Racial Tension in the U.S.

[Wrathe]

I fully believe that, if gun shots were heard and not seen (i.e. not a situation where you have a CCW and are immediately within a situation, that if some goes to seek the issue, any fatalities they cause are from them wanting to join in.

I know what you're looking to say, but I still think even then, they can be in the right.

I mean, we define heroes as those running towards the gunfire. If a gunshot goes off in my neighborhood, and I run out unarmed to ensure shit is OK, and help someone who may need help, would you call me someone looking for trouble, I mean, we normally celebrate that. However, if I have a firearm in this scenario you view me as a piler-on vs someone prepared for what they were running in to.

Just something to ponder, a negative stereotype about gun-owners, I would say. It speaks from the fear of everyone taking the law into their own hands w/ CCW's, and that it'd just open up vigilantism and such.

 

[Wrathe]

If that makes sense, idk. CCW has me all kinds of fucked personally. Like the 20 something at Village Inn (think Bob Evans) on pie day who came in with it visibly strapped to his hip as if the old people wanting pie were going to put his life at risk.

There's a huge difference in my brain of having it, being responsible and actually making sure it's concealed, because putting it in the open made me very uncomfortable (like the kind of uncomfortable that also having a gun wouldn't fix). Like he's seeking to take a hero shot?

I wonder if what you may have seen was an open carry. There are states you may carry as long as it is NOT concealed, and you require no license for that. Ohio is an open carry state (which made the resistance to CCW all the more laughable). It's possible he WAS a CCW carrier but for some reason decided to open-carry anyways, but that's kind of odd.

If he doesn't have a CCW though, he can't conceal it w/o breaking the law.

 

[DJTJ]

I wonder if what you may have seen was an open carry. There are states you may carry as long as it is NOT concealed, and you require no license for that. Ohio is an open carry state (which made the resistance to CCW all the more laughable). It's possible he WAS a CCW carrier but for some reason decided to open-carry anyways, but that's kind of odd.

If he doesn't have a CCW though, he can't conceal it w/o breaking the law.

Arizona is an open carry state. But wearing it with a tucked in tank and gym shorts looked tacky.

But, idk man, just seemed like the type of guy who was itching to be caught in the situation to use it, like I said.

And, that type of person? Like I previously stated, is the person who shouldn't be running towards the sound of gunfire like it's their turn.

 

[The Oi]

Defending the officers today? Then this post?

I fully believe that, if gun shots were heard and not seen (i.e. not a situation where you have a CCW and are immediately within a situation, that if some goes to seek the issue, any fatalities they cause are from them wanting to join in.

No one, CCW or not, wants to voluntarily enter an outside situation to participate in a shootout without the intent of purposefully shooting someone.

If that makes sense, idk. CCW has me all kinds of fucked personally. Like the 20 something at Village Inn (think Bob Evans) on pie day who came in with it visibly strapped to his hip as if the old people wanting pie were going to put his life at risk.

There's a huge difference in my brain of having it, being responsible and actually making sure it's concealed, because putting it in the open made me very uncomfortable (like the kind of uncomfortable that also having a gun wouldn't fix). Like he's seeking to take a hero shot?

Your conversion has begun.

 

[Wrathe]

Arizona is an open carry state. But wearing it with a tucked in tank and gym shorts looked tacky.

But, idk man, just seemed like the type of guy who was itching to be caught in the situation to use it, like I said.

And, that type of person? Like I previously stated, is the person who shouldn't be running towards the sound of gunfire like it's their turn.

I'm just concerned you speak like it occurs a lot, does it there?

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

I know what you're looking to say, but I still think even then, they can be in the right.

I mean, we define heroes as those running towards the gunfire. If a gunshot goes off in my neighborhood, and I run out unarmed to ensure shit is OK, and help someone who may need help, would you call me someone looking for trouble, I mean, we normally celebrate that. However, if I have a firearm in this scenario you view me as a piler-on vs someone prepared for what they were running in to.

Just something to ponder, a negative stereotype about gun-owners, I would say. It speaks from the fear of everyone taking the law into their own hands w/ CCW's, and that it'd just open up vigilantism and such.

I'm a pro-gun guy with a CCW, but for a civilian to run towards the sound of gunfire with gun in hand is not thinking clearly. Run towards the gunfire if you want, but drawing that gun before you are at the scene and can see what is happening raises the very real possibility that you're going to get shot. You have to be very aware of the possibility of cops or other CCW holders not knowing who you are, or which side you are on.

 

[CleveRocks]

I know at least 100 gun owners. They are all responsible with thier weapons, and take its consequences more seriously than people i know without guns. This is in part because they all have taken some kind of training either in the military, or as part of some kind of program..

