The 2016 Tank Thread

[bushwick_bill]

Sushi: "too early to say if we'll keep #1 pick @Browns @cleveland19news"

 

[AZ_]

That's what they report, of course.

 

[Chris]

I find it amusing how the media thinks that everything they say in these pressers is gospel, lol.

Like, do Grossi and Rizzo really think Hue brought RG3 here because he thought he was gonna be our franchise QB? Or do they think he was throwing poop at the wall to buy time until that franchise guy could be found? You can't fucking say that to the media though, you disrespect the players that way and you'll lose the locker room. I know the media has to talk about something but why do I never see this acknowledged in these columns and articles?

 

[MD13]

I find it amusing how the media thinks that everything they say in these pressers is gospel, lol.

Like, do Grossi and Rizzo really think Hue brought RG3 here because he thought he was gonna be our franchise QB? Or do they think he was throwing poop at the wall to buy time until that franchise guy could be found? You can't fucking say that to the media though, you disrespect the players that way and you'll lose the locker room. I know the media has to talk about something but why do I never see this acknowledged in these columns and articles?

Seems like negativity drives page clicks, listens and views with the Browns. They'll probably frame it any way that lets them bitch about the team the most. If the team ever gets good, I don't know what Grossi will do with himself.

 

[Wulfgar1224]

Seems like negativity drives page clicks, listens and views with the Browns. They'll probably frame it any way that lets them bitch about the team the most. If the team ever gets good, I don't know what Grossi will do with himself.

I will be in the minority. But, I feel the media pulls a lot more punches than people in here are willing to acknowledge. Frankly, Haslam's ownership has been an abomination. That isn't even debatable. I didn't think it was possible for an owner to be anywhere near as bad as Lerner but ole Jimmy boy has done it.

The Browns are a laughing stock and their incompetence is unprecedented in the salary cap era. Not even the Bengals or the Lions were this bad for this long with so many bad regimes. You can't blame the Cleveland media for being skeptical or calling them out on it. As a media member for the Browns you could literally spend your entire life lambasting them justifiably given the ineptitude around here. I for one think they would love to have a decent team to cover. You really think they like watching this crap every week year after year? But, people like to shoot the messenger, so it is convenient to pile on them and accuse them of being unfairly negative.

As for this present regime, I think it is fair to hammer them. Hue Jackson was awful yesterday. I know everyone wanted the Browns to lose but his ineptitude was staggering. I think the media has been pretty soft on him all year to be honest. He should be eviscerated for what happened in overtime yesterday. The Browns had been running the ball down the Steelers throat. They had the ball first and goal at the 2 and decide to throw a ridiculous pass to Hawkins that lost 15 yards. I'm still simmering over his horrific time management at the end of the Jets game and the ludicrous timeout called before the nationally televised Ravens game even started. His handling of the QBs has been questionable at best. I could go on but the point is made. Yes, the Browns lack talent but that doesn't excuse some horrific coaching by Hue.

As for our brain trust running the show, their work leaves a lot to be desired IMO. I get that Mack wasn't going to stay here so I can't fault them there. Why wasn't Schwartz resigned? That bothered me. He was open to staying here and we wouldn't have suffered through some horrific performances by Pasztor if they had kept him

People will say you need to give the draft picks time. Fine. But, I'm not crazy about the early returns. Ogbah has shown signs. Coleman was hurt so it is tough to say about him but he disappeared a lot IMO. We shall see about him. But, Nassib is unimpressive at least to me, Ricardo Louis can't catch, (Coleman, drango don't seem like solid NFL lineman, kindred is an awful safety).....it is looking like a mediocre draft at best so far. They had 14 picks. I would like to have seen a lot more promise that what was out there. The Browns need to be better than that. I guess it is just a pet peeve of mine that the media takes shots because they are skeptical and not one hundred percent behind everything that this regime does. It is there job to blast them when they deserve it not to be some cheerleader who is afraid of hurting the player's feelings.

 

[Chris]

Ah, Sam Darnold. The dream has begun.

 

[spydy13]

I find it amusing how the media thinks that everything they say in these pressers is gospel, lol.

Like, do Grossi and Rizzo really think Hue brought RG3 here because he thought he was gonna be our franchise QB? Or do they think he was throwing poop at the wall to buy time until that franchise guy could be found? You can't fucking say that to the media though, you disrespect the players that way and you'll lose the locker room. I know the media has to talk about something but why do I never see this acknowledged in these columns and articles?

