The Transgender Issue

[Man Called X]

You say this but it's not true in the real world.

The gay movement was criticized for YEARS for being too in your face and forceful. But it's worked. The Civil Rights movement was similar. Was the Civil War organic change?

You don't make change by compromising from the get-go and staying quiet.

EDIT: It takes time to change someone's mind, but you can't go person to person easing your way toward acceptance. You move forward and let those people catch up when they're ready.

When you become a starfish and produce asexually, I'll start accepting non-binary as official terminology. Until then, it's making mental health patients feel better about themselves.

You can choose to be a man, you can choose to be a woman. You can choose to be asexual, you can choose whatever.

Being a masculine woman that identifies as a sexless mannequin doesn't qualify for special treatment. You're a freak, embrace it. Fly your freak flag proudly. Just don't expect the rest of the world to care.

*And if you're into chicks with dicks Akron, it's okay. So are Deezy and Jigo.


I think this is what I keep getting out of the trans argument.

"Labels are bad, unless they are the labels we give ourselves. And then it's okay. But NO LABELS!"

 

[Man Called X]

Can I offer my official march phrase like "We're here, we're queer, get used to it"

"We're here. We don't know what we are, and you're not supposed to know either. But we're here!"

 

[David.]

You say this but it's not true in the real world.

which part is not true in the real world?

The gay movement was criticized for YEARS for being too in your face and forceful.

what was the gay movement? gay marriage?

But it's worked. The Civil Rights movement was similar. Was the Civil War organic change?

the civil rights movement was much more Dr. Kings victory than it was Malcolm Xs. Think of how they differ. Apply that to todays movements. King was respected first and worked the system. He didnt force anything. (gotta love republican MLK who wanted a COLORBLIND AMERICA)

You don't make change by compromising from the get-go and staying quiet.

you have 1. Tyranny and 3. Slavery. in between is negotiation. Unless you want tyranny or slavery, you want compromise.
Which do you prescribe?

EDIT: It takes time to change someone's mind, but you can't go person to person easing your way toward acceptance. You move forward and let those people catch up when they're ready.

Which came first, widespread acceptance of gay people or gay marriage?

Do you think legally recognizing gay marriage made people more accepting of gay people? or do you think its more likely that gay marriage didnt make people accept gays?

do you see why these are not the same issue?

and thats just one reason. I dont think im doing anyone any servce by repeating previously stated points of contention, but quickly,

1. denial of biology in lieu of identity.
2. womens sports.
3. prison.
4. scholarships.
5. small business loans.
6. privacy, safety, and comfort of 99.7% of the country being valued less than the .3% youre fighting for, whose identity is based on rejecting reality.
7. normalizing rejecting reality.
8. rejecting that your brain rejecting reality is a mental illness.
9 placating to mental illness and forcing 99.7% of the country to participate in fantasy.
10 homosexuality is not a delusion.
11. gay marriage doesnt create victims
12. gay marriage doesnt require repudiation of science
13. gay marriage doesnt require reconstructing an entire society predicated on distinguishing males from females biologically, and for just reasons.



figure out what you personally are fighting for; Theres back and forth between 1. trans rights and 2. acceptance and 3. science and the conversations are muddy. Acceptance is the most tennable position, and its not done through force. its organic.

 

[David.]

I don't think the arguments are valid, they are reasonable-sounding but in the end it's still discrimination.

is not hiring a convicted pedophile as a preschool teacher discrimination? We need to place less weight on these words and more on reasonability.

I'm not giving priority to trans people

well in the same breath you say this....

Other people being uncomfortable doesn't bother me if the trans person isn't actually doing anything wrong.

I'm not giving priority to trans people

that is by definition giving priority to trans people and their comfortability.

I'm asking for equality.

youre not. youre prioritizing trans people over a vast majority of others comfortability. and we all equally are expected to go to the bathroom that matches our biological sex.

Oh hell you know what I'm even fine giving them priority in the feelings department. Because we fucking should.

why? that actually is as close to racism as we've gotten on this board in awhile. you seem to favor certain races and genders etc more than others, and respect their feelings more than others. and give certain races and sexes priority, and different rules and terms and rights and privileges.

 

[-Akronite-]

which part is not true in the real world?

As in that's not how things actually get done as I stated.

what was the gay movement? gay marriage?

