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Pop goes the economy

Do Not Sell My Personal Information
The goverment didn't save all banks. Major players in the economy were spared.

But if the begining of the Great Depression is a needed & necessary correction to the market. So be it.

Weird thing is the government is now suing those banks. Rumor has it the government is looking to break up the big 4 banks. Not sure I 100% agree at this point. It seems like the various sectors of the government are not on the same page what so ever and all have different agenda's. This law suite will really hamper the recovery. It has already started to make investors leary.
 
The goverment didn't save all banks. Major players in the economy were spared.

But if the begining of the Great Depression is a needed & necessary correction to the market. So be it.

honestly do you really feel like this is just a recession? Some of the numbers are already worse than depression era numbers.


Sock why do you try and put it off all on the GOP... it takes two to tango.. the blaime is equal across the board and the sooner that left wing voters and right wing voters wake the fuck up and see that instead of blaimeing the other party the better.


I am ready for a civil war, I am ready to live off the land. I can fish everyday and feed my family I live on the Trinity Bay, I have well water and I have 2.5 acres ready to farm. So where i may lose some comforts, my family will eat and we will keep on trucking. The sooner the GOP and Democrats are crushed and the people as a whole take back their goverment the better.
 
honestly do you really feel like this is just a recession? Some of the numbers are already worse than depression era numbers.

Yes, its really only a recession. Real GDP went down by almost 20% during the Great Depression, The worst recesion since then was 1973 which was a 4% decrease. We are not close to a Depression......yet.



I am ready for a civil war, I am ready to live off the land. I can fish everyday and feed my family I live on the Trinity Bay, I have well water and I have 2.5 acres ready to farm. So where i may lose some comforts, my family will eat and we will keep on trucking. The sooner the GOP and Democrats are crushed and the people as a whole take back their goverment the better.

If we have to live off the land, I might need to move to Texas and knock on your door with my family. Us Jews are not great at living off the land. Hope you like company. :chuckles:
 
If we have to live off the land, I might need to move to Texas and knock on your door with my family. Us Jews are not great at living off the land. Hope you like company. :chuckles:

I will teach you how to fish our bay system, how to hunt ducks and dove and how to garden. There are a few acres close by ... never hurts to be prepared. :chuckles:
 
I will teach you how to fish our bay system, how to hunt ducks and dove and how to garden. There are a few acres close by ... never hurts to be prepared. :chuckles:

Every new society needs a good accountant right? :chuckles:
 
Anyone who thinks the free market is to blame for the financial mess we are in should read about what the purpose of the Federal Reserve is. It is the lender of last resort, there to bailout the banks that fail when their inflationary booms go bust. If these banks knew they weren't going to be bailed out, would no doc mortgage loans even exist? Would people qualify for loans for ten times their annual earnings? If government backed Fannie and Freddie weren't buying these mortgages, would the banks make these loans if they knew they had to hold onto them? Of course not. Even the banks in the 1920s knew the Federal Reserve was there to bail them out if their stock market loans made them insolvent. The free market had zero to do with the situation, because we haven't had a free market in 100 years. Government guarantees, lenders of last resort, and government mandates were 100% to blame for the housing bubble and the mess that followed.
 
Yes, its really only a recession. Real GDP went down by almost 20% during the Great Depression, The worst recesion since then was 1973 which was a 4% decrease. We are not close to a Depression......yet.





If we have to live off the land, I might need to move to Texas and knock on your door with my family. Us Jews are not great at living off the land. Hope you like company. :chuckles:

Go to Israel. The Israelis are better than most of the goyim at living off the land (which is arid desert, by the way).

As for us American Jews...yeahhhhhh, you're right :(
 
Is anyone going to watch the BIG speech tonight? I won't be. I'll be watching between the Packers and the Indians. Besides, we can simply look to his Parma, Ohio speech about one year ago as it will probably be close to the speech tonight:

“And so people are frustrated, and they’re angry, and they’re anxious about the future. I understand that. I also understand that in a political campaign, the easiest thing for the other side to do is to ride this fear and anger all the way to election day.”

