Racial Tension in the U.S.

[MediumBaller]

Go ahead and start there.

What do they want, as an organization? What is their end goal?

The "preservation" of the white race and furthering its interests seems to be their main goal.

 

[Cavatt]

Listen I love free speech and I do not want people to go to jail for their views.

I am not going to try to crucify someone when they punch a guy who just told him his mother's pussy smells.

Likewise, I don't want the government putting them in jail for their racist rants, but if someone beats their ass, I am not going to say that person who did it is worse. You got beat up for a view which no one should have in 2017. You are gross and disgusting and you got your ass handed to you for it and also that guy may be charged with assault.

Go ahead and go up to someone and say the worst possible things you can say to another human. You aren't going to go unscathed 100% of the time. Say some shit to the police and see how far you get with that.

Have the police arrest the person for assault, but I am more worried about the guy who ran people down with his car, or killed 2 people with a knife on the bus.

 

[AZ_]

The "preservation" of the white race and furthering its interests seems to be their main goal.

How do they believe they will achieve that goal?

Blood and soil?

 

[OptimusPrime]

Beyond the white people that actually fired shots at protestors, or burned them with tiki torches, or ran down an innocent woman among dozens of others in a car, the nature of their beliefs are founded in the removal of other races that are not white.

Their nature and end goal is violence and intimidation, a direct threat to the property of anyone who is not white.

This (IMO) is different from a group like BLM who values to progression of social injustice, while still having to deal with issues related to violence.

I assume those people were handled, right? And by the way you didn't answer my question, I assume the guy whose threats you were complaining about did nothing, right?

And I also assume that the BLM folks that tweet out that white people should be killed (yes, I've seen them) should also be dealt with the same way, right? Just because some BLM members want to kill white people doesn't mean I think the whole group does. But I assume you do, because you think the same of the white nationalists because some of them want to kill blacks?

 

[TyGuy]

Listen I love free speech and I do not want people to go to jail for their views.

I am not going to try to crucify someone when they punch a guy who just told him his mother's pussy smells.

Likewise, I don't want the government putting them in jail for their racist rants, but if someone beats their ass, I am not going to say that person who did it is worse. You got beat up for a view which no one should have in 2017. You are gross and disgusting and you got your ass handed to you for it and also that guy may be charged with assault.

Go ahead and go up to someone and say the worst possible things you can say to another human. You aren't going to go unscathed 100% of the time. Say some shit to the police and see how far you get with that.

Have the police arrest the person for assault, but I am more worried about the guy who ran people down with his car, or killed 2 people with a knife on the bus.

So you're more worried about violence that takes place on the right than the left rather than condemning all violence, but you think everybody should be prosecuted for assault?

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

I get where you're coming from, but there's a difference between privately being a racist, and being a white nationalist, the latter implying that you think whites should be the legally privileged race.

That's a inference that you're making, without any proof that's actually want all "white nationalists" endorse. Did you read the article from The Nation describing black nationalism? It actually accused "the Establishment" and the right of misrepresenting that black nationalism was inherently violent.

Again, if you take a platform of excluding immigrants, whites voluntarily choosing not to associate with black people, and couple that with reducing all welfare benefits (under the belief that this would cripple black people), you have a "white nationalist" agenda that requires no violence, and without whites being legally privileged.

It's odious, racist,and un-American. But it doesn't have to be endorsing violence.

 

[MediumBaller]

How do they believe they will achieve that goal?

Blood and soil?

Check out some of Jared Taylor's pieces. He explains it better than I can. It's a spectrum of beliefs and it's hard to find one umbrella way to describe the entire faction.

 

[Nathan S]

That's a inference that you're making, without any proof that's actually want all "white nationalists" endorse. Did you read the article from The Nation describing black nationalism? It actually accused "the Establishment" and the right of misrepresenting that black nationalism was inherently violent.

Again, if you take a platform of excluding immigrants, whites voluntarily choosing not to associate with black people, and couple that with reducing all welfare benefits (under the belief that this would cripple black people), you have a "white nationalist" agenda that requires no violence, and without whites being legally privileged.

It's odious, racist,and un-American. But it doesn't have to be endorsing violence.

So the only legal objectives these "white nationalists" have is lower welfare and immigration? Wouldn't that just make them run-of-the-mill Republicans, politically?

As for the "black nationalist" movement (I sort of speed-read the article so correct me if I'm wrong), it seems like it was only a thing during segregation, which some blacks saw as an alternative to getting rid of segregation? I don't think there's a substantial movement today seeking black nationalism, that is, a nation where blacks are the legally privileged race.

 

[MediumBaller]

Listen I love free speech and I do not want people to go to jail for their views.

I am not going to try to crucify someone when they punch a guy who just told him his mother's pussy smells.

Likewise, I don't want the government putting them in jail for their racist rants, but if someone beats their ass, I am not going to say that person who did it is worse. You got beat up for a view which no one should have in 2017. You are gross and disgusting and you got your ass handed to you for it and also that guy may be charged with assault.

Go ahead and go up to someone and say the worst possible things you can say to another human. You aren't going to go unscathed 100% of the time. Say some shit to the police and see how far you get with that.

