Let's talk defense!

[fan0283]

Be careful when you bring that thing about love up

People will not like you around here
Some stuff are just not spoken of

Left under the rug

Yeah his supporters can be a very defensive bunch. Does no one else find it weird when he doesn't even try to raise his arms to contest layups? Is he worried that he would be out of position for the rebound? How about first securing the outcome that there would even be any rebound in the first place?

 

[Ozone]

I'm sure Lue is expected to play who he is playing as that is the best offense and the basis for this team being at the top of the east despite the defensive slide.I'm sure Lue and the rest of the coaches expect those who are playing to do what they are capable of on the defensive end so long as it does not disrupt the offensive flow until the post season,and if they do not,there in predetermines the fact as being the regular season second half slow down; and just not doing what they are capable of for preservation and preparation.The other problem and the bigger issue is the inability to defend certain match-ups in the low post, which most teams with a dominant big expose easily, losing Bogut before we got him killed any pro side of that argument with Sanders not apparently ready to make much positive impact.
However, that should be the least of their concerns if JR doesn't find his stroke and Korver continues to have foot pain, without that offense they won't make the ecf without hero ball from the big 3.

 

[buzzdog]

Yeah his supporters can be a very defensive bunch. Does no one else find it weird when he doesn't even try to raise his arms to contest layups? Is he worried that he would be out of position for the rebound? How about first securing the outcome that there would even be any rebound in the first place?

So let's get this straight. You're saying Love regularly stands by in the paint while guys drive right past him uncontested for layups, right? What else does he do wrong in your eyes? Do you have video proof of him doing all the time? Is there a You-tube video compilation?

 

[FrontPageNews]

So let's get this straight. You're saying Love regularly stands by in the paint while guys drive right past him uncontested for layups, right? What else does he do wrong in your eyes? Do you have video proof of him doing all the time? Is there a You-tube video compilation?

The video evidence of this is every since game. Just pull up any random play inside.

 

[fan0283]

So let's get this straight. You're saying Love regularly stands by in the paint while guys drive right past him uncontested for layups, right? What else does he do wrong in your eyes? Do you have video proof of him doing all the time? Is there a You-tube video compilation?

So you never noticed he often has trouble going lateral then vertical when it comes to contesting layups? Must be wilful blindness on your part. Also seems like you're trying to imply I'm saying he does it literally every single time. You know you're defensive when you're trying to boil someone's arguments into semantics.

 

[fan0283]

The video evidence of this is every since game. Just pull up any random play inside.

Watch him say we're making this up

 

[buzzdog]

Watch him say we're making this up

The way you make these statements makes it sound like you believe that as a rule Love doesn't stay in front of people, doesn't contest shots, and doesn't give any effort.

I'm saying none of those things is true. I'm saying Love does do all of those things. I'm not saying that he is perfect in any of those things, he does let some things go when he decides that particular possession is a lost cause because he can't get to the right spot.

How can you deny that the majority of the time, Love tries to meet his guy early and keep him on the perimeter, and he does put up strong resistance, and he actually does get a solid number of one on one stops?

Every player in the NBA gets beat one on one. Even Lebron, JR, Shump, TT all get beat one on one. You act like Love is the only one this ever happens to, when he is usually defending longer and more athletic players to start with. I would say if anything Love over-achieves by bodying up when he can, by staying solid in his positioning, and by having active hands in traffic. He's never going to out jump or outreach longer players and he's never going to close out on lightning quick perimeter players who blow by their man when Love has to come from any distance.

To me the biggest problem is when he leaves his man to help. To me it looks like, as a team, our bigs are unclear as to when they should go help, how soon, and who is going to cover for them if they leave their man.

You constantly attack Love's defense and make blanket statements as though he is the main problem. The way I see it, Love is absolutely capable and willing to do his share but the team defense as a whole must improve for each player including Love to be able to do their part.

 

[Sir'Dom Pointer]

The way you make these statements makes it sound like you believe that as a rule Love doesn't stay in front of people, doesn't contest shots, and doesn't give any effort.

I'm saying none of those things is true. I'm saying Love does do all of those things. I'm not saying that he is perfect in any of those things, he does let some things go when he decides that particular possession is a lost cause because he can't get to the right spot.

How can you deny that the majority of the time, Love tries to meet his guy early and keep him on the perimeter, and he does put up strong resistance, and he actually does get a solid number of one on one stops?

Every player in the NBA gets beat one on one. Even Lebron, JR, Shump, TT all get beat one on one. You act like Love is the only one this ever happens to, when he is usually defending longer and more athletic players to start with. I would say if anything Love over-achieves by bodying up when he can, by staying solid in his positioning, and by having active hands in traffic. He's never going to out jump or outreach longer players and he's never going to close out on lightning quick perimeter players who blow by their man when Love has to come from any distance.

To me the biggest problem is when he leaves his man to help. To me it looks like, as a team, our bigs are unclear as to when they should go help, how soon, and who is going to cover for them if they leave their man.

You constantly attack Love's defense and make blanket statements as though he is the main problem. The way I see it, Love is absolutely capable and willing to do his share but the team defense as a whole must improve for each player including Love to be able to do their part.

You are just writing alot of stuff that are not related. No one is talking about his overall defense. Love doesn't contest much at all at the rim. It's either because he knows he is incapable of doing so or because he rather secure the rebound. It doesn't matter.
Love is not the longest but I have seen smaller guys contest better. He just takes himself out of the play more often than not and just lunges to the side and that allows the attacker an easy bucket.

No one is talking about his perimeter defense or PnR defense.. strictly talking about his willingness to contest at the rim.

I don't really care about all that, these are just facts. Love is not the Cavs main issue.