“Now, let me give you another example. We want to put more Americans back to work rebuilding America: our roads, our railways, our runways. When the housing sector collapsed and the recession hit, one in every four jobs lost were in the construction industry. That’s partly why our economic plan has invested in badly needed infrastructure projects over the last 19 months, not just roads and bridges, but high-speed railroads and expanded broadband access. Altogether, these projects have led to thousands of good private sector jobs, especially for those in the trades.”

“Now, there are still thousands of miles of railroads and railways and runways left to repair and improve. And engineers, economists, Governors, mayors of every political stripe believe that if we want to compete in this global economy, we need to rebuild this vital infrastructure. There is no reason Europe or China should have the fastest trains or the most modern airports. We want to put America to work building them right here in America.”

There ya go.

He'll also be blaming Bush yet again. He'll blame Republicans and call them "unpatriotic", etc. He'll be blaming everyone else BUT HIMSELF. Guaranteed.

His plan is a go nowhere plan. We've been there done that. He'll be proposing another few hundred billion on spending, but he won't be calling it "spending" at all. Just watch. He has NO CLUE as to how to help the economy and help to create the RIGHT environment for the creation of jobs. NO CLUE at all.

The speech will be a failure. Just like his Presidency is a failure.
 
LOL

It started at 7. I didn't know it started that early. I watched it.

Obama is at his best in campaign mode. He IS in campaign mode. That was a campaign speech. No doubt about it.

Nothing he said was new except for his mention of the need to reform medicare. Nothing else I know of was new. More of the same is his proposal. We heard it in the speech about the first stimulus.

"Pass it now. Do not wait. It's urgent, blah, blah, blah.... or ELSE."

It sounded exactly the same.

None of it will stir businesses to hire unfortunately. He also mentioned that "some" of us would prefer a pull back on regulations and no tax increases for those who create the jobs..... well duh? Of course we prefer that. Why? Because it WOULD WORK.
 
What? No discussion about "the One's" BIG JOBS speech from last night? Not a peep from anyone? Why? Could it be because he gave us absolutely nothing new? Could it be because the little stuff he did propose was already a been there done that? Oh yeah.

The Associated Press "Fact Check" as now weighed in with the facts as they see it. The AP has never been misidentified as a Republican leaning org either. LOL

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/storie...ME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2011-09-08-19-52-31

FACT CHECK: Obama's jobs plan paid for? Seems not

By CALVIN WOODWARD and TOM RAUM
Associated Press

WASHINGTON (AP) -- President Barack Obama's promise Thursday that everything in his jobs plan will be paid for rests on highly iffy propositions.

It will only be paid for if a committee he can't control does his bidding, if Congress puts that into law and if leaders in the future - the ones who will feel the fiscal pinch of his proposals - don't roll it back.

Underscoring the gravity of the nation's high employment rate, Obama chose a joint session of Congress, normally reserved for a State of the Union speech, to lay out his proposals. But if the moment was extraordinary, the plan he presented was conventional Washington rhetoric in one respect: It employs sleight-of-hand accounting.

A look at some of Obama's claims and how they compare with the facts:

OBAMA: "Everything in this bill will be paid for. Everything."

THE FACTS: Obama did not spell out exactly how he would pay for the measures contained in his nearly $450 billion American Jobs Act but said he would send his proposed specifics in a week to the new congressional supercommittee charged with finding budget savings. White House aides suggested that new deficit spending in the near term to try to promote job creation would be paid for in the future - the "out years," in legislative jargon - but they did not specify what would be cut or what revenues they would use.

Essentially, the jobs plan is an IOU from a president and lawmakers who may not even be in office down the road when the bills come due. Today's Congress cannot bind a later one for future spending. A future Congress could simply reverse it.