You have two types of gun abusers: those leveraging guns to commit some other crime, usually about drugs, or some other criminal business, and then you have crazy. The latter are people who have access to guns, legal and otherwise, who go off the rails emotionally and use the weapon to express thier frustration on other people.

Terrorism is a form of crazy. A person who commits terrorism has lost his or her empathy for others, either because they are natural psycopaths or because they are given "permission" to kill by religion or racism or mysogeny .. while i doubt we can eliminate the truly crazy from committing random violent acts, I do think people who operate as public entities, can repitch their message to be more empathetic and respectful of others, and that could bring down the level of tension between groups. I am willing to call out any element that uses violent hate speech, and that includes trump and homophobic christians and racists like david duke or any of the KKK, but it also includes the extreme other side of the political spectrum, including BLM, militant LGBTQ, and extreme Bernie supporters.. comments like Johnny Depps, or Katherine Griffin are just as irresponsible as the iranian Imam calling the US satan.. calls yo violence of any kind is wrong and should be called out by all human beings.

 

[Tornicade]

Millennials are scared of their own shadow

You're arguing up the wrong tree... I tend to agree with you on a systemic level.

But sometimes, as with this off duty situation, it's not a systemic problem or something you can attribute to it. You're doing a disservice to yourself and your arguement by trying to pigeonhole black person shot by cop. Not all situations are the same.

You seem to believe that its okay for a cop to just shoot people just for being at a crime scene.

I am far more fearful of Cops shooting first and asking questions later than a guy walking into a pie shop with a holstered weapon.

This man who was shot. He was shot because he stood up and walked toward some Cops after they had asked him too.

Why because he was black and the radio said the suspect was black.... so therefore all black people are threats and shooting is justified?

This isn't an instance of someone being in the wrong place at the wrong time. it also doesn't matter what race the officer shooting is.

This guy was racially profiled and shot.

 

[Tornicade]

I'm a pro-gun guy with a CCW, but for a civilian to run towards the sound of gunfire with gun in hand is not thinking clearly. Run towards the gunfire if you want, but drawing that gun before you are at the scene and can see what is happening raises the very real possibility that you're going to get shot. You have to be very aware of the possibility of cops or other CCW holders not knowing who you are, or which side you are on.

None of this happened in the St Louis case.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

None of this happened in the St Louis case.

That's nice. My comment wasn't directed at you, nor at the St. Louis case in particular.

 

[Tornicade]

That's nice. My comment wasn't directed at you, nor at the St. Louis case in particular.

but the context of the conversation stemmed from the shooting.
The off duty cop was trained. he was well familiar with police procedure and he joined the scene in a manner that allowed the police on the scene to order him down.

the police then asked him to get back up and come talk to them... at this point a third officer observing decided to shoot in fear of his safety.


If the Off duty cop had been an "civilian" and conducted themselves in the same fashion. the shooting Is still irresponsible and there should be consequences.

Also the mindset of your comments indicate if it had been a "civilian" you would of dismissed the shooting as justified with your assumptions of irresponsible actions by the gun owner

 

[Wrathe]

I'm a pro-gun guy with a CCW, but for a civilian to run towards the sound of gunfire with gun in hand is not thinking clearly. Run towards the gunfire if you want, but drawing that gun before you are at the scene and can see what is happening raises the very real possibility that you're going to get shot. You have to be very aware of the possibility of cops or other CCW holders not knowing who you are, or which side you are on.

Absolutely man, would never suggest otherwise, that's crazy! That's what I'm asking, where is everyone seeing the crazy CCW guys running at bad guys w/ their firearm drawn?

 

[Wrathe]

but the context of the conversation stemmed from the shooting.
The off duty cop was trained. he was well familiar with police procedure and he joined the scene in a manner that allowed the police on the scene to order him down.

the police then asked him to get back up and come talk to them... at this point a third officer observing decided to shoot in fear of his safety.


If the Off duty cop had been an "civilian" and conducted themselves in the same fashion. the shooting Is still irresponsible and there should be consequences.

Also the mindset of your comments indicate if it had been a "civilian" you would of dismissed the shooting as justified with your assumptions of irresponsible actions by the gun owner

Torn. Q, DJTJ, and I were having a tangent conversation, an aside. There's a lot of those in these threads.

 

[Tornicade]

Torn, Q, DJTJ, and I were having a tangent conversation, an aside. There's a lot of those in these threads.

Oh right that DJ is scared of people carrying guns into pie shops and if he was a cop he could shoot that guy cause he was in fear for his safety.

or that if Yosemite Sam came to your aid he would most likely get shot?

I disagree with Q tips assertion that most gun carriers are Yosemite Sam.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

I disagree with Q tips assertion that most gun carriers are Yosemite Sam.

I disagree with your assertion that I ever made that assertion in the first place.

So I'd suggest replacing your Yosemite Sam with this: