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San Bernardino mass shooting...

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I'm not defending or am I supporting the Trump plan on Muslims. The Carter thing has one vast difference, the ban was against a Country and its citizens. What Trump is suggesting is a ban against a religion. That is so hard for so many people on both sides to stomach because one of the main reasons this country was established was freedom of religion and freedom from the persecution of the religion of their choice.
 
Im not a Trump supporter either, just pointing out that Trump hasn't said his plan is to deport Muslims as boobie said. I also don't think he said he's in favor of banning a religion as you just said. He called for a temporary pause in Muslim immigration to review the vetting process to ensure everyone's safety. Personally, i don't think it's the crime of the century the anti-Trump contingent is trying to make out to be. If he wants to ban a religion or deporting a religion, then yes, of course, that would be despicable...but that isn't what he has suggested.

Some Muslim leaders agree with a temporary ban...and are getting fired for it.


Texas imam agrees with Trump’s ban on Muslims, forced to resign
December 11, 2015
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AB Wire


Dr. Nidal Alsayyed, the religious director of the Islamic Society of the Triplex, in Beaumont, Texas, was forced to resign after he made comments that supported businessman and Republican Party presidential nominee contender Donald Trump’s statement that the US should temporarily stop accepting any new Muslim immigrants into the country.

“Don’t get me involved in any political games in the name of religion. I am not here a political man,” Alsayyed was quoted as saying by the local Fox News. “Sadly, it’s Clinton versus Trump,” he added.

Alsayyed told KFDM News he was forced to resign as religious director of the Islamic Society of the Triplex after making comments Monday in which he agrees with Donald Trump’s statements that the U.S. should temporarily stop accepting any new Muslim immigrants into the country.

While the religious leader said he expected the call to resign eventually, he said it was sped up by politics.

“I think any future candidates, presidents who do not support the fact that we need to be more safe and more cautious about whom to bring into this country, whether a Muslim or not,” Dr. Alsayyed said. His comments he said had nothing to do with politics, but the former Imam said Trump’s comments are in line with the Islamic religion. “The text of the holy Quran says the loss of one life is equivalent to killing the whole mankind,” he said.

Fox reported that the imam’s viewpoint shifted after lingering questions about the backgrounds of the Pakistani American couple responsible for the mass shooting in San Bernardino.

“But the way it happens when you see this mass shooting and you see some people coming with such a very peaceful background and all of the sudden the intelligences themselves, the agencies are not able to figure out what’s happening, why all of a sudden this guy or this girl or that lady open fire and kill 15 people, because American Muslims are not doing their job in the country. So we need to stop, we need to stop taking new ones until we fix the existing situation,” Alsayyed was quoted as saying.

He said there is a problem with some American Muslims seeing a conflict between following their religious beliefs and their patriotism to the U.S., and an issue differentiating the religious community and its political role. He said the two should not mix.

“I came to know this morning from some close contacts and friends over 102 Imams, religious people in Houston, were fired and forced to be basically leave their jobs, leave their mosques only because they did not get along with the political agenda for their board members,” he said.

Alsayyed said he took the position to help young people here understand Islam, and it’s the youth where Islamic leaders should focus their attention.

“Nobody is investing a dollar to basically raise the understanding what does it take for a Muslim to live in the United States,” he said.


More from Alsayyed, “they are being told to either support political correctness or leave. A board member has vocally and financially supported democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton.”

“We in this country as Imams are getting unfair treatment when they are being forced to manufacture or go with some political campaigning and not considering the safety and peace of the people.”

“I certainly see it to be wise [to] stop temporarily accepting any new Muslim immigrants [refugees and non-refugees] into the United States.”

“It does not matter whether Trump said it or anyone else … American Muslims need to say we are with this country.” He also said they should raise the American flag in support of the nation.

“We American Muslims need to be sincere in our religion and to the country we are living in. Peace comes before religion. We need to be truthful and transparent when we express a viewpoint or feedback. It does not matter whether Trump said it or anyone else.”

“Come on, no human being would accept this type of animal behavior. This is like, this is completely, it doesn’t belong to any religion this ISIS.”
 
Yea that guy is from my home town, I have seen that.


I wasn't implying he wanted to Ban then permanently but The Carter comparison was brought up


I have also seen Muslims coming out and droves against the terrorist but main steam America doesn't really want to hear that.

They don't want to talk about the money recently raised for the 14 people murdered recently.

I have tried to stay impartial but honestly I'm so fucking tired of the "news" that is "objective" and "Fair".

My personal beliefs is that the Islam and the religion are built on hate. I don't care either way but that's my opinion right or wrong. However around the water cooler people kept saying why won't Muslims come out and support America! Thy are citizens ect ect, well they have and thy are but again no one will give it the air time cause it doesn't seem to fit the agenda.

I'm not saying Christianity is any better or atheism or satanaic worship so please don't get hung up on my personal opinion, cause the big picture I am currently on the Muslims side. Well the Muslims who have been doing and saying the right things but no one wants to pay attention to them.
 
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I'm not defending or am I supporting the Trump plan on Muslims. The Carter thing has one vast difference, the ban was against a Country and its citizens. What Trump is suggesting is a ban against a religion. That is so hard for so many people on both sides to stomach because one of the main reasons this country was established was freedom of religion and freedom from the persecution of the religion of their choice.

That freedom only extends to residents of this country. It does not extend to everyone outside of this country.
 
Yea that guy is from my home town, I have seen that.


I wasn't implying he wanted to Ban then permanently but The Carter comparison was brought up


I have also seen Muslims coming out and droves against the terrorist but main steam America doesn't really want to hear that.