 

[Kbiz]

You are just writing alot of stuff that are not related. No one is talking about his overall defense. Love doesn't contest much at all at the rim. It's either because he knows he is incapable of doing so or because he rather secure the rebound. It doesn't matter.
Love is not the longest but I have seen smaller guys contest better. He just takes himself out of the play more often than not and just lunges to the side and that allows the attacker an easy bucket.

No one is talking about his perimeter defense or PnR defense.. strictly talking about his willingness to contest at the rim.

I don't really care about all that, these are just facts. Love is not the Cavs main issue.

Is anyone defending at the rim though? Our issues at the rim are due to the fact that no one has been able to keep their man in front of them. It's not a defending the perimeter vs. defending the PnR vs. defending at the rim problem. It's a defensively disjointed team problem.

People look confused on switches. People look confused on passes to perimeter players. People look confused on help defense. This leads to the whole "effort" mantra, AKA looking "slow" on defense, but i am more concerned that it's due to the fact that we haven't had a set rotation all year, which has hindered our teams ability to get familiar their rotational assignments / positioning on defense when they are thrown in with players they have less experience playing with.

Game-planning for a single opponent SHOULD (keyword) make these issues a lesser deal but Lue hasn't inspired any confidence in me as of late.

 

[buzzdog]

No one is talking about his perimeter defense or PnR defense.. strictly talking about his willingness to contest at the rim.


Love is not the Cavs main issue.

You must not read what gets posted. Love gets hammered all the time for his P&R defense, his perimeter defense, as well as his individual defense, his help defense, and his defense in the paint.

I agree with your assessment that Love is not the main issue.

But if people want a paint protector then we might as well trade Love, he'll never be that. He was solid when he had a true rim defender like Moz, but Love himself is no rim defender even though he does get the occasional block in the paint.

The only time Love steps aside rather than contesting is when he knows he's not going to be able to get into position and the only result will be a foul. He will give a foul at times to get a stop but that's not something you should do all the time. If he can get into proper position he contests as hard as anyone.

If anyone does want to get rid of Love be careful what you wish for, which is a loss of floor spacing, passing and rebounding.

 

[Sir'Dom Pointer]

You must not read what gets posted. Love gets hammered all the time for his P&R defense, his perimeter defense, as well as his individual defense, his help defense, and his defense in the paint.

I agree with your assessment that Love is not the main issue.

But if people want a paint protector then we might as well trade Love, he'll never be that. He was solid when he had a true rim defender like Moz, but Love himself is no rim defender even though he does get the occasional block in the paint.

The only time Love steps aside rather than contesting is when he knows he's not going to be able to get into position and the only result will be a foul. He will give a foul at times to get a stop but that's not something you should do all the time. If he can get into proper position he contests as hard as anyone.

If anyone does want to get rid of Love be careful what you wish for, which is a loss of floor spacing, passing and rebounding.

Love has other defensive problems, but they were strictly talking about his rim protection which I think is pretty abysmal for a PF.
The team is going to have it's hands full in the off-season and they are going to have to make some tough decisions and that involves Love aswell.

I don't even think about him nowadays because he is the least of our concerns tbh.

 

[kookoo]

I would have loved to make a run at Serge Ibaka. Dude would be the perfect compliment to LeBron and Kyrie. I'd also want a real center because you can win in this league without having to go small. We've been so reactionary and forgotten that good teams force other teams to play their way. Which to me comes down to bad coaching. Instead of going with the gameplan to out shoot Golden State, we should have planned to get guys who can defend. Bogut kind of screwed things up but I can't remember who said - waiting until February to sign players doesn't help anyone if you expect them to make a huge difference. Trading is different but in our cap situation, we would never be able to sign a guy that made a difference instantly. And in the case of Sanders, we won't give him a chance. Hell, we gave James Jones more burn than him.

 

[FrontPageNews]

I would have loved to make a run at Serge Ibaka. Dude would be the perfect compliment to LeBron and Kyrie. I'd also want a real center because you can win in this league without having to go small. We've been so reactionary and forgotten that good teams force other teams to play their way. Which to me comes down to bad coaching. Instead of going with the gameplan to out shoot Golden State, we should have planned to get guys who can defend. Bogut kind of screwed things up but I can't remember who said - waiting until February to sign players doesn't help anyone if you expect them to make a huge difference. Trading is different but in our cap situation, we would never be able to sign a guy that made a difference instantly. And in the case of Sanders, we won't give him a chance. Hell, we gave James Jones more burn than him.

I'd love to have serge. But he's way out of the question with the MLE. He'll get 20M Per. And i doubt Toronto would work with us in a sign and trade.

 

[Jstock12]

I'd love to have serge. But he's way out of the question with the MLE. He'll get 20M Per. And i doubt Toronto would work with us in a sign and trade.

I think this season's playoffs is pretty much make or break for them. If they're a 1st or even 2nd round exit, Masai Ujiri is likely blowing that team up, IMO. In that case, there's no reason why he would be against helping Cleveland out. That is, if Cleveland has anything of worth to offer in return (1st round picks most likely).

 

[JMoneyYourHoney]

I'd love to have serge. But he's way out of the question with the MLE. He'll get 20M Per. And i doubt Toronto would work with us in a sign and trade.

Toronto got Ibaka to beat us. Massai coveted him since last year, and it was a "now or never" move since they'd never be able to get anybody of his caliber after signing Lowry to his max extension this summer.

A lot of people laughed at Toronto for going so far above the salary cap with a treadmill team, but you have to wonder if it was the smart play given how abysmal the Cavs have ended up being.

Everybody is so focused on Washington and Boston but Toronto with a healthy Lowry (and remember, they added Tucker) is arguably the scariest team in the East.

Frankly, I don't have any hope for the Cavs against any of those teams at the moment.