Racial Tension in the U.S.

[Tornicade]

the police officer observed a black get up and walk towards his coworkers and instantly "feared for his safety" and shot the black man with no warning and no indication in his report why he "feared for his safety.

and then someone fromt he police department claimed the off duty cop was caught in the "crossfire" 5-10 minutes after shots had been exchanged.

 

[Tornicade]

no I am saying that if that if the guy was white and had the suspect was white. this shooting doesn't happen

That people can carry guns and not get shot for the sole purpose of shooting a gun..


a suspect being black doesn't give a cop the right to shoot every black man he comes across


and these attitudes are why we keep having this shootings continue to happen.


if this officer had been a concerned citizen the shooting still appears very irresponsible.

 

[Wrathe]

Why on earth would he shoot a white guy if the suspect is black Tornicade.

Equal opportunity. That's what this is really about, bringing awareness to the need to kill more White people.

 

[David.]

Equal opportunity. That's what this is really about, bringing awareness to the need to kill more White people.

Oh when we get into the disparity in crime.. It's just.. Do you suggest arresting more white people or less black people?

Or when jehmu Greene posits "the life expectancy gap between males and females is shrinking and we're not very happy about that."

 

[Wrathe]

the police officer observed a black get up and walk towards his coworkers and instantly "feared for his safety" and shot the black man with no warning and no indication in his report why he "feared for his safety.

and then someone fromt he police department claimed the off duty cop was caught in the "crossfire" 5-10 minutes after shots had been exchanged.

The fear for their safety comments appear to be directed towards why they shot at the fleeting suspects to begin w/. The off-duty officer lived nearby and joined in afterwards, at which point this occurred. The officer who arrived on the scene had seen him on the ground, stand and begin advancing on the officers.

Here's another article w/ a more tame outlook on what happened: http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...cle_761b9cc4-75d1-5023-a38f-c4096f99d114.html

It's not as, shall we say, assuming; as the original article, and it provides some extra details.

**EDIT**

With all that said, yes, there's danger to being a Good Samaritan, especially w/ a firearm. Regardless of your color.

 

[Tornicade]

The fear for their safety comments appear to be directed towards why they shot at the fleeting suspects to begin w/. The off-duty officer lived nearby and joined in afterwards, at which point this occurred. The officer who arrived on the scene had seen him on the ground, stand and begin advancing on the officers.

Here's another article w/ a more tame outlook on what happened: http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...cle_761b9cc4-75d1-5023-a38f-c4096f99d114.html

It's not as, shall we say, assuming; as the original article, and it provides some extra details.

**EDIT**

With all that said, yes, there's danger to being a Good Samaritan, especially w/ a firearm. Regardless of your color.

the guy was told to get up and join them.

At Barnes-Jewish Hospital early Thursday, Interim Police Chief Lawrence O’Toole told reporters the off-duty officer had come out of his home to help after the stolen car crashed nearby, and was hit in the crossfire between officers and suspects who had been in the car.

But police now say the off-duty officer was shot by a fellow cop who did not recognize him as an officer, in a separate encounter away from the initial crash.


2 different stories.
According to a department summary of the incident released later Thursday, two officers who encountered the armed off-duty officer ordered him to the ground. He complied. When they recognized the off-duty officer, they told him he could stand up and walk toward them.

Another officer just arriving at the scene saw the off-duty officer get up and, not knowing he was an officer, fired his weapon once at the man. He hit the off-duty officer in the arm, the department said.

okay this is no different


The pursuit began downtown near the Dome at America's Center about 10 p.m. when license recognition equipment alerted police to a vehicle that had been stolen June 15 in Maryland Heights. Officers pursued the vehicle, a white sedan, and used spike strips at one point. Three people inside the stolen car then opened fire at the pursuing officers, striking police vehicles. The officers backed off but continued to follow the car.

The department says the car crashed near the intersection of Park Lane and Astra Avenue, northwest of West Florissant Avenue and Riverview Boulevard. Three people inside fled the vehicle.

Two officers, "fearing for their safety," fired at the suspects, striking one in the ankle, according to a department summary of the shooting.

at this point the off duty officer is heading towards the scene because he heard the crash.

One escaped. one was apprehended at the scene and the third was apprehended near the scene.


The off-duty officer heard the commotion and came out of his nearby home with his department-issued gun, police said. That's when he encountered fellow officers and was shot by one of them.

the reporters summary sounds nothing like the event he had described at the beginning of the story

According to a department summary of the incident released later Thursday, two officers who encountered the armed off-duty officer ordered him to the ground. He complied. When they recognized the off-duty officer, they told him he could stand up and walk toward them.

Another officer just arriving at the scene saw the off-duty officer get up and, not knowing he was an officer, fired his weapon once at the man. He hit the off-duty officer in the arm, the department said.


I don't think the shooting officer even indicated that he saw a gun but fired on the basis that a man stood up and walked towards officers who most likely were facing the victim.

 

[DJTJ]

The fear for their safety comments appear to be directed towards why they shot at the fleeting suspects to begin w/. The off-duty officer lived nearby and joined in afterwards, at which point this occurred. The officer who arrived on the scene had seen him on the ground, stand and begin advancing on the officers.