Currently, roughly all federal taxes and other revenues are consumed in spending on various federal benefit programs, including Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, veterans' benefits, food stamps, farm subsidies and other social-assistance programs and payments on the national debt. Pretty much everything else is done on credit with borrowed money.

So there is no guarantee that programs that clearly will increase annual deficits in the near term will be paid for in the long term.

---

OBAMA: "Everything in here is the kind of proposal that's been supported by both Democrats and Republicans, including many who sit here tonight."

THE FACTS: Obama's proposed cut in the Social Security payroll tax does seem likely to garner significant GOP support. But Obama proposes paying for the plan in part with tax increases that have already generated stiff Republican opposition.

For instance, Obama makes a pitch anew to end Bush-era tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans, which he has defined as couples earning over $250,000 a year or individuals over $200,000 a year. Republicans have adamantly blocked what they view as new taxes. As recently as last month, House Republicans refused to go along with any deal to raise the government's borrowing authority that included new revenues, or taxes.

---

OBAMA: "It will not add to the deficit."

THE FACTS: It's hard to see how the program would not raise the deficit over the next year or two because most of the envisioned spending cuts and tax increases are designed to come later rather than now, when they could jeopardize the fragile recovery. Deficits are calculated for individual years. The accumulation of years of deficit spending has produced a national debt headed toward $15 trillion. Perhaps Obama meant to say that, in the long run, his hoped-for programs would not further increase the national debt, not annual deficits.

---

OBAMA: "The American Jobs Act answers the urgent need to create jobs right away."

THE FACTS: Not all of the president's major proposals are likely to yield quick job growth if adopted. One is to set up a national infrastructure bank to raise private capital for roads, rail, bridges, airports and waterways. Even supporters of such a bank doubt it could have much impact on jobs in the next two years because it takes time to set up. The idea is likely to run into opposition from some Republicans who say such a bank would give the federal government too much power. They'd rather divide money among existing state infrastructure banks.

---

Associated Press writer Joan Lowy contributed to this report.
 
Hill Dems pick apart Obama jobs plan
By: Manu Raju
September 14, 2011 04:59 AM EDT

President Barack Obama’s new jobs plan is hitting some unexpected turbulence in the halls of Congress: lawmakers from his own party.

As he demands Congress quickly approve his ambitious proposal aimed at reviving the sagging economy, many Democrats on Capitol Hill appear far from sold that the president has the right antidote to spur major job growth and turn around their party’s political fortunes.

“Terrible,” Sen. Jim Webb (D-Va.) told POLITICO when asked about the president’s ideas for how to pay for the $450 billion price tag. “We shouldn’t increase taxes on ordinary income. … There are other ways to get there.”

“That offset is not going to fly, and he should know that,” said Democratic Sen. Mary Landrieu from the energy-producing Louisiana, referring to Obama’s elimination of oil and gas subsidies. “Maybe it’s just for his election, which I hope isn’t the case.”

“I think the best jobs bill that can be passed is a comprehensive long-term deficit-reduction plan,” said Sen. Tom Carper (D-Del.), discussing proposals to slash the debt by $4 trillion by overhauling entitlement programs and raising revenue through tax reforms. “That’s better than everything else the president is talking about — combined.”

And those are just the moderates in the party. Some liberals also have concerns.

“There is serious discomfort with potentially setting up Social Security as a fall guy because you’re taking this contribution out,” said Rep. Raul Grijalva of Arizona, referring to Obama’s proposal to further slash payroll taxes.

Democrats in large numbers will still back the president’s overall jobs package, and when the plan heads for House and Senate consideration, some of these same skeptics will very likely vote to advance the measure. But as details of the plan began to be vetted on Capitol Hill on Tuesday, it was clear that the White House needed to redouble its sales job — or tweak its plan — to force Democrats to fall in line at a pivotal point in Obama’s presidency.

