Showdown at the DC Corral (Arenas suspended - pg. 13)

[MYoung23]

I fail to see how that gives him any kind of leeway to do what he did. It was his choice to diverge from his medication and treatment plan. That was a choice and he could have really hurt someone. Arenas is a bit of a wildcard himself but he posed no real direct danger other than possibly setting off another nut with a loaded gun.

It is a known fact that people with mental illness will go off their medication at times because of how it makes them feel. It is part of the managing the illness.

 

[Surge]

Joe H.

The duel in DC -- unprecedented in sports history -- was sparked when Critten ton became enraged at the vet eran guard for refusing to make good on a gambling debt, a source said.

"I'm not your punk!" Crittenton shouted at Arenas, according to a league source close to the Wizards.

That prompted Arenas to draw on Crittenton, who then also grabbed for a gun, league security sources said.

http://www.bulletsforever.com/2010/1/1/1229393/gilbert-arenas-and-javaris

This is just one of the many references I could site... Look, JCrit may have prompted the incident, but where does that give Arenas the right to be packing? I mean come on, this seems pretty easy to me... And I think they should BOTH be charged for whatever the D.A. or whoever thinks they should be...

I know what you mean though, that if Washington is pushing for it for money reasons, they deserve worse than what Portland is going through...

 

[Lee]

Pretty much Lee. unregistered, in a public place. I believe you are forgetting transporting guns across state lines. DC has strict gun laws. He's looking at felonies here, it's a big deal. These aren't misdemeanor's.

I did forget the across state lines. Another thing to consider is DC is not a state, so a crim in DC is actually a federal offense. Arenas intent might not have been worse, but the charges will be far worse.

 

[Splitz]

It is a known fact that people with mental illness will go off their medication at times because of how it makes them feel. It is part of the managing the illness.

I fail to see the logic here. So basically if Delonte West is a danger to society, it is not his responsibility to put himself in a situation where he is consistently cared for properly since he is bipolar? When he puts his own life and others lives at jeaopardy, it's supposed to be looked at as less serious then a guy who tried to play a practical joke using unloaded guns, because said person is sane? That is essentially what you are saying here if you look at your intial response to my post. If Delonte can't make choices to keep himself and those around him safe then he should be institutionalized, since it's out of his hands. How do we know that Arenas doesn't have some kind of mental disorder and just hasn't been diagnosed? I think it's a bit ridiculous to give Delonte a pass because of this and he won't get a pass by the legal system in DC. To say that Arenas' situation is more serious is so hard to fathom for me. If someone kills a member of my family, you better believe it won't matter to me if they are bipolar or not, I still want justice.

 

[myriadwhims]

There is nothing logical when it comes to mental illness.

 

[Lee]

I fail to see the logic here. So basically if Delonte West is a danger to society, it is not his responsibility to put himself in a situation where he is consistently cared for properly since he is bipolar? When he puts his own life and others lives at jeaopardy, it's supposed to be looked at as less serious then a guy who tried to play a practical joke using unloaded guns, because said person is sane? That is essentially what you are saying here if you look at your intial response to my post. If Delonte can't make choices to keep himself and those around him safe then he should be institutionalized, since it's out of his hands. How do we know that Arenas doesn't have some kind of mental disorder and just hasn't been diagnosed? I think it's a bit ridiculous to give Delonte a pass because of this and he won't get a pass by the legal system in DC. To say that Arenas' situation is more serious is so hard to fathom for me. If someone kills a member of my family, you better believe it won't matter to me if they are bipolar or not, I still want justice.

Legally, intent isnt as much of an issue. Its what did they both actually do. The fact that Arenas played a joke isnt an issue. If they were water guns, he wouldnt be in trouble. The fact that he carried 4 unlicensed guns across state lines and had them in an arena in our nation's capitol is a major crime.

Transporting a licensed weapon (or legal i should say, from what i read you dont need a license in maryland, just the back ground check when purchasing) is not illegal. Transporting those same weapons loaded might be a midemeanor depending on the type of weapon. 2 of them were hand guns, thus he gets a misdemeanor transportation charge and some trumped up driving charges.