Have the police arrest the person for assault, but I am more worried about the guy who ran people down with his car, or killed 2 people with a knife on the bus.

What if she does have a really smelly pussy though?

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

So the only legal objectives these "white nationalists" have is lower welfare and immigration?

No. I said either eliminating immigration completely, or limiting it only to white people.
Don't know many Republicans who support that.

Again, this is all definitional - how you choose to define "white nationalism" determine the answer to the violence question.

To be honest, I really try to avoid these definitional debates other than to point out the inherent arbitrariness, and the importance of keeping the focus on conduct/belief itself rather than the sometimes-shifting labels we apply to them.

There is a debate/arguing tactic employed by some people that involves trying to define people or concepts by changing or "correcting" the "true meaning" of how they define themselves.

Labels that don't have generally accepted definitions are often worse than useless.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

I don't think there's a substantial movement today seeking black nationalism, that is, a nation where blacks are the legally privileged race.

I don't think there is a substantial "white nationalist" movement today either. They're both fringe, but their prevalence is exaggerated by both sides for political advantage.

The rise of black nationalist groups that captivated killers in Dallas, Baton Rouge

Micah Xavier Johnson, who killed five police officers in Dallas, was increasingly drawn to black nationalist ideology and attended several meetings of the People’s New Black Panther Party.

Gavin Eugene Long, who killed three officers in Baton Rouge, said he belonged to the Washitaw Nation, an obscure black nationalist group that claims ownership to the huge swath of the United States obtained in the Louisiana Purchase on the belief that they are descended from a U.S. indigenous group.

The People’s New Black Panther Party and the Washitaw Nation have vastly different ideologies and no direct ties to each other, but they are part of a broad landscape of black nationalist groups playing a role in the country’s violent summer 2016.

“There are a few big groups and a lot of little ones, and they are growing in an echo chamber where all they hear is ‘anger, anger, anger, anger, anger,’ ” said J.J. MacNab, an author and George Washington University researcher who specializes in extremism.

Some of these entities espouse extremist, anti-government views, and their numbers jumped from 113 groups in 2014 to 180 last year, according to the Southern Poverty Law Center, which tracks extremism....

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati...3ab49ed5e6a_story.html?utm_term=.14214b29773d

 

[David.]

So the only legal objectives these "white nationalists" have is lower welfare and immigration? Wouldn't that just make them run-of-the-mill Republicans, politically?

As for the "black nationalist" movement (I sort of speed-read the article so correct me if I'm wrong), it seems like it was only a thing during segregation, which some blacks saw as an alternative to getting rid of segregation? I don't think there's a substantial movement today seeking black nationalism, that is, a nation where blacks are the legally privileged race.

That k you for being cool headed and rational and genuinely trying to hear people out. Thread needs more yous

 

[TyGuy]

So the only legal objectives these "white nationalists" have is lower welfare and immigration? Wouldn't that just make them run-of-the-mill Republicans, politically?

As for the "black nationalist" movement (I sort of speed-read the article so correct me if I'm wrong), it seems like it was only a thing during segregation, which some blacks saw as an alternative to getting rid of segregation? I don't think there's a substantial movement today seeking black nationalism, that is, a nation where blacks are the legally privileged race.

You're lucky nobody that argues against you isn't here to incorrectly tell you that you didn't read the article at all with that statement.

I said something similar in regards to the google manifesto and then I was told over and over that I didn't read the manifesto. Somehow not reading something cover to cover with a magnified glass equals not reading the document at all.

 

[Nathan S]

I don't think there is a substantial "white nationalist" movement today either. They're both fringe, but their prevalence is exaggerated by both sides for political advantage.

The rise of black nationalist groups that captivated killers in Dallas, Baton Rouge

Micah Xavier Johnson, who killed five police officers in Dallas, was increasingly drawn to black nationalist ideology and attended several meetings of the People’s New Black Panther Party.

Gavin Eugene Long, who killed three officers in Baton Rouge, said he belonged to the Washitaw Nation, an obscure black nationalist group that claims ownership to the huge swath of the United States obtained in the Louisiana Purchase on the belief that they are descended from a U.S. indigenous group.

The People’s New Black Panther Party and the Washitaw Nation have vastly different ideologies and no direct ties to each other, but they are part of a broad landscape of black nationalist groups playing a role in the country’s violent summer 2016.

“There are a few big groups and a lot of little ones, and they are growing in an echo chamber where all they hear is ‘anger, anger, anger, anger, anger,’ ” said J.J. MacNab, an author and George Washington University researcher who specializes in extremism.

Some of these entities espouse extremist, anti-government views, and their numbers jumped from 113 groups in 2014 to 180 last year, according to the Southern Poverty Law Center, which tracks extremism....

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati...3ab49ed5e6a_story.html?utm_term=.14214b29773d

Fair enough; if my understanding of their ideology is correct, the New Black Panther Party is another violent hate group that I don't think should be allowed to hold public rallies.

 

[AZ_]

Check out some of Jared Taylor's pieces. He explains it better than I can. It's a spectrum of beliefs and it's hard to find one umbrella way to describe the entire faction.

Google search him and break it down for me.

I'm confident you haven't read him, and likely just found out who he was because Dave mentioned him.

But please educate me on what you've learned.