Here's another article w/ a more tame outlook on what happened: http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...cle_761b9cc4-75d1-5023-a38f-c4096f99d114.html

It's not as, shall we say, assuming; as the original article, and it provides some extra details.

**EDIT**

With all that said, yes, there's danger to being a Good Samaritan, especially w/ a firearm. Regardless of your color.

Are you really a Good Samaritan if you're an untrained citizen who wants to shoot guns so you enter situations you shouldn't?

 

[The Oi]

All blacks* who do marijuana should be shot in the ass with a pellet gun.


*whites should be too. You guys were just talking about the blacks right now.

 

[Wrathe]

Are you really a Good Samaritan if you're an untrained citizen who wants to shoot guns so you enter situations you shouldn't?

Typically, you find yourself in those situations, you don't go sprinting towards them, no. I wouldn't encourage that.

However, I do believe, say for example, the guy who shut down that mall shooting a few years back was a Good Samaritan by drawing on the gunman. In that moment, he could have easily been fired upon because the Police may have doubted who was who (which was actually your point in why this was accidental above).

As a CCW holder, I like to think anytime I'd use my firearm in a public setting, that it'd be with the spirit of being a Good Samaritan (not THE Good Samaritan, don't go completely theological here ).

I've been proud of my fellow Ohioans though. CCW hasn't resulted in the insanity many feared it may, nor has it created a Wild West environment.

 

[David.]

I don't know what I'd do if I had a gun. Yeesh

 

[Tornicade]

Are you really a Good Samaritan if you're an untrained citizen who wants to shoot guns so you enter situations you shouldn't?

so if someone carries a gun.... its because they want to shoot it? or they aren't trained to use it?

One of the problems with society is that people are not more proactive

Not everyone can expect a cop to show up within minutes of something occurring.

Police work for the people. The people aren't cows meant to be sorted out branded then sent to the pasture.


people are innocent until proven guilty.
Law enforcement should be accountable for their actions.

Linus would suffocate with all these security blankets millennials wrap themselves in.

the fact is that 13 percent of blacks fatality shot by cops are unarmed
7% of whites.

A black man is 2.5 times more likely to be shot by a cop.

An unarmed black man is 5 times more likely to be shot by a cop than an unarmed white person.

40% of unarmed people shot by the police were black men who make up 6% of the population.

and the response is more excuses " well blacks commit more crimes.....

I really don't get this mentality that its okay to shoot a black guy cause they heard on the radio the suspect was also black.


But an independent analysis of The Post’sdata conducted by a team of criminal-justice researchers concluded that, when factoring in threat level, black Americans who are fatally shot by police are no more likely to be posing an imminent lethal threat to the officers at the moment they are killed than white Americans fatally shot by police.

[Study finds police fatally shoot unarmed black men at disproportionate rates]

The study also sought to answer whether officers were more likely to shoot and kill someone who is unarmed if the shooting happened to occur in a high-crime area. They concluded that is not the case.

“The only thing that was significant in predicting whether someone shot and killed by police was unarmed was whether or not they were black,” said Justin Nix, a criminal-justice researcher at the University of Louisville and one of the report’s authors, said in April. “Crime variables did not matter in terms of predicting whether the person killed was unarmed.”


The goal isn't here to identify Racist who treat people poorly because they hate someone of a different race.

The goal is to identify cases where systematic racism that remains in our culture. whether conscious or subconsciously are being perpetrated.

Both Officer Yanez and this St louis veteran cop acted in irrational fear and these types of shooting can be accoided or significantly reduced


not by giving out a free pass card

 

[David.]

so if someone carries a gun.... its because they want to shoot it? or they aren't trained to use it?

One of the problems with society is that people are not more proactive

Not everyone can expect a cop to show up within minutes of something occurring.

Police work for the people. The people aren't cows meant to be sorted out branded then sent to the pasture.


people are innocent until proven guilty.
Law enforcement should be accountable for their actions.

Linus would suffocate with all these security blankets millennials wrap themselves in.

the fact is that 13 percent of blacks fatality shot by cops are unarmed
7% of whites.

A black man is 2.5 times more likely to be shot by a cop.

An unarmed black man is 5 times more likely to be shot by a cop than an unarmed white person.

40% of unarmed people shot by the police were black men who make up 6% of the population.

and the response is more excuses " well blacks commit more crimes.....

I really don't get this mentality that its okay to shoot a black guy cause they heard on the radio the suspect was also black.


But an independent analysis of The Post’sdata conducted by a team of criminal-justice researchers concluded that, when factoring in threat level, black Americans who are fatally shot by police are no more likely to be posing an imminent lethal threat to the officers at the moment they are killed than white Americans fatally shot by police.

[Study finds police fatally shoot unarmed black men at disproportionate rates]

The study also sought to answer whether officers were more likely to shoot and kill someone who is unarmed if the shooting happened to occur in a high-crime area. They concluded that is not the case.

“The only thing that was significant in predicting whether someone shot and killed by police was unarmed was whether or not they were black,” said Justin Nix, a criminal-justice researcher at the University of Louisville and one of the report’s authors, said in April. “Crime variables did not matter in terms of predicting whether the person killed was unarmed.”


