Rate the last movie you saw

[The Oi]

Would you two shut the fuck up

 

[gourimoko]

im trying to make this as specific as possible. it seems like there is a tent under which events and decisions are made - some of them predictable and some not. you are saying the aliens did not know EXACTLY how theyd die? so they went through with it? but that that specific alien did know that he was going to die?

Yes, precisely.

If you could see your own future, and move through it freely... and when you tried to see your 57th birthday, or your 58th or 59th and there was nothing.. You could reasonably assume you were dead. You might even know the day it happens, but not what it was that killed you -- it may have been quite sudden, or unknown.

this contradicts the implication in my previous paragraph. in your example, they know concretely what would happen and they made their decision based on that information. im asking how that makes sense in that example (seeing their specific demise and making decisions based on that vision), but they didnt slightly adjust their behaviors according to the fruitless missions to the other 11 parts of the earth, and the negative consequences (which.. would be 'seeing their specific demise and making decisions based on that vision)

I'm not sure I understand what you mean.

1) The other 11 ships were not fruitless; they were all required, they all served a purpose. Remember, the world was brought to the brink because these ships were all over the planet. If they were only in Montana, this wouldn't have happened.

2) Knowing future potentials doesn't mean you can totally change outcomes to anything you can imagine. You can only change it within the possibilities that exist for you today. For Abbot, it seemed like it was of great importance to get the message across even if it meant his death.

like they should have known that at a certain point they would have worn out their welcome. should have given the message before then. didnt need to go to china. could have left a day earlier too.

I think they realized all of this...

Also, I'm not sure why they wouldn't go to China? The whole point is to get people working together; remember China, Russia, Pakistan were all in alignment here. That's almost 2 billion people. So by not visiting these nations, you're not testing all of humanity, just a select group.

Also, they weren't simply trying to communicate; this was a test. So, giving the answer to the test, or just conveying the message immediately, doesn't actually bring about the desired end -- which, was to see humanity work together and put aside their differences.

Remember, in the future, all of these governments were coming together as one.

why didnt they know sooner? thats the entire point of the movie, they can see the future.

I am not sure why you think they didn't know?

ug ill at least humor that idea when i watch it again. i just think the us military was cool with amy doing her shit on her own. they trusted her evetnually. she could have done her work without everyone getting involved. i know the film wants to send that message, but realistically i dont think all of that is necessary. countries take shit from each other all the time. they build off ideas. amy adams had no way of restricting other people to learn the language (which im under the impression was the weapon/tool, that she disseminated to the rest of the world)

Remember, the aliens are NOT simply trying to communicate... They are trying to (1) get humanity to unite; (2) to test humanity's ability to learn and reason; (3) to end humanity's tribal conflicts; (3) to get human beings to think as they do, thus unlocking their innate potential.

The language was not the "weapon/tool" but the manner of thinking.

This is based around the idea that language helps shape not only cognitive patterns in the brain, but literally builds up new brain matter, rapidly, while re-wiring the brain structure. That's why the aliens don't simply decide to speak English.. as it would defeat the purpose of them coming there. That's why they don't simply go to Montana, and that's why they give humanity every opportunity to fuck this up; because it's a test.

Also, the language was never meant to be restricted. The idea was that humans would learn it universally, and transcend. Amy's character wasn't 'a gatekeeper, but instead, more of a pioneer.

 

[David.]

Would you two shut the fuck up

Your labia are showing

 

[The Oi]

Your labia are showing

Only one of them?

 

[David.]

I'm not sure I understand what you mean.

our positions are contingent upon the next paragraph. we disagree, but I'll listen, i could not have thought it through. its the crux of the argument/all my issues with the movie.

1) The other 11 ships were not fruitless; they were all required, they all served a purpose. Remember, the world was brought to the brink because these ships were all over the planet. If they were only in Montana, this wouldn't have happened.

i just dont agree. amy adams would have still been in that ship in montana. she still would have come out of it with the language (and everything that came with it.) she wouldnt be holding it secret.

Also, I'm not sure why they wouldn't go to China? The whole point is to get people working together; remember China, Russia, Pakistan were all in alignment here. That's almost 2 billion people. So by not visiting these nations, you're not testing all of humanity, just a select group.

what evidence do you have that its crucial to get them working together? and that we were in fact going to blow ourselves up?