They don't want to talk about the money recently raised for the 14 people murdered recently.

I have tried to stay impartial but honestly I'm so fucking tired of the "news" that is "objective" and "Fair".

My personal beliefs is that the Islam and the religion are built on hate. I don't care either way but that's my opinion right or wrong. However around the water cooler people kept saying why won't Muslims come out and support America! Thy are citizens ect ect, well they have and thy are but again no one will give it the air time cause it doesn't seem to fit the agenda.

I'm not saying Christianity is any better or atheism or satanaic worship so please don't get hung up on my personal opinion, cause the big picture I am currently on the Muslims side. Well the Muslims who have been doing and saying the right things but no one wants to pay attention to them.

Lack of objectivity affects people on both sides of the "aisle". On one side, you have FOX basically rallying against a religion & telling half-truths to get people riled up. On the other side, liberal media is comparing Trump's comments to Hitler's genocide and saying Trump is going to have Muslims in internment camps. Neither side is being genuine in their reporting. This is how you get the divide happening in this Country right now.
 

Wow...

For those too lazy to click on the link -

Homeland Security Shut Down Investigation Into Farook And Malik Linked Islamist Group To Protect ‘Civil Liberties’ Of Potential Terrorists

Screen-Shot-2015-12-11-at-12.05.11-640x480.png

Fox News
by LIAM DEACON11 Dec 20152,146

The Department of Homeland Security (DHS) has been accused of deleting intelligence records relating to dangerous Islamists linked to terrorists Sayed Farook and Tashfeen Malik, because they wanted to protect the “civil liberties” of members of the caliphate-supporting network.
Phil Haney, a U.S. Customs and Border Patrol analyst, says he was ordered to stop investigating Deobandi Islamist groups and his work on them was erased. He even says he was subjected to a disciplinary when he attempted to blow the whistle.

If he’d been allowed to continue his investigation, he claims Malik’s visa application would have been flagged for greater scrutiny.

He explained: “The administration was more concerned about the civil rights and liberties of foreign Islamic groups with terrorist ties than the safety and security of Americans”.

Analyst Phil Haney told Fox News that he once worked as a researcher looking into potential terrorists in the Passenger Analysis Units at the Department of Homeland Security in Atlanta, as well as at the U.S. Customs and Border Protection’s National Targeting Center.

Mr. Haney says that he had been identifying and tracking members of the al-Huda and Tablighi Jamaat groups, offshoots of the radical Deobandi school of Islam, which was founded in British colonial India specifically to oppose western culture.

Tablighi Jamaat is a Deobandi revivalist movement whose mandate is, according to its leading advocate Ebrahim Rangooni, to save the Muslim world “from the culture and civilisation of the Jews and the Christians…” To this end, he has suggested cultivating “such hatred for their ways as human beings have to urine and excrement.”

Tablighi Jamaat have been linked to 80 per cent of all recent terrorist related crimes in France.

Mr. Haney’s work tracking the radical movement was considered so important that he says he was given an agency award for identifying potential terrorists, and he was asked to become part of the National Targeting Center, which works to connect the dots and build a bigger picture of terrorist activity.

However, after more than six months tracking the Deobandis, Homeland Security unexpectedly halted his investigation on the request of the State Department’s Office of Civil Rights, Haney alleges.

According to Mr. Haney, the agencies argued that since the radical Islamist groups are not specially designated as terrorist organizations, tracking individuals related to them was a violation of the their “civil liberties.”

After his work was shut down he says he met with the DHS Inspector General several Members of Congress in 2013. The DHS and the Justice Department subjected him to an investigation, which showed no wrongdoing on his part, Mr. Haney claims.

However, in September 2014 they sequestered him and revoked his access to the database and his security clearance.
 
http://www.breitbart.com/national-s...protect-civil-liberties-potential-terrorists/

I'm just dying to turn my guns in to this government. @KI4MVP where is the outrage? You talk about wanting to save lives. Doesn't this make your blood boil. That all the systems were already in place to prevent this, but political correctness won the day.

Already have enough laws in place to stop this one. Laws are ignored. Solution : we need more laws...

that's better question for @OptimusPrime because it is an issue related to this thread

http://realcavsfans.com/community/i...ry-and-records-of-all-online-purchases.46461/
 
That's pure propaganda. They don't give a fuck about anyone's civil liberties. All that tells me is the government knew about these people ahead of time, let them in to do what they were going to do, in order to accomplish exactly what they are accomplishing, hatred of Muslims and Boobus calling for the government to take away their own guns. Much like when they let 9/11 happen in order to accomplish their goals of a comprehensive surveillance state.
 

Since he is advocating to stop immigration temporarily, no ones rights are being trampled. Nothing is being done that violates what this country is about. Residents, illegal and legal are still free to practice whatever religion they want without fear of persecution.

We are still America and what he said doesn't change anything that we've always done.
 
Since he is advocating to stop immigration temporarily, no ones rights are being trampled. Nothing is being done that violates what this country is about. Residents, illegal and legal are still free to practice whatever religion they want without fear of persecution.

We are still America and what he said doesn't change anything that we've always done.

I thought the argument was to stop Muslim immigration? Now it's all immigration?

We have quite a few immigrants coming and going in and out of this country. Are we really going to stop all of that because of a shooting?
 
I thought the argument was to stop Muslim immigration? Now it's all immigration?

We have quite a few immigrants coming and going in and out of this country. Are we really going to stop all of that because of a shooting?

Now when we are talking about what Trump said, which is Muslim immigration, I'm assuming others can follow along. I'll stop and make sure it's really spelled out so you don't have to waste time clarifying a known value.
 
^^who talks like this in casual conversation? Besides boogie. And me
 

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