White House officials aren’t ruling out making changes to the bill or compromising with Republicans on pieces of the agenda, and they plan to brief Senate Democrats on Thursday. But following his joint address to Congress last week, Obama, in a feisty speech Tuesday in Columbus, Ohio, again ratcheted up pressure to “pass this bill.”

“Tell them that if you want to create jobs right now — pass this bill,” Obama said. “If you want construction workers renovating schools like this one — pass this bill. If you want to put teachers back in the classroom — pass this bill. If you want tax cuts for middle-class families and small-business owners, then what do you do? Pass this bill.”

The audience shouted back, “Pass this bill!”

But in the halls of Congress, “this bill” was already expected to be modified, pared back significantly or overtaken by the powerful new deficit-slashing supercommittee.

“It’s hard to have an opinion on something you don’t think is going to be the final product,” said Nebraska Sen. Ben Nelson, a conservative Democrat who faces a tough reelection next year. “I’ve made it clear I’m looking for [tax] cuts, so I’m very hopeful there will be cuts.”


The wide-ranging reaction from Democrats speaks to the dilemma facing Obama as he heads into a tough reelection with the threat of economic recession looming: He needs to show the public that he’s pushing forward a bold and detailed plan to reverse the 9.1 percent unemployment rate, but his low approval ratings have made it harder to push a bill through a deeply divided Congress.

The push to inject cash into the economy has left Democrats stuck between pushing a jobs bill while trying not to add to the deficit.

“Every dollar that is spent on the jobs bill … is not going to be available to Congress to deal with the debt,” said Sen. Joe Lieberman of Connecticut, an independent who caucuses with Democrats. “And to me, the top priority of ours should be long-term major debt reduction.”

Lieberman insisted he was still open to backing the Obama plan, but he said the revenue raisers laid out in the plan raise “questions about whether it will be paid for over the long term.”

The new congressional supercommittee, created by last month’s law to raise the debt ceiling, could very well play a large role for the Obama jobs plan, which calls on the panel to find additional cost savings to help pay for it. In an effort to push the committee to find additional cuts in the range of $4 trillion over the next decade, a bipartisan group of senators met Tuesday morning in an effort to push the panel in that direction.

And next week, the White House plans to unveil what Obama says is a long-term deficit-reduction plan — on top of the measures that administration officials say will fully offset the costs of the new jobs proposal over 10 years.

In the jobs plan, Obama proposes to expand payroll tax cuts so employees’ rates would be reduced to 3.1 percent in 2012, down from the original rate of 6.2 percent that helps fund Social Security. A number of tax credits would be extended to businesses that hire workers and purchase new equipment. Billions would be spent on school construction, the hiring of teachers, the enlistment of more first responders, the rebuilding of infrastructure and for construction companies renovating old homes. Unemployment benefits would be extended through 2013.

To pay for nearly $400 billion, the White House would limit to 28 percent itemized deductions for families earning more than $250,000. Some $18 billion would be raised by increasing taxes on income earned by investment funds, another $40 billion would be raised by repealing certain subsidies for oil and gas drilling, and $3 billion would be raised by overhauling how taxes are treated for corporate jets.

Limiting deductions to upper-income families was opposed by all but three senators in the Democratic-controlled Senate in 2009. But some of those who voted against the idea in 2009 say they’d be open to backing it as part of a comprehensive package.

“The president has laid out a package, laid out a way of paying for it, I have no trouble supporting it,” said Democratic Sen. Kent Conrad of North Dakota.

Similarly, while some Democrats worried about the impact further cuts to the payroll tax would have on the Social Security program, and whether it would spur job growth, some like Sen. Ben Cardin (D-Md.) said they could swallow it as part of a more sweeping proposal.

But the tax increases clearly have generated concern among a number of Democrats who are calling for broader changes rather than tax hikes on specific industries.

“If we’re going to change something, we got to be sure that we do it in the total [tax reform] package, that they know what the rules of the road are,” said Sen. Kay Hagan (D-N.C.).