Well, the LGBT movement is many things. For gays specifically, marriage equality was a marquee issue for many reasons including it being a relatable one with legal repercussions and the symbolism of equal love.

the civil rights movement was much more Dr. Kings victory than it was Malcolm Xs. Think of how they differ. Apply that to todays movements. King was respected first and worked the system. He didnt force anything. (gotta love republican MLK who wanted a COLORBLIND AMERICA)

And MLK went to jail and was shot for his cause. It's not like he didn't ruffle feathers and just let change happen organically.

you have 1. Tyranny and 3. Slavery. in between is negotiation. Unless you want tyranny or slavery, you want compromise.
Which do you prescribe?

Don't know what you're saying here.

Which came first, widespread acceptance of gay people or gay marriage?

Do you think legally recognizing gay marriage made people more accepting of gay people? or do you think its more likely that gay marriage didnt make people accept gays?

do you see why these are not the same issue?

Acceptance led to marriage equality. Now what led to acceptance? Did gay people sit quietly in their West Village apartments until everybody was cool with them? Or were they active and loud and forceful?

and thats just one reason. I dont think im doing anyone any servce by repeating previously stated points of contention, but quickly,

1. denial of biology in lieu of identity. That's a complex discussion.
2. womens sports. As I've stated I am not completely decided on this either.
3. prison. Just because something is nuanced doesn't mean we don't change things.
4. scholarships. ''
5. small business loans. ''
6. privacy, safety, and comfort of 99.7% of the country being valued less than the .3% youre fighting for, whose identity is based on rejecting reality. How are those things being affected? If a trans man walks into a bathroom it doesn't affect me one bit. Does it affect you? Why?
7. normalizing rejecting reality. Again, you want to pretend that this is about protecting the comfort of the majority or something but it really comes down to you not respecting or acknowledging the trans community.
8. rejecting that your brain rejecting reality is a mental illness. ''
9 placating to mental illness and forcing 99.7% of the country to participate in fantasy. ''
10 homosexuality is not a delusion. Even though this same argument was used against gay people like 5 years ago...
11. gay marriage doesnt create victims Neither does this. You're creating victims by continuing to persecute trans people.
12. gay marriage doesnt require repudiation of science Science argument was the same too...
13. gay marriage doesnt require reconstructing an entire society predicated on distinguishing males from females biologically, and for just reasons. Marriage is the foundation of society and we can't let these people who have deluded themselves into thinking they're gay re-define marriage.

figure out what you personally are fighting for; Theres back and forth between 1. trans rights and 2. acceptance and 3. science and the conversations are muddy. Acceptance is the most tennable position, and its not done through force. its organic.

Except it's not. Again, from civil rights to gay rights, THEY WEREN'T QUIET. Are trans people being any more forceful than blacks in the 60s?

is not hiring a convicted pedophile as a preschool teacher discrimination? We need to place less weight on these words and more on reasonability.

No, that's an actual safety concern. What's unsafe about letting a law-abiding trans person use the bathroom of their identity?

well in the same breath you say this....

that is by definition giving priority to trans people and their comfortability.

youre not. youre prioritizing trans people over a vast majority of others comfortability. and we all equally are expected to go to the bathroom that matches our biological sex.

That's assuming that everyone that isn't trans isn't comfortable with trans people. It's something that takes time, exposure, activism, or force if you want to refer to it that way, but more and more people will get okay with this and this will become less of a problem. Meanwhile, we don't need to police the behavior of law-abiding citizens trying to take a shit in a gender appropriate bathroom.

why? that actually is as close to racism as we've gotten on this board in awhile. you seem to favor certain races and genders etc more than others, and respect their feelings more than others. and give certain races and sexes priority, and different rules and terms and rights and privileges.

You're hilarious.

PS: You're MLK comment is BS.

 

[pr26]

I remember when homosexuals were thought to suffer from a mental illness, and that accepting them was looked at as enabling a delusion. Do we want homosexual men in our bathrooms with our children? What if they get molested? Plus the slippery slope argument of gay marriage. If we allow gay people to get married, it changes the definition of OUR marriage! If we let gay people marry, won't people start marrying animals or children!?!?

You guys can keep talking about your slippery slope towards a genderless soceity where you lose your job and get thrown in prison for not referring to yourself as a "cis male". Me? I'll sleep tight tonight not worrying about the trans boogeyman under my bed.

 

[Sebastian]

I remember when homosexuals were thought to suffer from a mental illness, and that accepting them was looked at as enabling a delusion. Do we want homosexual men in our bathrooms with our children? What if they get molested? Plus the slippery slope argument of gay marriage. If we allow gay people to get married, it changes the definition of OUR marriage! If we let gay people marry, won't people start marrying animals or children!?!?

You guys can keep talking about your slippery slope towards a genderless soceity where you lose your job and get thrown in prison for not referring to yourself as a "cis male". Me? I'll sleep tight tonight not worrying about the trans boogeyman under my bed.