Because our local media is by and large dumb and can never read between the lines. They take everything at face value, or at least choose to report it as such.

Sashi has come out multiple times basically saying that they were tanking this season, but every week the idiot brigade wrote articles or talked on the radio about how unacceptable it was that they were this bad and they couldn't believe that it was happening.

They are either the dumbest fucks alive or choose to act this way because anger sells to the less informed fan (god forbid they try to inform them of what's really going on). Frankly, it's hard to listen to press conferences like today because the questions they force people to answer, all while acting like they're Woodward or Bernstein by the way, are cringe worthy.

 

[Smooth]

The Browns are a laughing stock and their incompetence is unprecedented in the salary cap era. Not even the Bengals or the Lions were this bad for this long with so many bad regimes. You can't blame the Cleveland media for being skeptical or calling them out on it. As a media member for the Browns you could literally spend your entire life lambasting them justifiably given the ineptitude around here. I for one think they would love to have a decent team to cover. You really think they like watching this crap every week year after year? But, people like to shoot the messenger, so it is convenient to pile on them and accuse them of being unfairly negative.

It's not even being negative, it's the fact it's the incompetence tied to it...

We're talking about this type of crap:
View: https://twitter.com/RyInCBus/status/816111665024483328


Now, Grossi is pounding the Browns for not taking Wentz... There's accountability for the regime but where's the accountability for the media?

Being critical is one thing; bringing personal bias and being combative is just as unprofessional... Reporters like Grossi have sour grapes for God knows what...

Bring good questions, go at the regime; they deserve to get hard questions until they get it right... But every article like Grossi's with his cynicism twist or being combative at a press conference or Hooley going on about the regime's "arrogance" is beyond me...

Ownership incompetence and previous regime incompetence doesn't allow for journalism incompetence...

As for our brain trust running the show, their work leaves a lot to be desired IMO. I get that Mack wasn't going to stay here so I can't fault them there. Why wasn't Schwartz resigned? That bothered me. He was open to staying here and we wouldn't have suffered through some horrific performances by Pasztor if they had kept him

A lot went on that off-season...

Paul was hired, then Hue a week later, then Berry around the scouting combine and during the whole free agency frenzy, Hue was deathly ill for an extended period of time and unable to take part in the regime's first steps...

The way the front office came together wasn't conducive to operating efficiently during the first few months, which is why the Schwartz free agent frenzy was mishandled and a lot of conflicting reports...

I think the regime has learned from that, as there's been a emphasis placed on keeping their own...

Give them a full off-season growing and working together to see what they can do... This was never going to be a one-year turnaround...

People will say you need to give the draft picks time. Fine. But, I'm not crazy about the early returns. Ogbah has shown signs. Coleman was hurt so it is tough to say about him but he disappeared a lot IMO. We shall see about him. But, Nassib is unimpressive at least to me, Ricardo Louis can't catch, (Coleman, drango don't seem like solid NFL lineman, kindred is an awful safety).....it is looking like a mediocre draft at best so far. They had 14 picks. I would like to have seen a lot more promise that what was out there. The Browns need to be better than that. I guess it is just a pet peeve of mine that the media takes shots because they are skeptical and not one hundred percent behind everything that this regime does. It is there job to blast them when they deserve it not to be some cheerleader who is afraid of hurting the player's feelings.

Danny Shelton is a perfect example of giving time to prospects... year one, looked bad... year two, played at a near Pro-Bowl level...

A lot goes into prospect success: situation, injuries, learning curve, other positions, what background they're coming from, etc., so that's why it's too early to judge... A year from now, you could be saying a completely different thing than what you're saying now... Why rush to judge? For what? To say you're right?

Coleman also was dealing with quarterback carousel and was coming out of a system that was pretty elementary... The talent is there, that's the key and the Browns have a great WR coach to get it out of him...

Nassib was on a roll until you conveniently left out his broken hand and having to play with a club for a good portion of the season... Think getting on a weight plan and nutrition plan this off-season will be huge to adding strength; that's going to make the difference...

How can you honestly say Coleman and Drango aren't solid offensive lineman? Like, what is that judged on? Coleman got a few hundred snaps --- you're writing someone off based on that? Coleman posted one of the highest offensive grades in an extended look against the Steelers and Drango graded out fairly well for being thrusted into the role unexpectedly... Coleman was still rehabbing his knee throughout training camp, didn't have a full one under his belt and this is still a kid a couple years removed from leukemia... Drango also went through a position switch, which doesn't seem like much, but we've seen how some lineman are unable to handle it (see Erving)... Even if they aren't necessarily top-end starters, what's wrong with having some solid backup lineman?