Also, they weren't simply trying to communicate; this was a test. So, giving the answer to the test, or just conveying the message immediately, doesn't actually bring about the desired end -- which, was to see humanity work together and put aside their differences.

what evidence leads you to believe it was a test? and again, wouldnt they already know the answer to this considering they can see into the future?

I am not sure why you think they didn't know?

because they would have mass blotted amy and scientist the previous session and avoid dying if they had. thats at the very least. you and i disagree on the point of the necessity of visiting everywhere else, but i dont accept that premise at the moment

 

[gourimoko]

our positions are contingent upon the next paragraph. we disagree, but I'll listen, i could not have thought it through. its the crux of the argument/all my issues with the movie.

Alright let's go through them.

i just dont agree. amy adams would have still been in that ship in montana. she still would have come out of it with the language (and everything that came with it.) she wouldnt be holding it secret.

Well, first off, she wouldn't have come out with the language on her own unless they wanted her to. In the film, as the aliens conducted their test, she studied it alongside a hundred other scientists for days relying a great deal on their collaborative work. Which, was the point. She made a breakthrough, and she was the first to understand it, but, she relied on the work of others .. and .. others also made significant discoveries simultaneously.

This process is actually fairly similar to the culture barriers and political barriers that were broken down during the Manhattan Project at Los Alamos, as well as the scientific communities .. vision .. for the ethic (against the Nazis) and unethical (against the Japanese) use of nuclear weapons during World War II.

Also, it seems like you're leaving out the part that the aliens divided the message among 12 ships to get all of humanity to work together. If they just wanted to abduct a linguist and have them learn the language (or a child, which would be far easier) then they would've done that instead. Remember, there is a specific reason to send 12 ships -- it was specifically to get humanity to work together to solve the problem.

what evidence do you have that its crucial to get them working together? and that we were in fact going to blow ourselves up?

Sure...

Very early on, Ian rather expositionally states that "Language is the foundation of civilization. It is the glue that holds a people together, and it is the first weapon drawn in conflict."

This statement basically sums up the movie, and it prepares the audience for what's about to come.

Later on, this exact question comes up and is answered, again, expositionally. In a scene in the third act of the film; the Russians kill off their last remaining chief scientist because they are fearful of sharing any more information with the outside world. Remember, many countries, as they make discoveries, are going dark; hoping to use the open scientific sharing they've enjoyed up to that point, as enough of a start to solve the puzzle on their own and get a technological advantage.

And before I get more into this scene;

what evidence leads you to believe it was a test?

Because they explain it's a test in the third act, a few times. The first time Amy Adams character, Louise has the following interaction (again, starting with the Russian scientist):

Russian Scientist: "Their final words translate to 'There is no time, many become one.' I fear we have all been given weapons because we answer the timeline wrong, please, if you" (Russians kill him)

LOUISE: "I mean, there are ways to interpret what he said..."
Agent Halpern: "I don't need an interpret to know what this means. Russia just executed own of their own experts to keep their secrets."
(puts on TV monitor):
Every Shell now hovers over their site. From Hokkaido to
Wales, the massive spheres hang in the air. Waiting.

LOUISE: "Many become one" could just be their way of saying "some assembly required..."

AGENT HALPERN: Why hand it out to us in pieces? Why not just give it all over?
LOUISE: What better way to force us all to work together, for once?

Halpern looks to the other people in the room. Weber studies
him carefully, Ian nods, in support of Louise,

AGENT HALPERN: Even if I did believe you, how in the world are you going to get anyone else to play along and give up their data?
(Ian jumps on this one)
IAN: We offer our own in return.
(Halpern looks to Weber. Is he serious?)
AGENT HALPERN: A trade.
IAN: So it's a non-zero-sum game.
(Louise hears this and it dawns on her)
LAKE HOUSE - LOUISE'S STUDY - NIGHT (FLASHBACK)
Hannah storms down the hall. Picking up right where we left
her from the previous flashback.
Louise sits forward, with that same look of realization:
LOUISE: A non-zero-sum game!

and again, wouldnt they already know the answer to this considering they can see into the future?

Again, I think you're still thinking of time as a one-dimensional continuum of events; but if you recall, they explain that time is spatial. That's the gift. That's the weapon. That's the tool. So they can experience and even interact with potential futures based on the path they are on. It's not omniscience, though; because there is still the element of choice - and thus, potential. So they can't know with certainty how humanity will respond; they likely just know it's worth the risk at this point.

because they would have mass blotted amy and scientist the previous session and avoid dying if they had. thats at the very least.