The goal isn't here to identify Racist who treat people poorly because they hate someone of a different race.

The goal is to identify cases where systematic racism that remains in our culture. whether conscious or subconsciously are being perpetrated.

Both Officer Yanez and this St louis veteran cop acted in irrational fear and these types of shooting can be accoided or significantly reduced


not by giving out a free pass card

Oh Jesus man.

Have you controlled for the amount of crime committed when comparing white and blacks killed by cops? Because when you do, blacks commit 4x as much crime. Which means they're shot less often per interaction with police than whites. So that sort of completely fucks up the narrative, doesn't it. If a population commits 4x the crime and only make up 2.5 times as many killings what is your conclusion? It's that they're underrepresented when controlling for actual crime committed, which is the correct variable for which you should account. Why are you calling "statistical explanations" "excuses"?

The population of specifically black specifically men doesn't matter when considering, among other things, that women commit less than 10% of any crime, and black men commit more than 50%. You're not looking at the right denominators. At all.

Does tamir rice qualify as unarmed? Or Mike Brown? Do you see why this isn't a great analysis?

Just for starters. The rest is filled with faulty logic and leaps.

 

[DJTJ]

Typically, you find yourself in those situations, you don't go sprinting towards them, no. I wouldn't encourage that.

However, I do believe, say for example, the guy who shut down that mall shooting a few years back was a Good Samaritan by drawing on the gunman. In that moment, he could have easily been fired upon because the Police may have doubted who was who (which was actually your point in why this was accidental above).

As a CCW holder, I like to think anytime I'd use my firearm in a public setting, that it'd be with the spirit of being a Good Samaritan (not THE Good Samaritan, don't go completely theological here ).

I've been proud of my fellow Ohioans though. CCW hasn't resulted in the insanity many feared it may, nor has it created a Wild West environment.

I fully believe that, if gun shots were heard and not seen (i.e. not a situation where you have a CCW and are immediately within a situation, that if some goes to seek the issue, any fatalities they cause are from them wanting to join in.

No one, CCW or not, wants to voluntarily enter an outside situation to participate in a shootout without the intent of purposefully shooting someone.

If that makes sense, idk. CCW has me all kinds of fucked personally. Like the 20 something at Village Inn (think Bob Evans) on pie day who came in with it visibly strapped to his hip as if the old people wanting pie were going to put his life at risk.

There's a huge difference in my brain of having it, being responsible and actually making sure it's concealed, because putting it in the open made me very uncomfortable (like the kind of uncomfortable that also having a gun wouldn't fix). Like he's seeking to take a hero shot?

 

[DJTJ]

so if someone carries a gun.... its because they want to shoot it? or they aren't trained to use it?

One of the problems with society is that people are not more proactive

Not everyone can expect a cop to show up within minutes of something occurring.

Police work for the people. The people aren't cows meant to be sorted out branded then sent to the pasture.


people are innocent until proven guilty.
Law enforcement should be accountable for their actions.

Linus would suffocate with all these security blankets millennials wrap themselves in.

the fact is that 13 percent of blacks fatality shot by cops are unarmed
7% of whites.

A black man is 2.5 times more likely to be shot by a cop.

An unarmed black man is 5 times more likely to be shot by a cop than an unarmed white person.

40% of unarmed people shot by the police were black men who make up 6% of the population.

and the response is more excuses " well blacks commit more crimes.....

I really don't get this mentality that its okay to shoot a black guy cause they heard on the radio the suspect was also black.


But an independent analysis of The Post’sdata conducted by a team of criminal-justice researchers concluded that, when factoring in threat level, black Americans who are fatally shot by police are no more likely to be posing an imminent lethal threat to the officers at the moment they are killed than white Americans fatally shot by police.

[Study finds police fatally shoot unarmed black men at disproportionate rates]

The study also sought to answer whether officers were more likely to shoot and kill someone who is unarmed if the shooting happened to occur in a high-crime area. They concluded that is not the case.

“The only thing that was significant in predicting whether someone shot and killed by police was unarmed was whether or not they were black,” said Justin Nix, a criminal-justice researcher at the University of Louisville and one of the report’s authors, said in April. “Crime variables did not matter in terms of predicting whether the person killed was unarmed.”


The goal isn't here to identify Racist who treat people poorly because they hate someone of a different race.

The goal is to identify cases where systematic racism that remains in our culture. whether conscious or subconsciously are being perpetrated.

Both Officer Yanez and this St louis veteran cop acted in irrational fear and these types of shooting can be accoided or significantly reduced


not by giving out a free pass card

You're arguing up the wrong tree... I tend to agree with you on a systemic level.

But sometimes, as with this off duty situation, it's not a systemic problem or something you can attribute to it. You're doing a disservice to yourself and your arguement by trying to pigeonhole black person shot by cop. Not all situations are the same.

 

[Wrathe]

I don't know what I'd do if I had a gun. Yeesh

No offense, but I feel better with the belief that you don't.

Seriously though, they're not for everyone. I had no interest despite my Dad owning them. Life just changed.