The Official Game of Thrones [A Song of Ice and Fire] Thread (includes spoilers)

[Rich]

Hmmm. Can he warg into inanimate objects?

It was odd though.

As an expert in all things Stannis let me ask you your opinion: is he going to lose the battle of Winterfell in the books?

 

[Sebastian]

As an expert in all things Stannis let me ask you your opinion: is he going to lose the battle of Winterfell in the books?

There seems to be a good chance he'll win the Battle on the Ice.

That said, however it unfolds it will be very different than the show. The Pink Letter is either a lie, Stannis lost the battle, or he won but is going to try to infiltrate Winterfell by dressing as returning Bolton and Manderly troops.

The way the show happened it is probably clear he will lose a major battle. Something has to happen that leads Melisandre to burn Shireen.

But, GRRM did say that he changed his mind about a major character arc in TWOW that made it onto the show but will be completely different now. Could be Stannis.

 

[Rich]

There seems to be a good chance he'll win the Battle on the Ice.

That said, however it unfolds it will be very different than the show. The Pink Letter is either a lie, Stannis lost the battle, or he won but is going to try to infiltrate Winterfell by dressing as returning Bolton and Manderly troops.

The way the show happened it is probably clear he will lose a major battle. Something has to happen that leads Melisandre to burn Shireen.

But, GRRM did say that he changed his mind about a major character arc in TWOW that made it onto the show but will be completely different now. Could be Stannis.

Here's my issue: DnD did not come up with "Battle of the Bastards" on their own. That's totally, 100% a George Martin idea. Right?

So then if Stannis doesnt lose...how do we get Ramsay versus Jon?

 

[Sebastian]

Here's my issue: DnD did not come up with "Battle of the Bastards" on their own. That's totally, 100% a George Martin idea. Right?

So then if Stannis doesnt lose...how do we get Ramsay versus Jon?

I don't know. The show is way off the books and we see bits and pieces of plots combined to form the new plot. The rising of the North plot was a Stannis one, Rickon and Last Hearth a Davos one, Jon and the Wildlings his and all three were combined to lead to the Battle of Bastards.

In the end though, unless GRRM did changed his mind, I don't see how Jon becomes King in the North unless Stannis dies.

Whatever the outcome it will be a lot more interesting than the "20 good men" and "Stannis blindly walks into a trap like a second lieutenant" ending the show had.

 

[MD13]

Here's my issue: DnD did not come up with "Battle of the Bastards" on their own. That's totally, 100% a George Martin idea. Right?

So then if Stannis doesnt lose...how do we get Ramsay versus Jon?

Agreed, Battle of the Bastards feels like a 100% GRRM idea in both concept and plot execution. I wonder how many of the highly questionable to flat out stupid things in this season are his ideas: Euron capturing/destroying the fleet, basically anything Tyrion has suggested this season, Sam's plot,this "capture a wight" idea that never made the least bit of sense, and the Littlefinger/Arya/Sansa trilogy of escalating stupidity.

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[caf]

Everyone:Sansa should be the queen of winterfell.
Arya:WHAT ABOUT HER EMAILS?!?!

Got a kick out of this Reddit comment

 

[Rich]

I don't know. The show is way off the books and we see bits and pieces of plots combined to form the new plot. The rising of the North plot was a Stannis one, Rickon and Last Hearth a Davos one, Jon and the Wildlings his and all three were combined to lead to the Battle of Bastards.

In the end though, unless GRRM did changed his mind, I don't see how Jon becomes King in the North unless Stannis dies.

Whatever the outcome it will be a lot more interesting than the "20 good men" and "Stannis blindly walks into a trap like a second lieutenant" ending the show had.

All the battle names have come from George. I just find it hard to fathom Battle of the Bastards isn't his baby.

My theory: Stannis loses due to some unforeseen betrayal. Mance, perhaps. Either way, very battle of the Blackwater-esque where he loses a battle he was supposed to win.

Which is ultimately Stannis character arc. 2nd best, runner-up who is forever doomed to that fate. Hes never getting over the hump.