Not even close to as serious as Gilbert is facing. Dont let logic fool you. This is an issue of law, not logic,.

 

[Maximus]

Before anyone tries to compare West to Arenas just ask themselves this question.

We know West had been off his medication for some time before he was arrested so honestly, if not for his illness, do you really believe that Delonte West, given all that is publicly known about him, would have been out riding recklessly and carrying weapons?

100% yes. Not a single doubt in my mind. He's a "gun guy". He likes them, he carries them with him everywhere...at least he used to. He's also a reckless guy...when he's on his meds or off.

This may have been the first time he's been caught, but I doubt it's the first time.

 

[bomber]

Legally, intent isnt as much of an issue. Its what did they both actually do. The fact that Arenas played a joke isnt an issue. If they were water guns, he wouldnt be in trouble. The fact that he carried 4 unlicensed guns across state lines and had them in an arena in our nation's capitol is a major crime.

Split is talking off of what myoung said. Where as intent isn't something they're discussing. I think Split is talking more about the crime should fit the punishment regardless of mental state.

But with you Lee, I could argue intent. Delonte's guns were loaded, where as Gilbert's were not. Delonte's mental health and his mental state is the x factor, which in my opinion would pose more danger at the time. Handful of guns, loaded, irrational mental state. I don't like those intentions. What if he also knowingly didn't take his meds that day.

Gil is definitely going to be in more trouble with federal and felony charges. I just think it's to hard to say one is worse then the other. Especially when one of them has a mental illness. Both showed error in judgment.

 

[The Oi]

I can't wait til we can finally stop talking about Delonte all the time. There's only one way to solve it.

 

[Lee]

Split is talking off of what myoung said. Where as intent isn't something they're discussing. I think Split is talking more about the crime should fit the punishment regardless of mental state.

But with you Lee, I could argue intent. Delonte's guns were loaded, where as Gilbert's were not. Delonte's mental health and his mental state is the x factor, which in my opinion would pose more danger at the time. Handful of guns, loaded, irrational mental state. I don't like those intentions. What if he also knowingly didn't take his meds that day.

Gil is definitely going to be in more trouble with federal and felony charges. I just think it's to hard to say one is worse then the other. Especially when one of them has a mental illness. Both showed error in judgment.

I guess i am arguing from a legal stand point only. Even if I was on the jurry of either trial (if they go to trial...and the trial is in az, lol) you only can look at the facts of the case. I am very matter of fact about things like this.

Doing what i do for a living, i have to tell people all the time they are going to loose their hosue or they cant qualify to buy a home. I explain to them it doesnt make you a good or a bad person, I can only deal in the facts. My point is, in the end, it doesnt matter much what Delonte's state of mind or intent were unless the the prossecuter can prove it (which this is not an assault case or attempted robbery or murder),...so in the end intent doesnt matter, only what they both did and the juristiction they are both in. And because of those 2 factors, gilbert is in a heap more trouble. Jarvis could be done if it is proven he assulted Arenas with a loaded weapon though. Thats a completely different level crime on many levels. And cocking a loaded weapon and pointing at someone is 100% assult with a deadly weapon.

 

[Maximus]

Part of the problem with this discussion is that some are discussing it ONLY from a legal perspective, some are discussing it from Stern's perspective, while others from their own perspective.

The laws in different states or the District aren't going to change my opinion, ever. David Stern also doesn't have to rule based on the laws alone.


Where would I rather be?

1) In a locker room with Javaris pointing a loaded gun at me?

2) Driving next to Delonte who is on a tricycle with a bowie knife, a loaded glock, a loaded .357 AND A GUITAR CASE filled with a shotgun and 112 shells?

3) In a locker room with Arenas who has 4 unloaded guns on a chair with a sign that says pick one?


JUST MY OPINION, but it's pretty clear to me that the safest place to be is choice 3. I understand that if you are in one state or the other that the law changes, along with the seriousness in a judge's eyes. From my point of view what Delonte did is more serious than what Arenas did.....Javaris was the worst of all 3.

