The 2023-2024 Off-Season Thread

[buzzdog]

One thing I haven't seen anyone mention yet. Good outside shooting can be contagious. Seeing other guys draining shots can sometimes pick up more marginal shooters. Bad shooting can be contagious too. It feels like the Cavs have had that cloud over the team, whatever confidence they have in shooting is fragile, except for the D&D brothers. Having another 2, 3 or 4 players who can step on the court and fill it up can boost everyone's shooting.

 

[Cavatt]

One thing I haven't seen anyone mention yet. Good outside shooting can be contagious. Seeing other guys draining shots can sometimes pick up more marginal shooters. Bad shooting can be contagious too. It feels like the Cavs have had that cloud over the team, whatever confidence they have in shooting is fragile, except for the D&D brothers. Having another 2, 3 or 4 players who can step on the court and fill it up can boost everyone's shooting.

Yeah and willingness to shoot. Really felt like when the guards got tight, everyone got hesitant in the playoffs

 

[Ohioplayer00]

But you still need a JYD on defense occasionally. I will miss Neto for doing that when needed.

Neto was my favorite bench guy! He reminded me so much of Delly!

 

[CavsKermit]

When you seen some of the numbers getting thrown about this off season (Grant, Dillon Brooks, van Vleet, Bruce Brown etc.), Cavs work thus far gains particular praise. We probably slightly overpaid Strus, but every other deal is movable if it doesn’t pan out. We’re building a team. Only Lakers have done better IMO, building depth and avoiding radical overpay.

The developmental staff + internal player growth and injury recovery leave me optimistic we have somewhat rebuilt our asset mix after the devastation of the Mitchell trade. Still feel a more bruising big and a longer wing would have been ideal, but the price tag on wings is crazy.

We certainly feel deeper and not every bet will pan out, but our shooting has to be much improved. I’d then bet on our new personnel to make a defensive leap with this staff.

The reality is there are multiple free agency markets, not one. The Heat, Suns, and Lakers all managed to sign useful players well below what they could have gotten on the open market.

I'm not sold on the DLo and Rui deals for the Lakers though. Those could turn into undesirable contracts. Also, while Reaves could've forced the issue by signing an offer sheet, the Lakers had to surrender a year of team control to get that deal done. He can opt out after three years.

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

Close to 0% chance Isaac is not a regular in the rotation. He definitely will be ahead of Jerome. I mean, come on.

That game that Jerome had against the Cavs (see highlights earlier in this thread) is better than anything I've ever seen from Okoro.

Jerome was on the same team as Curry, Thompson, and Poole, who averaged 29, 22, and 20 points per game. Oh, and also Donte DiVincenzo, who just signed a four-year, $50 million contract with the Knicks.

Jerome was the fifth guard on that team, but when he got a chance to play he produced. I think he's going to have a much bigger role than Raul Neto. He shot 48.8% from the field and 38.9% on 3's.

Last year we had almost nothing at guard after Garland and Mitchell. LeVert had to play the 3 since Okoro was so bad, Cedi was inconsistent, and we had traded Markkanen. Jerome and Strus will be major upgrades over Neto and Rubio (who only played half the season and was a shadow of his former self).

I'd give Kobe an A for this offseason regardless of who gets picked up for the 14th and 15th spots.

 

[CavsKermit]

It's very possible that the impact of adding Strus and Jerome plus if Rubio returns to his previous level of play it will result in LESS playing time for Okoro.

I could see a guard rotation of Garland, Mitchell, Rubio, and Jerome with LeVert and Strus splitting 48 minutes at small forward. Okoro would be the odd man out. What do we need with a guy who doesn't score or rebound and whose lack of outside shooting allows the opponents to pack the paint?

I suspect that the addition of Niang allows the Cavs to rotate Okoro in when one of Allen/Mobley sit with one of Garland/Mitchell. That way you'll always have two plus defenders on the floor.

 

[Randolphkeys]

That game that Jerome had against the Cavs (see highlights earlier in this thread) is better than anything I've ever seen from Okoro.

Jerome was on the same team as Curry, Thompson, and Poole, who averaged 29, 22, and 20 points per game. Oh, and also Donte DiVincenzo, who just signed a four-year, $50 million contract with the Knicks.

Jerome was the fifth guard on that team, but when he got a chance to play he produced. I think he's going to have a much bigger role than Raul Neto. He shot 48.8% from the field and 38.9% on 3's.

Last year we had almost nothing at guard after Garland and Mitchell. LeVert had to play the 3 since Okoro was so bad, Cedi was inconsistent, and we had traded Markkanen. Jerome and Strus will be major upgrades over Neto and Rubio (who only played half the season and was a shadow of his former self).

I'd give Kobe an A for this offseason regardless of who gets picked up for the 14th and 15th spots.

Cavs had huge problems with roster construction last year. Rubio lost all confidence in his three point shot, and Neto has never been confident in his life with his three point shot. Neto had his moments when given some run, but Ty Jerome is more like a poor man's Jose Calderon: kills you with the shooting which allows his below average quickness to create some dribble drives. He's not a star and never will be, but he's not afraid to let a three fly in the big moment.

