Poll: Obamacare

[DougHeil]

I highly doubt the "tax" issue will end up being a big deal in this case, the majority of legal scholars that have reviewed the language of the bill have pretty clearly determined that the mandate levies a fine in the form of a penalty, not a tax. The law itself dictates that the fee is a penalty and not a tax, so it's really not a big issue.

The core issue that will ultimately decide the fate of Obamacare is the constitutionality of the individual mandate and whether Congress has the power under the Commerce Clause to regulate a person's choice to purchase health care coverage. That's the main issue both sides have been gearing up to battle over.

My take? Clearly unconstitutional, shitty bill, wish Obama had the courage to push a real bill through Congress when he had the numbers to do so.

I believe the history books will look back and decide that Obama's decision to not use his mandate and the total control of both the House and Senate in order to pass more meaningful and helpful bills just might be what defines his legacy as POTUS for 4 years. I actually believe by not going directly to the Universal Health Care for all card, history will show him to be weak and somewhat sinister. Businesses are already saying they won't carry health insurance if Obamacare remains the law. That's what Obama counted on all along so a single payer could eventually be bought into. He could have went directly to Universal/single payer without all the hanky-panky of this obamacare, but he didn't. He had his party controlling everything. He blew it.

 

[SOA]

Ihistory will show him to be weak and somewhat sinister. . . . He could have went directly to Universal/single payer without all the hanky-panky of this obamacare, but he didn't. He had his party controlling everything. He blew it.

making statements like this make me want to reach out and punch you in your pointed head Doug

characterizing Obama as weak and sinister is a reach for a even a partisan hack like you, but I will give you points in not using your favorite "L word " in this post

there is a real need for universal health care and more importantly reform in the entire medical/ insurance industry

Obama put forth a basic idea that was even Doug mentioned below . . .so I guess it sunk in

"if we could all purchase health insurance like we can purchase auto insurance, costs would also go down as there would be MUCH more competition for your dollars."

what is sinister and weak about that? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?

the reality is Obama lost his mother to a long battle with cancer

he mentioned when campaigning how medical expenses are one of the leading causes of bankruptcy

the ONE THING I will agree in your post is that he blew it.

as important as this is for not only the country but for his presidency , it could/should have been handled a lot better and what we got will probably define his presidency

its been a rallying cry for the right , but IMHO for all the wrong reasons

in my view makes them look like partisan pricks rather than someone who neither cares for the average american nor has a credible answer on their own

 

[bcort]

making statements like this make me want to reach out and punch you in your pointed head Doug

characterizing Obama as weak and sinister is a reach for a even a partisan hack like you

Are you trying to get this thread locked too with your personal attacks?

And no, saying Obama has been weak is not a reach.

"if we could all purchase health insurance like we can purchase auto insurance, costs would also go down as there would be MUCH more competition for your dollars."

what is sinister and weak about that? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?

And I have viable alternatives to walk or ride a bike to work if I don't want to pay for auto insurance. What are the alternatives for not buying health insurance?

the reality is Obama lost his mother to a long battle with cancer

And? That shouldn't have any influence on what he does for the country.

 

[cavman]

I was never really all that happy with the bill. I felt it didn't go far enough. It needed a public option, and I was sad when they gave up on it.

 

[cavman]

Are you trying to get this thread locked too with your personal attacks?

And no, saying Obama has been weak is not a reach.


And I have viable alternatives to walk or ride a bike to work if I don't want to pay for auto insurance. What are the alternatives for not buying health insurance?


And? That shouldn't have any influence on what he does for the country.

See not all of us have the option to go without health insurance. Some of us have not been allowed to even participate in the private insurance market. I understand that you want the option because of your health to not pay for insurance you may not use for a while, but how else do you control the cost for private insurance companies when in 2014 they will have to cover people like me.

 

[Noonan]

Really looking forward to all these people opposed to health care reform rationalizing their vote for Romney next November.

 

[gourimoko]

I was never really all that happy with the bill. I felt it didn't go far enough. It needed a public option, and I was sad when they gave up on it.

I completely agree. Obama felt that he needed to compromise to get anything passed. The idea in the Administration is that if Obamacare sets the precedent for universal coverage - unconstitutional or not, the idea has been put in place. Therefore, the only logical replacement is a more progressive form of health care program. It was designed as an incremental, yet purposely unsustainable model. The public option would inevitably outgrow the private sector and eventually eliminate the private health insurance industry resulting in Medicare-for-All or something like it. Without the public option, rising costs will eventually force Congress to enact price controls which would be the beginnings of a multi-payer system.

Either way the result would eventually be the same, a government controlled health care industry.

 

[InBoobieWeTrust]

I completely agree. Obama felt that he needed to compromise to get anything passed. The idea in the Administration is that if Obamacare sets the precedent for universal coverage - unconstitutional or not, the idea has been put in place. Therefore, the only logical replacement is a more progressive form of health care program. It was designed as an incremental, yet purposely unsustainable model. The public option would inevitably outgrow the private sector and eventually eliminate the private health insurance industry resulting in Medicare-for-All or something like it. Without the public option, rising costs will eventually force Congress to enact price controls which would be the beginnings of a multi-payer system.

Either way the result would eventually be the same, a government controlled health care industry.

We can only hope. It's a shame that they're attempting to step on the constitution to do this though. You have to believe that even Obama would privately say that the mandate is unconstitutional. I'm just scared that the court will make a big mistake and uphold the mandate. I'm afraid that it's possible that they uphold it, especially since it's almost certain that they have four votes and only need one to drastically alter the power Congress has over every single individual in the country. When you combine that with stuff like the Patriot Act and drug laws, it really seems like civil liberties are being overlooked which is an extremely dangerous path to partake in.