Well, again, I think there's a difference in how they view the experience compared to you and I.

From Abbot and Costello's experience, yes, it was a dangerous attack but one that they could surely survive. But Costello later states that Abbot is not "dead" but instead says that "Abbot is death process;" which entails something quite different. Abbot saves Louise in the process, which, was a choice of his to make. This choice happens because of the attack, but, it's not a final end to Abbot, insomuch as it demarcates his path to any future from a linear-perspective -- a perspective that the aliens do not perceive. So relative to Louise, Abbot "is death process;" but relative to Costello, that's obviously not the case (see Louise's time with her daughter).

So from Abbot's perspective, there was value in delivering the message as he did. It's not that he didn't know or couldn't prevent it.. and from our perspective, we might not value it the same way since we would perceive it as a final end to our own lives.

Now one could argue, well, didn't Abbot see that coming? Yes, he did.. but he may have chosen to sacrifice himself in this respect in the same way Louise chooses to have a terminally ill child that will cost her her husband.

And not to get overly dramatic but, this is kind of like the same question asked of Jesus. Why didn't he just hop down off the cross? I mean.. he saw it coming, and he had the power to prevent it. But, what's missed is the sacrifice itself.

you and i disagree on the point of the necessity of visiting everywhere else, but i dont accept that premise at the moment

Do we still disagree? Again, I would point out that it's stated explicitly in the movie why they did this..

Louise even goes on towards the end to breakdown the fact that the logograms are broken into twelve parts, by her, and that the aliens knew humans would interpret them this way, because that's how Louise would initially interpret them (as twelve discrete segments), and that's why they send twelve ships... (insert mind-blown gif)

So the logograms are metaphorically representative of all the instances in the past, present, and future; as well as the twelve ships that come to Earth; as well as the Twelve Tribes of Israel (or, in essence, the tribes of civilization).

p.s.
Did you notice, when you look at the logograms closely, they actually change shape.

 

[DJTJ]

What the fuck is going on here

 

[Maximus]

Get a room...

 

[Jack Brickman]

The Snowman - 3/10

What a piece of shit this was. I was hoping for a reasonably competent thriller, but that was not what I got. The editing in this movie was really, really awful. It felt very stilted and awkward in a manner that's hard to describe. It made it feel like something was very off about the film and killed the pacing.

The story wasn't anything special. The killer's motives were kind of blah, the death scenes weren't satisfying or particularly interesting, and the overall film was just boring. It was strange seeing so many acclaimed actors like Michael Fassbender and JK Simmons show up in such a garbage film, and Simmons' accent was pretty terrible. The climax was crappy and predictable as well.

I've heard the novel version is very good and the film changed a lot. If true, they clearly changed basically all of it for the worse. The trailers made the film look interesting, but I'd recommend just staying away.

 

[TheProdigy]

Wind River and Sicario - both great movies.

Watching Hell or High Water tonight.

 

[col63onel]

Wind River and Sicario - both great movies.

Watching Hell or High Water tonight.

All 3 great

I’d say Sicario is the best if the 3. A sequel is coming out this year.

 

[Zeus69]

I was supposedly shown to be a pretty intelligent dude at a young age, but each time I try to casually follow along in one of these “analytical” threads (often Gouri-centric), I’m convinced I somehow cheated on the IQ test.

 

[gourimoko]

The Snowman - 3/10

What a piece of shit this was. I was hoping for a reasonably competent thriller, but that was not what I got. The editing in this movie was really, really awful. It felt very stilted and awkward in a manner that's hard to describe. It made it feel like something was very off about the film and killed the pacing.

The story wasn't anything special. The killer's motives were kind of blah, the death scenes weren't satisfying or particularly interesting, and the overall film was just boring. It was strange seeing so many acclaimed actors like Michael Fassbender and JK Simmons show up in such a garbage film, and Simmons' accent was pretty terrible. The climax was crappy and predictable as well.

I've heard the novel version is very good and the film changed a lot. If true, they clearly changed basically all of it for the worse. The trailers made the film look interesting, but I'd recommend just staying away.

My God what a bad movie.

 

[Jack Brickman]

My God what a bad movie.

I'm going to read the book now to see how it compares.

Well, after I finish the latest Expanse novel.

 

[Chris]

The new Sicario looks awesome but also like they realized the first one needed more action and ramped the Action Meter from a 2 to a 12.