So he loses, but doesn't die. Gets back to the wall, and that's where Melisandre convinces him to sacrifice Shireen, hell, maybe in a death pays for life resurrection of Jon moment.

I used to think Stannis would win, but once that episode last year was named what it was named....there's just no way that isn't a George creation. And its hard to envision a scenario where Ramsay loses and we still get that battle.

And thiking on it more....Stannis just isn't meant to win.

 

[Rich]

Agreed, Battle of the Bastards feels like a 100% GRRM idea in both concept and plot execution. I wonder how many of the highly questionable to flat out stupid things in this season are his ideas: Euron capturing/destroying the fleet, basically anything Tyrion has suggested this season, Sam's plot,this "capture a wight" idea that never made the least bit of sense, and the Littlefinger/Arya/Sansa trilogy of escalating stupidity.

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I gotta say I don't think all of those choices are questionable. Euron being the baddest man on the ocean seems ok to me.

As far as Tyrion not wanting to burn cities, not everyone has the heart for war. I don't expect my characters to always make the most rational decisions because thats not human. None of us do that. Tyrion is letting his emotions get in the way of doing the best thing to end the war quickly. That's normal.

As for Sam...well, we know Sam is in for a wild ride in Old town.

When last we saw Sam he was talking to a Sand Snake that he didn't know the identity of, who was introducing him to Jaqen in disguise that neither knew the identity of. So Sam is headed to weird places in the book.

Old Town is what I most want to read about in book 6.

 

[MD13]

I gotta say I don't think all of those choices are questionable. Euron being the baddest man on the ocean seems ok to me.

As far as Tyrion not wanting to burn cities, not everyone has the heart for war. I don't expect my characters to always make the most rational decisions because thats not human. None of us do that. Tyrion is letting his emotions get in the way of doing the best thing to end the war quickly. That's normal.

As for Sam...well, we know Sam is in for a wild ride in Old town.

When last we saw Sam he was talking to a Sand Snake that he didn't know the identity of, who was introducing him to Jaqen in disguise that neither knew the identity of. So Sam is headed to weird places in the book.

Old Town is what I most want to read about in book 6.

I can see the general sentiment behind Tyrion's ark this season, but they're butchering the delivery. His role in trying to convince everyone about the wight plot is just mind boggling, family ties aside he's way too smart to blindly go along with that.

And just watch, I'm willing to bet that one of the books Sam grabbed has some sort of deus ex machina solution later on down the line.

It's just disappointing because it's happened so many times this season that it just ends up being lazy/bad writing.

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[Sebastian]

All the battle names have come from George. I just find it hard to fathom Battle of the Bastards isn't his baby.

My theory: Stannis loses due to some unforeseen betrayal. Mance, perhaps. Either way, very battle of the Blackwater-esque where he loses a battle he was supposed to win.

Which is ultimately Stannis character arc. 2nd best, runner-up who is forever doomed to that fate. Hes never getting over the hump.

So he loses, but doesn't die. Gets back to the wall, and that's where Melisandre convinces him to sacrifice Shireen, hell, maybe in a death pays for life resurrection of Jon moment.

I used to think Stannis would win, but once that episode last year was named what it was named....there's just no way that isn't a George creation. And its hard to envision a scenario where Ramsay loses and we still get that battle.

And thiking on it more....Stannis just isn't meant to win.

You are right, he isn't meant to sit on the Iron Throne.

His inflexibility, his general unlike-ability, leads to his defeat despite the fact that he wants the crown for the right reasons. He is a cautionary tale, particularly for Jon. You can have the best intentions in the world, be a great battle commander, and be brave, but leadership is about people as much as it is about laws and rights.

The Stark children are products of the mentorship they received in the time they were apart. Sansa was schooled by Cersei and Littlefinger. Arya, the Faceless Men. Bran, Three-Eyed Raven. Jon, Mormont and Stannis. One can argue the same for Dany with Ser Jorah, Ser Barristan and Tyrion. Going into the end game how all of them reconcile those points of view will be important.