I'm hoping the supreme court strikes down the mandate, gets a little crazy, and just mauls the entire bill because of the severability issues, then hopefully we can find a government-controlled health care system that works, emulate it with whatever adjustments we may need due to population or care standard differences, and just do it. It's the RIGHT thing to do, it's the SMART thing to do.

 

[gourimoko]

We can only hope. It's a shame that they're attempting to step on the constitution to do this though. You have to believe that even Obama would privately say that the mandate is unconstitutional. I'm just scared that the court will make a big mistake and uphold the mandate. I'm afraid that it's possible that they uphold it, especially since it's almost certain that they have four votes and only need one to drastically alter the power Congress has over every single individual in the country. When you combine that with stuff like the Patriot Act and drug laws, it really seems like civil liberties are being overlooked which is an extremely dangerous path to partake in.


I'm hoping the supreme court strikes down the mandate, gets a little crazy, and just mauls the entire bill because of the severability issues, then hopefully we can find a government-controlled health care system that works, emulate it with whatever adjustments we may need due to population or care standard differences, and just do it. It's the RIGHT thing to do, it's the SMART thing to do.

I agree 100%.

 

[SOA]

Really looking forward to all these people opposed to health care reform rationalizing their vote for Romney next November.

the sad thing is Romney is probably the most electable of the Republican candidates , but will struggle to get support within his own party due to his health care initiatives and religous background

 

[bob2the2nd]

for those of you looking for a previous mandate to require health insurance here you go.

heads aslode i know

Congress Passes Socialized Medicine and Mandates Health Insurance -In 1798

 

[InBoobieWeTrust]

for those of you looking for a previous mandate to require health insurance here you go.

heads aslode i know

Congress Passes Socialized Medicine and Mandates Health Insurance -In 1798

After he explains what happens he does a really poor job arguing why it is the same situation as what the current individual mandate is facing. The situations ARE different. Plus, he kept mentioning the word "tax", he mentions how government created special places for them to be cared for, and the argument that it was only the sailor population is not invalid as the author suggests.

I applaud him for his research of the late 1700's, but the author is simply making a poor argument.

In-fact, I would compare that case much more closely to car insurance example and we can even narrow the example by looking at professional drivers(doesn't have to be a truck, but whatever works), if you want to be a driver(sailor), and partake in driving a car and whatever goes along with it(getting on a ship and doing sailor shit) you have to have that insurance. How to not have to buy car insurance? Don't drive. How to not have to get sailor insurance? Don't be a sailor! How to not get health insurance? Die. The author suggests simply not being employed can do that, but not being employed does not ALWAYS equate to being on Medicaid, Medicare, or financial hardship. I'd say he's factually incorrect and his bias clearly shows.

 

[DougHeil]

making statements like this make me want to reach out and punch you in your pointed head Doug

characterizing Obama as weak and sinister is a reach for a even a partisan hack like you, but I will give you points in not using your favorite "L word " in this post

there is a real need for universal health care and more importantly reform in the entire medical/ insurance industry

Obama put forth a basic idea that was even Doug mentioned below . . .so I guess it sunk in

"if we could all purchase health insurance like we can purchase auto insurance, costs would also go down as there would be MUCH more competition for your dollars."

what is sinister and weak about that? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?

the reality is Obama lost his mother to a long battle with cancer

he mentioned when campaigning how medical expenses are one of the leading causes of bankruptcy

the ONE THING I will agree in your post is that he blew it.

as important as this is for not only the country but for his presidency , it could/should have been handled a lot better and what we got will probably define his presidency

its been a rallying cry for the right , but IMHO for all the wrong reasons

in my view makes them look like partisan pricks rather than someone who neither cares for the average american nor has a credible answer on their own

Really? I thought my statement was spot on. I also believe some of your same party people agree with me about it. Obama and his party controlled BOTH the Senate and the House. He decided to ram through this fiasco of a bill instead of going straight to Universal health care.

I think you simply see a post of mine and don't care one bit what it said. You are going to attack me no matter what. How many times must a moderator in here warn you about this? I would think more than once is too many.

I suggest you relax. Check that, I suggest you may want to rethink participating in here for a few days or weeks.

 

[DougHeil]

We can only hope. It's a shame that they're attempting to step on the constitution to do this though. You have to believe that even Obama would privately say that the mandate is unconstitutional. I'm just scared that the court will make a big mistake and uphold the mandate. I'm afraid that it's possible that they uphold it, especially since it's almost certain that they have four votes and only need one to drastically alter the power Congress has over every single individual in the country. When you combine that with stuff like the Patriot Act and drug laws, it really seems like civil liberties are being overlooked which is an extremely dangerous path to partake in.


I'm hoping the supreme court strikes down the mandate, gets a little crazy, and just mauls the entire bill because of the severability issues, then hopefully we can find a government-controlled health care system that works, emulate it with whatever adjustments we may need due to population or care standard differences, and just do it. It's the RIGHT thing to do, it's the SMART thing to do.

There's becoming stronger opposition to Kagen being able to rule on Obamacare in Court. She seems to have too many things coming out about her happiness when it passed and her role in it. No way does it pass if she is forced to step down from ruling.

 

[bob2the2nd]

There's becoming stronger opposition to Kagen being able to rule on Obamacare in Court. She seems to have too many things coming out about her happiness when it passed and her role in it. No way does it pass if she is forced to step down from ruling.

i must have missed the kagen thing while i was reading about both scalia and thomas attending a dinner thrown by the law firm that is arguing the case against the health care act

here is your link. so you get to take out kagen, while the dems get to take out scalia and thomas. im pretty okay with that one