The Dude abides.

 

[Man Called X]

I remember when homosexuals were thought to suffer from a mental illness, and that accepting them was looked at as enabling a delusion. Do we want homosexual men in our bathrooms with our children? What if they get molested? Plus the slippery slope argument of gay marriage. If we allow gay people to get married, it changes the definition of OUR marriage! If we let gay people marry, won't people start marrying animals or children!?!?

You guys can keep talking about your slippery slope towards a genderless soceity where you lose your job and get thrown in prison for not referring to yourself as a "cis male". Me? I'll sleep tight tonight not worrying about the trans boogeyman under my bed.

So in that regard, we need to stop medicating all the people that hear voices. They're in touch with reality. We're just not in touch with it.

At some point, there needs to be a distinction.

I'm drawing that distinction at the point that a person couldn't possibly consider themselves any gender. You are no longer having thoughts based in reality, but thoughts based in a delusional fantasy where biology doesn't exist.

Can someone show me an example of a human being shifting towards a state of having no genitals or switching between the genders fluidly? I know it exists in nature in other species. I'm guessing since the human mind tells it that it's biology is wrong, you'd be able to find some examples where evolution/natural mutation would cause that to occur. But until that day comes.

Man, woman, no in between.

 

[David.]

I remember when homosexuals were thought to suffer from a mental illness, and that accepting them was looked at as enabling a delusion. Do we want homosexual men in our bathrooms with our children? What if they get molested? Plus the slippery slope argument of gay marriage. If we allow gay people to get married, it changes the definition of OUR marriage! If we let gay people marry, won't people start marrying animals or children!?!?

You guys can keep talking about your slippery slope towards a genderless soceity where you lose your job and get thrown in prison for not referring to yourself as a "cis male". Me? I'll sleep tight tonight not worrying about the trans boogeyman under my bed.

A couple quick points while im Working,

Transgenderism is literally your mind not agreeing with reality. I don't know what else you could call that but an illness. understand your point though. I'm not disallowing it and i have no disdain for trans people, but we have to be honest about what things are or we risk improperly addressing issues and prescribing solutions. By exploring specific details we see less false equivalence and also have q better understanding of the topic

Like with other fallacies, they're not always fallacies. Slippery slope, especially in this instance, is merely a logical extension of Whats being suggested and its important to explore that extension because you're setting precedent and determining consequence. Can't throw spaghetti at the wall.

 

[David.]

So in that regard, we need to stop medicating all the people that hear voices. They're in touch with reality. We're just not in touch with it.

At some point, there needs to be a distinction.

I'm drawing that distinction at the point that a person couldn't possibly consider themselves any gender. You are no longer having thoughts based in reality, but thoughts based in a delusional fantasy where biology doesn't exist.

Can someone show me an example of a human being shifting towards a state of having no genitals or switching between the genders fluidly? I know it exists in nature in other species. I'm guessing since the human mind tells it that it's biology is wrong, you'd be able to find some examples where evolution/natural mutation would cause that to occur. But until that day comes.

Man, woman, no in between.

You'll get jumped on for Kleinfelters, but thats not really what were talking about. Its a non sequitur

 

[The Oi]

So in that regard, we need to stop medicating all the people that hear voices. They're in touch with reality. We're just not in touch with it.

At some point, there needs to be a distinction.

I'm drawing that distinction at the point that a person couldn't possibly consider themselves any gender. You are no longer having thoughts based in reality, but thoughts based in a delusional fantasy where biology doesn't exist.

Can someone show me an example of a human being shifting towards a state of having no genitals or switching between the genders fluidly? I know it exists in nature in other species. I'm guessing since the human mind tells it that it's biology is wrong, you'd be able to find some examples where evolution/natural mutation would cause that to occur. But until that day comes.

Man, woman, no in between.

Footage:

 

[Man Called X]

Footage:

We've all seen my introduction. Please provide relevant points to the discussion.

I need instances of people that reproduce asexually other than the Virgin Mary.

 

[Man Called X]

You'll get jumped on for Kleinfelters, but thats not really what were talking about. Its a non sequitur

Genetic mutation that usually leads to sterility. Which basically isn't a mutation that's going to continue to be passed down as the mutation occurs and prevents you from reproducing *without expensive surgeries/treatments etc that are risky themselves*

 

[David.]

Footage:

You win today.

 

[The Oi]

We've all seen my introduction. Please provide relevant points to the discussion.

I need instances of people that reproduce asexually other than the Virgin Mary.

So they need to reproduce too. Damn...tough customer!