 

[Rich]

I can see the general sentiment behind Tyrion's ark this season, but they're butchering the delivery. His role in trying to convince everyone about the wight plot is just mind boggling, family ties aside he's way too smart to blindly go along with that.

And just watch, I'm willing to bet that one of the books Sam grabbed has some sort of deus ex machina solution later on down the line.

It's just disappointing because it's happened so many times this season that it just ends up being lazy/bad writing.

Sent from my XT1635-02 using Tapatalk

Well there's no doubt what Sam grabbed has the answer to all the riddles. But Deus Ex Machinas aren't new to the story. And George has used them in both directions. Found it every bit as annoying when Stannis lost the battle he should have won because the Tyrell army decided to ally with the Lannisters after they had JUST allied with Renly, claiming Joffrey to be a Bastards born of incest. And they arrived just in the nick of time.

But it saved the Lannisters rule.

But let me ask you this. What should they do about the White Walker threat? If they all ride North, Cersei reconquers, right?

But the point is they also just can't ignore it. That leads to absolute ruin. So what plan would you have advised?

Ive got complaints about this season. Teleportation (which was taken to a new level this last episode), just ignoring major characters to progress the story (what's the point of Euron dominating the ocean if the enemy can just sail to and from Dragonstone as they please?).

But I personally didnt have a problem with the plan to capture a Wight. Thought it made decent sense. Obviously didn't work out terribly well.

But I've seen the complaints about it so I'm wondering what you think they should have done instead?

On a side note, I find it interesting how people more willfully except the bad guys being able to get out of seemingly impossible to win situations by same random turn of events but not the good guys.

Its fan service if you provide the good guys with a deus ex machina, but good writing when you flip it around on them.

But honestly, if it weren't for those totally improbably twists that bend reality, most fictional stories heavy on action would either be dull or short.

 

[Sebastian]

Well there's no doubt what Sam grabbed has the answer to all the riddles. But Deus Ex Machinas aren't new to the story. And George has used them in both directions. Found it every bit as annoying when Stannis lost the battle he should have won because the Tyrell army decided to ally with the Lannisters after they had JUST allied with Renly, claiming Joffrey to be a Bastards born of incest. And they arrived just in the nick of time.

But it saved the Lannisters rule.

But let me ask you this. What should they do about the White Walker threat? If they all ride North, Cersei reconquers, right?

But the point is they also just can't ignore it. That leads to absolute ruin. So what plan would you have advised?

Ive got complaints about this season. Teleportation (which was taken to a new level this last episode), just ignoring major characters to progress the story (what's the point of Euron dominating the ocean if the enemy can just sail to and from Dragonstone as they please?).

But I personally didnt have a problem with the plan to capture a Wight. Thought it made decent sense. Obviously didn't work out terribly well.

But I've seen the complaints about it so I'm wondering what you think they should have done instead?

On a side note, I find it interesting how people more willfully except the bad guys being able to get out of seemingly impossible to win situations by same random turn of events but not the good guys.

Its fan service if you provide the good guys with a deus ex machina, but good writing when you flip it around on them.

But honestly, if it weren't for those totally improbably twists that bend reality, most fictional stories heavy on action would either be dull or short.

The Tyrells are the real villains of the entire saga. Without their manipulation of Renly, and then their aid to the Lannisters, the war would have ended quickly.

 

[Chris]

I'm glad people are seeing this Arya plot line for its stupidity. Maybe it gets redeemed next week? Doubtful.

 

[Urban]

Those 100 yard, heavy duty metal chains the walkers have been carrying around for years were finally put to good use.

Question for book readers as I am only on Book 2: is the "kill the one who turned them, they all die" coming from show writers or was this in the books?

 

[B Mac]

Those 100 yard, heavy duty metal chains the walkers have been carrying around for years were finally put to good use.

Question for book readers as I am only on Book 2: is the "kill the one who turned them, they all die" coming from show writers or was this in the books?

We haven't got to much walker story line in the books yet. It's been a while for me, but I sure don't remember anything close to that.