 

[Nphan]

No idea how you figured that being a deep playoff team. That team wouldn't even get a play-in spot in last year's Eastern conference.

I think a big 3 of Mitchell, Brown and ascended Mobley is a top 5 big 3 in the league. Strus and Niang spreads the floor while elite defenders like Brown and Mobley covers for their lack of defense.

 

[Nphan]

Evan Mobley as a full-time center is utterly stupid and will mark the beginning of the end of his time in Cleveland.

You guys keep sleeping on year 3 bulked up Mobley. Only centers who can bully him is Jokic and Embiid but who are they not bullying? I don't think they can stop him from scoring though. Year 3 Mobley is Garnett like in my eyes.

 

[Nphan]

So the Cavs trade their 23 year old allstar PG who is under contract for 5 more years, to the Celtics no less, for a guy on an expiring contract? Are the Cavs F.O. personnel tired of getting paid to work in the NBA? Is that why we do it?

Also, did we just cut Allen in this scenario?

They trade their 23 year old PG for a top 5 2-way SF. Brown is a much better player than Garland and would make up the big 3 of Mitchell, Brown and Mobley. Allen is backup center. Forgot to include him.

 

[adam81king]

Unless he learns to shoot 3s that’s his future

It's really not, and shouldn't be.

You guys keep sleeping on year 3 bulked up Mobley. Only centers who can bully him is Jokic and Embiid but who are they not bullying? I don't think they can stop him from scoring though. Year 3 Mobley is Garnett like in my eyes.

Funny you mention Garnett. He played 20 seasons in the NBA. Only 4 of those seasons (2000-01 52%; 2011-12 87%; 2012-13 95%; 2013-14 70%) did he spent more than 38% of his time on the court as a center. Evan Mobley has a VAST majority of his skillset, not to mention his body, wasted as a C. On defense, his ability to defend on the perimeter, and as a help defender, is gone as a C. On offense, his movement is wasted.

Also, Mitchell Robinson, Hartenstein, Zubac, Brook Lopez, etc all have bullied Mobley. Not to mention every drive to the rim would put him in actions. Putting him there, especially with the matadors on the perimeter, is like strapping Goldberg to the goal and having the team shoot pucks at him. No thanks.

 

[CavsKermit]

They trade their 23 year old PG for a top 5 2-way SF. Brown is a much better player than Garland and would make up the big 3 of Mitchell, Brown and Mobley. Allen is backup center. Forgot to include him.

Brown is a very good player (a little undersized at SF). I'd be reluctant to trade Mitchell for him on an expiring contract. He has zero incentive to sign an extension or make a commitment to the team trading for him while he's still supermax eligible.

More importantly, we traded a half a decade's worth of first round picks for Mitchell. Garland and Mobley aren't going anywhere as a result as they're the insurance policy that prevents the Jazz from building a super team with our picks. Also, having Mitchell and/or Brown run an offense full time has been tried. You need an actual PG.

 

[BigZ94]

It's really not, and shouldn't be.


Funny you mention Garnett. He played 20 seasons in the NBA. Only 4 of those seasons (2000-01 52%; 2011-12 87%; 2012-13 95%; 2013-14 70%) did he spent more than 38% of his time on the court as a center. Evan Mobley has a VAST majority of his skillset, not to mention his body, wasted as a C. On defense, his ability to defend on the perimeter, and as a help defender, is gone as a C. On offense, his movement is wasted.

Also, Mitchell Robinson, Hartenstein, Zubac, Brook Lopez, etc all have bullied Mobley. Not to mention every drive to the rim would put him in actions. Putting him there, especially with the matadors on the perimeter, is like strapping Goldberg to the goal and having the team shoot pucks at him. No thanks.

That’s all true however with the way the NBA has evolved you arnt winning championships with a PF that can’t shoot, what happens is what happened to us against the Knicks where you struggled to score over 95 points in playoffs game. I think comparing current bigs with bigs who played 10/20 years isn’t viable anymore as the position has changed so much.

The only solution is if we get a center that can shoot to pair with him.

 

[CavsKermit]

Donte is a nice complimentary piece. Am hopeful/thinking the Cavs got something similar in Jerome at a fraction of the cost.

It's not bad value, but they just gave Toppins to the Pacers (two seconds), and the depth of the frontcourt was the strength of that team. It will be interesting to see if they can extend Hartenstein as he can start for at least a dozen teams in the NBA. If he leaves after this season, they're really not scary at all.

 

[Randolphkeys]

It's not bad value, but they just gave Toppins to the Pacers (two seconds), and the depth of the frontcourt was the strength of that team. It will be interesting to see if they can extend Hartenstein as he can start for at least a dozen teams in the NBA. If he leaves after this season, they're really not scary at all.

Thibs builds his team around tough nosed front courts. Toppin just doesn't fit the bill. I bet they try to pey somebody like Tobias Harris loose so that his entire front court rotation is an advantage on both ends of the court.