Democratic Sen. Mark Begich, from the oil-rich state of Alaska, said it was “frustrating” to see the president single out the oil industry after calling on the congressional supercommittee in last week’s address to Congress to find savings.

“When you start singling out certain industries, there’s an unfairness to it,” he said in an interview. “On the pay-fors, I have a problem.”
 
Dick Durbin now is saying the Senate may not even get to his so called jobs plan until next month.

Obama shouted about 29 times during his speech "pass this bill now." He seemed to be saying it's damn urgent to do so because the country needs jobs created. If this bill was really going to create all these jobs, I'd think the Democrats in the Senate who control the schedule would want to take up this great jobs plan NOW and not wait.

Why are they stalling? Oh yeah, the Senate doesn't have the votes because quite a few Democrat Senators have come out saying they cannot vote for the Obama jobs bill.

We all know, even Democrats, this bill has no prayer of creating jobs anyway. It's simply a reelection ploy by Obama to try to say the Republican controlled House is blocking his bill.

Daily Obama is proving he's in over his head. Even the MSM is seeing things the way they really are and questioning this guy's leadership. Finally.

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/george-w...d&utm_campaign=Feed:+mediaite/ClHj+(Mediaite)


We aren't talking about Conservatives on that panel either.
 
Dick Durbin now is saying the Senate may not even get to his so called jobs plan until next month.

Obama shouted about 29 times during his speech "pass this bill now." He seemed to be saying it's damn urgent to do so because the country needs jobs created. If this bill was really going to create all these jobs, I'd think the Democrats in the Senate who control the schedule would want to take up this great jobs plan NOW and not wait.

Why are they stalling? Oh yeah, the Senate doesn't have the votes because quite a few Democrat Senators have come out saying they cannot vote for the Obama jobs bill.

We all know, even Democrats, this bill has no prayer of creating jobs anyway. It's simply a reelection ploy by Obama to try to say the Republican controlled House is blocking his bill.

Daily Obama is proving he's in over his head. Even the MSM is seeing things the way they really are and questioning this guy's leadership. Finally.

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/george-w...d&utm_campaign=Feed:+mediaite/ClHj+(Mediaite)


We aren't talking about Conservatives on that panel either.

Obama should have just proposed a $10 trillion jobs bill that would have included the government taking over the American-based Fortune 500 companies, free healthcare for everyone in the US and Mexico, and a mandatory daily 1-hour Wonton soup enema from our new Chinese overlords. Just as likely to pass as the one he actually proposed, and this one reflects his values much more accurately.
 
Obama should have just proposed a $10 trillion jobs bill that would have included the government taking over the American-based Fortune 500 companies, free healthcare for everyone in the US and Mexico, and a mandatory daily 1-hour Wonton soup enema from our new Chinese overlords. Just as likely to pass as the one he actually proposed, and this one reflects his values much more accurately.

Oh but, but, but, he's not a far left liberal. He's not even a liberal, right?

Anyone who can think for one second the best way to help this poor economy create jobs is to stick more taxes and regulation onto those who actually DO IN FACT create jobs IS a Liberal.
 
Oh but, but, but, he's not a far left liberal. He's not even a liberal, right?

Anyone who can think for one second the best way to help this poor economy create jobs is to stick more taxes and regulation onto those who actually DO IN FACT create jobs IS a Liberal.

Nah, I don't like that terminology. Leftists have co-opted the term "Liberal" to make their ideology sound more palatable. Classical liberals are all about freedom of speech, action, conscience, economy and belief. Today's "liberals" try to shout down speech with which they don't agree, believe in less freedom of choice, action or economy than their supposed forebears, favor a more totalitarian, top-down, form of government, and love to coddle or team up with the enemies of freedom (like Islamists).

Real liberals were guys like the Founding Fathers; today's "liberals" are just socialists or communists in sheep's clothing.
 

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