 

[Otsego Mar]

Part of the problem with this discussion is that some are discussing it ONLY from a legal perspective, some are discussing it from Stern's perspective, while others from their own perspective.

The laws in different states or the District aren't going to change my opinion, ever. David Stern also doesn't have to rule based on the laws alone.


Where would I rather be?

1) In a locker room with Javaris pointing a loaded gun at me?

2) Driving next to Delonte was who is on a tricycle with a bowie knife, a loaded glock, a loaded .357 AND A GUITAR CASE filled with a shotgun and 112 shells?

3) In a locker room with Arenas who has 4 unloaded guns on a chair with a sign that says pick one?


JUST MY OPINION, but it's pretty clear to me that the safest place to be is choice 3. I understand that if you are in one state or the other that the law changes, along with the seriousness in a judge's eyes. From my point of view what Delonte did is more serious than what Arenas did.

I get what your point is. What if it was me (or lets say someone you knew and trusted) instead of Delonte with those guns LEGALLY on his possession? For it to be legal he would have had to been in another state (at least for the handguns). It would be perfectly legal for me to do that assuming I was licensed.

In my opinion, it is the whole "horseplay" crap that makes what Arenas did a lot more dangerous than the Delonte situation. You just don't fuck around with guns, loaded or not. I think it's perfectly acceptable to carry weapons on your person for defense (which it sounds like that was the case with Delonte, although he wasn't entirely within the law). Crittenton threatened to shoot Arenas in his knee (joking or not) and Arenas brandished 3 guns (loaded or not) to Crittenton in an attempt to further the "horseplay", which resulted in Crittenton brandishing his own LOADED gun, in a facility where it is illegal to carry.

But again, I fully understand where you're coming from. You're taking into account Delonte's mental state....which I have a feeling you know more about than I do. And he shouldn't have been carrying in the first place with his "mental issues".

 

[GilbertForPres]

Adande on Arenas vs West.

Matt (Chicago, IL)


JA -- why does Arenas get suspended indefinately and West doesn't when he is clearly is less in the right frame of mind to be on the court. I mean geez three unloaded guns and a note seems less crazy then a loaded aresnal of weapons. Should Arenas have said he was bipolar?

J.A. Adande (3:04 PM)


The key difference was that Delonte West didn't bring guns onto NBA property...a major issue with Stern. And Delonte didn't make light of the situation on Twitter or in pre-game routines.

 

[Lee]

Part of the problem with this discussion is that some are discussing it ONLY from a legal perspective, some are discussing it from Stern's perspective, while others from their own perspective.

The laws in different states or the District aren't going to change my opinion, ever. David Stern also doesn't have to rule based on the laws alone.


Where would I rather be?

1) In a locker room with Javaris pointing a loaded gun at me?

2) Driving next to Delonte who is on a tricycle with a bowie knife, a loaded glock, a loaded .357 AND A GUITAR CASE filled with a shotgun and 112 shells?

3) In a locker room with Arenas who has 4 unloaded guns on a chair with a sign that says pick one?


JUST MY OPINION, but it's pretty clear to me that the safest place to be is choice 3. I understand that if you are in one state or the other that the law changes, along with the seriousness in a judge's eyes. From my point of view what Delonte did is more serious than what Arenas did.....Javaris was the worst of all 3.

I agree from a personal safety stand point.

From sterns standpoint though, west is best, as he didnt have a gun on nba property. Infact, Arenas might be the worst in Sterns eyes as he was joking about it after the fact and he couldnt figure out to shut up. To Stern its all about image, and bringing a gun to a game is bad for their image, although Jarvis actually pointed a loaded weapon. In Sterns eyes that might end up becoming a tie.

If arenas would have kept his mouth shut and been actually remorseful, he would have gotten away with a much lighter suspension. Jarvis's is coming though...seriously, pointing a loaded weapon in the locker room? How dumb is that?

 

[Thunder]

Yeah, Arenas is a dumbass...if he never would've made it into a joke, he'd be playing right now. Completely his fault. I like the guy, as a player and human being, but I won't deny that he truly pulled some idiotic moves.