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The New York Knicks Trash Fire Thread!

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I'm so sick of hearing about the Knicks. Like, go away already.
 
To be fair, not to insult the Knicks fan that contribute here, they are a pretty overrated franchise. They've mostly been trash. I say this in regards to what they are propped up to be.

It seems like all Knicks fan want to put them in the upper echelon of NBA franchises, when in all reality there are about 3-4 teams ahead of them in prestige. The Knicks have been around for 70 years and only won 2 titles. I understand that Boston & LA have combined to win half of those, but NY should have 5 or more given the market they have had to offer. Dont say it wasn't like that back in the 40s & 50s, because it was...the Yankees used that leverage. Why couldnt the Knicks?

There all time win & playoff percentages are below .500 & they have been notorious for overspending on over the hill players. If it wasn't for the market, the cities basketball history (rucker, Knicks, Globetrotters, etc) & the Garden, NY Knick basketball wouldn't have the allure it does today.
 
Someone explain why Dolan wont try to mend things with Oakley.

Who is the bigger jerk here?

Dolan seems like a complete asshole, but Oakley does too. Punching 3 security guards like they had anything to do with this stupidity?
 
Lee said:
Someone explain why Dolan wont try to mend things with Oakley.

Who is the bigger jerk here?

Dolan seems like a complete asshole, but Oakley does too. Punching 3 security guards like they had anything to do with this stupidity?
Click to expand...

Oakley, IMO.

Dolan doesn't owe him anything. If Oakley wanted a kind and friendly relationship, he probably shouldn't have besmirched the organization, and subsequently Dolan, for years.

Is Dolan a jerk? I dunno, I'm sure there's probably plenty of ammo for that argument aside from this, but what we just saw captured on camera was assault. I would consider dubious, at best, any argument supportive of Oakley on this one.

Do the Knicks potentially lose out on FA's? Maybe. Should they sell their soul and cater to hostile entitled ex-players to appease potential FA signings? I'd say no.
 
Simon said:
Not according to Woj. With the recent stunts Phil is pulling, Woj said it is driving Melo to stay with the Knicks.
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Great. So let me get this straight. Phil Jackson publicly calls out Melo's willingness to win which does the following: 1) hurts the value of the guy he wants to trade; 2) ruins team morale if he stays; 3) makes Melo want to stay; and 4) indicates to any free agent out there that the team president will call you out publicly to save face.

Oh and that was done the day before the owner of the team has security guards surround, kick out, and arrest one of the most beloved Knicks. And then posted that Oak should "get help." Should Oak have laid a hand on those guards? No. But why were the guards there in the first place? Multiple witnesses have stated that Oak did nothing at all but show up at the arena. Dolan has long been mad that Oakley has been critical of him and this isn't the first time he's had security watching Oak at the Garden. He's also deliberately ignored Oak's Knicks legacy while constantly honoring lesser players with brief Knicks careers. And if Oak said something to Dolan, that in and of itself doesn't warrant eleven security guards surrounding Oak, essentially baiting him to react.

Lowest point in recent franchise history and that's saying something.
 
bigfoot5415 said:
To be fair, not to insult the Knicks fan that contribute here, they are a pretty overrated franchise. They've mostly been trash. I say this in regards to what they are propped up to be.

It seems like all Knicks fan want to put them in the upper echelon of NBA franchises, when in all reality there are about 3-4 teams ahead of them in prestige. The Knicks have been around for 70 years and only won 2 titles. I understand that Boston & LA have combined to win half of those, but NY should have 5 or more given the market they have had to offer. Dont say it wasn't like that back in the 40s & 50s, because it was...the Yankees used that leverage. Why couldnt the Knicks?

There all time win & playoff percentages are below .500 & they have been notorious for overspending on over the hill players. If it wasn't for the market, the cities basketball history (rucker, Knicks, Globetrotters, etc) & the Garden, NY Knick basketball wouldn't have the allure it does today.
Click to expand...

I agree that maybe the Knicks legacy is a little overrated. There are at least four franchises with more "prestige" than the Knicks: Lakers, Celtics, Bulls, and Spurs. You could throw in the Sixers too for the great players they've had, and even the Heat and Pistons for the fact that they won more chips. But that still doesn't change the fact that the Knicks are a noteworthy franchise with lots of memorable players and coaches, including at least ten hall of famers off the top of my head.