I think people were expecting a star studded class because the number of picks... The number of picks were made to establish a base of talent to build upon.. These guys in rounds 3-7 are expected to be backups, core special teams players and a starter here or there... If they hit on a guy, great... If not, the cupboard has been bare so they need to start establishing a base somewhere... Thus the amount of rookies playing throughout the year...

 

[MD13]

It's not even being negative, it's the fact it's the incompetence tied to it...

We're talking about this type of crap:
View: https://twitter.com/RyInCBus/status/816111665024483328


Now, Grossi is pounding the Browns for not taking Wentz... There's accountability for the regime but where's the accountability for the media?

Being critical is one thing; bringing personal bias and being combative is just as unprofessional... Reporters like Grossi have sour grapes for God knows what...

Bring good questions, go at the regime; they deserve to get hard questions until they get it right... But every article like Grossi's with his cynicism twist or being combative at a press conference or Hooley going on about the regime's "arrogance" is beyond me...

Ownership incompetence and previous regime incompetence doesn't allow for journalism incompetence...



A lot went on that off-season...

Paul was hired, then Hue a week later, then Berry around the scouting combine and during the whole free agency frenzy, Hue was deathly ill for an extended period of time and unable to take part in the regime's first steps...

The way the front office came together wasn't conducive to operating efficiently during the first few months, which is why the Schwartz free agent frenzy was mishandled and a lot of conflicting reports...

I think the regime has learned from that, as there's been a emphasis placed on keeping their own...

Give them a full off-season growing and working together to see what they can do... This was never going to be a one-year turnaround...



Danny Shelton is a perfect example of giving time to prospects... year one, looked bad... year two, played at a near Pro-Bowl level...

A lot goes into prospect success: situation, injuries, learning curve, other positions, what background they're coming from, etc., so that's why it's too early to judge... A year from now, you could be saying a completely different thing than what you're saying now... Why rush to judge? For what? To say you're right?

Coleman also was dealing with quarterback carousel and was coming out of a system that was pretty elementary... The talent is there, that's the key and the Browns have a great WR coach to get it out of him...

Nassib was on a roll until you conveniently left out his broken hand and having to play with a club for a good portion of the season... Think getting on a weight plan and nutrition plan this off-season will be huge to adding strength; that's going to make the difference...

How can you honestly say Coleman and Drango aren't solid offensive lineman? Like, what is that judged on? Coleman got a few hundred snaps --- you're writing someone off based on that? Coleman posted one of the highest offensive grades in an extended look against the Steelers and Drango graded out fairly well for being thrusted into the role unexpectedly... Coleman was still rehabbing his knee throughout training camp, didn't have a full one under his belt and this is still a kid a couple years removed from leukemia... Drango also went through a position switch, which doesn't seem like much, but we've seen how some lineman are unable to handle it (see Erving)... Even if they aren't necessarily top-end starters, what's wrong with having some solid backup lineman?

I think people were expecting a star studded class because the number of picks... The number of picks were made to establish a base of talent to build upon.. These guys in rounds 3-7 are expected to be backups, core special teams players and a starter here or there... If they hit on a guy, great... If not, the cupboard has been bare so they need to start establishing a base somewhere... Thus the amount of rookies playing throughout the year...

One thing to add on Coleman... I haven't watched All-22 or anything, but it seemed like Coleman would regularly beat his man clean off the line. We just also happened to have 3 QBs who never seemed to throw the ball with anticipation and almost never hit guys on quick passes on time. We knew he would be raw, but I'm encouraged for year 2.

 

[ajz20]

Hue was deathly ill during free agency? Like his life was in danger? How did I miss that?

 

[Ocelot]

Hue was deathly ill during free agency? Like his life was in damager? How did I miss that?

He was hospitalized for a few days with influenza A and put on bed rest for weeks. I don't know if it was expressly described as life threatening but I can't imagine that someone who's been placed on bed rest can fulfill all of their duties as head coach.

 

[Green Demon]

View: https://twitter.com/clevezirm/status/771002241398476800/photo/1


Yeah remembered seeing this in passing just before the season started

 

[Wulfgar1224]

It's not even being negative, it's the fact it's the incompetence tied to it...

We're talking about this type of crap:
View: https://twitter.com/RyInCBus/status/816111665024483328


Now, Grossi is pounding the Browns for not taking Wentz... There's accountability for the regime but where's the accountability for the media?

