-star point guard that he was looking like before they fired Dave Joerger and hired Luke Walton. Sacramento is just now getting Bagley healthy and showing flashes of being having potential out there and that helps as well. He has a little young Lamarcus Aldridge with his length and ability to cover on D.
Haliburton has greatly benefitting from their young pair hitting years 3-4 and looking like it with high paid vets (Barnes & Hield) locked in to their contracts and content with playing their roles around them
Haliburton is made possible by Fox being as dynamic as he is on both ends. Without Fox, Haliburton does not get that funky set shot off cleanly.
The real story in Sacramento (4 or 5 games below .500 btw) is Fox back to looking like the all-star point guard that he was looking like before they fired Dave Joerger and hired Luke Walton. Sacramento is just now getting Bagley healthy and showing flashes of being having potential out there and that helps as well. He has a little young Lamarcus Aldridge with his length and ability to cover on D.
Haliburton has greatly benefitting from their young pair hitting years 3-4 and looking like it with high paid vets (Barnes & Hield) locked in to their contracts and content with playing their roles around them
Spoken like a true Cavs homer, because there's no way anyone without bias could say that. Any impartial person would admit that Okoro's season to date has been a disaster. When he was drafted he was projected as an athletic wing. Instead we have ourselves an undersized player who is too small to guard a wing and has shown absolutely nothing besides being a capable 1 on 1 defender of smaller players.
I wanted and expected to draft Avdija and he would have been a much better fit. As a point forward he could help offset Sexton's inability to play the point and at 6'9" he provides the length and rebounding this squad lacks. He'd also have helped with the spacing since he's at least a reasonable threat with a 3. Okoro isn't as bad as he's looked, but he's a horrible fit here. You can't play him with 2 small guards or with a team that is already offensively challenged. Plus while there's nothing wrong with learning on the job, having Okoro sit out at the 3 point line is beyond ridiculous. We saw him miss the rim on one where he was 8' from any defender. While he may improve his shot, having him even attempt threes right now plays into the opponents wish list.