Some posters asked why people talk about the Knicks. It's really simple. You have a franchise with a rich history in a city that absolutely loves basketball...but the franchise just totally sucks and has for 17 years. The Knicks have all the natural advantages of a team primed to succeed: awesome arena, rich owner willing to spend, biggest media market in the world, and devoted fans that show up no matter how bad the team is. And yet inexplicably we continue to make the worst decisons as a franchise ranging from who we hire to make basketball decisions to who we acquire as players.

It's compelling to follow in the same way a horror movie is: sure the main character seems to have it all but you are just waiting for the other shoe to drop and for the monster (aka Dolan) to show up and ruin the main character's life.
 
@ACisKING

Curious, you're clearly far more informed on the Knicks organization than I. What particularly did you disagree with (I have no qualms w/ the disagree, don't take it like that)?

Did you disagree with:

* The premise that if he wanted an amicable relationship, he should have acted more amicably?
* That what was filmed was Oakley performing assault
* That the Knicks shouldn't cater to forces speaking negatively about the organization, especially out of fear of FA reprisal?

Those were the 3 stances I took. All of the above is fine, just genuinely curious. Thanks!
 
ACisKING said:
I agree that maybe the Knicks legacy is a little overrated. There are at least four franchises with more "prestige" than the Knicks: Lakers, Celtics, Bulls, and Spurs. You could throw in the Sixers too for the great players they've had, and even the Heat and Pistons for the fact that they won more chips. But that still doesn't change the fact that the Knicks are a noteworthy franchise with lots of memorable players and coaches, including at least ten hall of famers off the top of my head.

Some posters asked why people talk about the Knicks. It's really simple. You have a franchise with a rich history in a city that absolutely loves basketball...but the franchise just totally sucks and has for 17 years. The Knicks have all the natural advantages of a team primed to succeed: awesome arena, rich owner willing to spend, biggest media market in the world, and devoted fans that show up no matter how bad the team is. And yet inexplicably we continue to make the worst decisons as a franchise ranging from who we hire to make basketball decisions to who we acquire as players.

It's compelling to follow in the same way a horror movie is: sure the main character seems to have it all but you are just waiting for the other shoe to drop and for the monster (aka Dolan) to show up and ruin the main character's life.
Click to expand...

I’m sure someone has made this comparison to you before but there are a hell of a lot of similarities between the Knicks and Cleveland Browns. They were a once proud and storied franchise and one of the few innovative teams in the sport early on, but ever since the move to Baltimore in ‘95 it’s been a complete clusterfuck of mismanagement and poor decisions ever since, all in spite of a rich billionaire owner and devoted fans.

Edit: Even the Mike Holmgren experiment was eerily similar to what you guys are doing with Phil :chuckle:
 
Wrathe said:
@ACisKING

Curious, you're clearly far more informed on the Knicks organization than I. What particularly did you disagree with (I have no qualms w/ the disagree, don't take it like that)?

Did you disagree with:

* The premise that if he wanted an amicable relationship, he should have acted more amicably?
* That what was filmed was Oakley performing assault
* That the Knicks shouldn't cater to forces speaking negatively about the organization, especially out of fear of FA reprisal?

Those were the 3 stances I took. All of the above is fine, just genuinely curious. Thanks!
Click to expand...

You make reasonable points...I just disagree that Oakley is in the wrong here. I certainly agree that Oak committed assault. But context is important too. Surrounding Oak with eleven security guards preemptively is essentially putting him in an unconforfable position where such a reaction is to be expected. This isn't the first time Dolan has had security surround Oak at the Garden.

I also don't see why it's wrong for an ex-player to be critical of a horribly run franchise. Magic was super critical of Jim Buss and now Jeanie is actually bringing him into the organization. Dolan on the other hand has excluded Oak from all the 75th Anniversary Knicks celebrations while honoring lesser players who had unremarkable Knicks tenures. Dolan has all but made it uncomforable for Oakley to watch games at the arena. Dolan has thin skin and an absurd ego.

I will admit that I am biased though. I love Charles Oakley and despise Dolan.
 
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