Being critical is one thing; bringing personal bias and being combative is just as unprofessional... Reporters like Grossi have sour grapes for God knows what...

Bring good questions, go at the regime; they deserve to get hard questions until they get it right... But every article like Grossi's with his cynicism twist or being combative at a press conference or Hooley going on about the regime's "arrogance" is beyond me...

Ownership incompetence and previous regime incompetence doesn't allow for journalism incompetence...

Well Grossi isn't paid to be a scout so I'm not sure how accountable he should be if he wasn't super high on Wentz before the draft. I could see that being annoying and perhaps hypocritical but that doesn't mean he can't call the regime out for the way they handled the wentz situation. I think it did show arrogance. Had the Browns said we just felt it was better to take the picks and look for a better fit for us that would've been fine. They could've shown a little class. But, no, Depodesta had to diss the kid and basically say that he sucked and wouldn't amount to crap. Reading other posts in here, I get it . People in here are hoping that Wentz will bust so the Browns won't have egg on their faces. But, they way Depodesta handled that was an embarrassment.
Now in terms of the merits of passing on Wentz, I personally like what I've seen of him and think he will be a pretty solid QB. He's smart.. has good size and arm strength and I've seen him make some really good throws that tell me he could be really good in this league. He had some rough games but if I were an Eagles fan, I'd be excited about having him as my Qb going forward. I can't say that as a Browns fan about RG3 and Kessler.

Nassib was on a roll until you conveniently left out his broken hand and had to play with a club for a good portion of the season... Think getting on a weight plan and nutrition plan this off-season will be huge to adding strength; that's going to make the difference...

It is too early to write him off of course. But, Nassib is a limited athlete with limited moves that had one good year in college. Maybe he'll develop a better arsenal of moves and he could certainly train and get stronger. But, the change of direction and explosiveness isn't going to ever be there. That will limit him.

How can you honestly say Coleman and Drango aren't solid offensive lineman?

Well, I was probably a bit harsh on Drango. You're right about the position switch and thinking back....Baylor runs a spread offense so there is an adjustment going from that to a pro style one....

As for Coleman, I think he is a better run blocker than a pass blocker....From what i've seen of him he looks a bit awkward in pass blocking and has a ways to go in that regard.

I think people were expecting a star studded class because the number of picks... The number of picks were made to establish a base of talent to build upon.. These guys in rounds 3-7 are expected to be backups, core special teams players and a starter here or there... If they hit on a guy, great... If not, the cupboard has been bare so they need to start establishing a base somewhere... Thus the amount of rookies playing throughout the year...

I might disagree some here. I wasn't expecting a star studded class. Rounds 5 and later, yes, those are usually special teamers and backups. But, the Browns had 7 picks in rounds 3 and 4 in this past draft. I don't necessarily think round 3 is a backup/take a flyer out round for players. I think you should be able to find starters with that volume of picks at that point of the draft.

I didn't really address Kessler before. But, his arm is so limited that I can't see him making it as a starter in Cleveland. It is a shame too because I've seen him show pretty good accuracy and touch on some of his passes. He might make it in a warm weather area or a domed stadium in certain offenses. But, in the howling winter of Cleveland, it will be tough for him. Arm strength isn't something that you can just work hard and get much better at. You either have arm talent or you don't.

Mercifully, I will close with this. Haslam really irked me when he said "that we have the right people in place". I mean what is that based upon. Couldn't he just left it at something like....'It was a rough season and we're building here...some BS like that". Did he really have to say that with all of the missteps I've gone into before? It makes you wonder if he even thinks rationally. They just had one of the worst seasons in NFL history. Hue made numerous mistakes that he hasn't been sufficiently called out for Imo. I get that he can't fire Hue or Sashi yet because of all of the previous turmoil. But as far as being canned goes, Hue has done a lot more to get canned after one season than say someone like Chud did. Heck, Chud's team was a juggernaut compared to this past one. I've already ranted about Sashi and Paul D so I won't get into that again. Bottom line is that Hue and company have a long way to go before I'm convinced that they are "the right people " for the job.

 

[Goodbyehorses]

This thread had been fun for a while. Turned cuntish rather quickly

 

[Ob1]

This thread had been fun for a while. Turned cuntish rather quickly

Real cuntish.

Like I said, it's time to close it down. We won the tank. We were superb, but the tank is over with. Let's move on to the FA thread, Draft prospect thread, etc.