The Transgender Issue

[-Akronite-]

"Swallows Restaurant is a Reno staple — a family-style restaurant by day, and an anything goes pan-sexual bazaar by night. They offer smoothies, malts, leather ponies and a salad bar."

What's the leather pony?

I don't know we don't have that at lunch.

 

[Sebastian]

What's the leather pony?

I don't know we don't have that at lunch.

I think they are in the grind room.

 

[gourimoko]

It's mental disease. This is like blaming society for schizophrenia, IMO.

According to who?

Specifically with respect to this analogy of schizophrenia...

 

[The Oi]

What's the leather pony?

I don't know we don't have that at lunch.

You do. Everyone does.

You just don’t know the right people to ask.

 

[pr26]

"Useful"?

I dunno that I'd describe what I'd be looking for as useful. I'd just like to talk to a transexual because I'm curious about people in general and I'd like to learn about their life situation because they're different than me. They're also awfully rare so if I were to have the opportunity to talk with one, I'd rather not waste it. And if it would make them feel better about their life situation, I'd like to contribute to that.

I'm not a cardiovascular surgeon so I might ask them questions when I talk to them if they seemed willing to talk about it. Didn't grow up in Bulgaria, so if I met a Bulgarian I'd ask questions about Bulgaria if they were down with it. Some people don't like to talk about their professions, identities, where they from, etc because they get asked about it all the time or at the end of the day they want to do something else. They don't want to be treated like a specimen or a novelty...

But I'd imagine somebody who has been treated like shit their entire lives because of the way they are would probably be open to talking about their identity with somebody who was open-minded to it and wouldn't bash them.

Who knows.

You've been low key killing it in the political threads lately. You better get back to shit posting before your brand is damaged.

 

[Sebastian]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6omQ5JjjLsE

 

[Whittaker]

There's a HUUUUGE difference between de-stigmatizing mental disorders and excusing child molesters. I feel like you've really misinterpreted the point. We should make it easier for people with mental issues to seek help and live normal lives.

If someone is a pedophile, that is a fucking sickness. If they act on it, it's a crime. We don't solve the problem by normalizing pedophilia, but we can help people by making it clear that it's okay to seek help even for shameful issues like this rather than dealing with it on your own and doing something vile.

Schizophrenia is not a crime. And most people don't even understand the disorder or assume that someone being clinically insane must be dangerous or violent. There are also issues with diseases like depression, where people assume someone can snap out of it. There is still a stigma and financial hurdles between many Americans and proper mental health treatment. THAT'S the point, not that we should excuse serial adulterers (I don't know that much but I'm highly skeptical of these "sex addicts") or child rapists. I mean, come on.

Stigmatize--to regard as worthy of disgrace or great disapproval.

If we de-stigmatized something we are regarding it as less worthy of disgrace and less worthy of great disapproval.

You said "in general we need to de-stigmatize mental illness".
I said "yes and no" indicating that I agreed in part and disagreed in part. Then I gave the negative example of pedophilia, which should not be regarded as less worthy of disgrace or less worthy of disapproval even though it has been declared a mental disorder.

I don't think we have a serious dispute here. Maybe you are relying on a different definition of 'stigmatize'.
Regardless, I regard pedophilia as worthy of disgrace and great disapproval and wish everyone did the same. It doesn't matter to me that some pseudo-scientific group has declared it a mental disorder. It is immoral. I don't want it to be de-stigmatized.
And if the American Psychiatric Association declared racism to be a mental disorder, I wouldn't favor de-stigmatizing racism either.

 

[Cratylus]

I'm waiting for the day when multiple personality disorder is categorized by academia and psychological "researchers" as being a normal state of personal identity on a spectrum of identity possibilities.

I mean, we have no right to try to change who a person truly feels they are at the cognitive level. I say it's high time we stop locking these folks up in mental hospitals and trying to "treat" them. Let them live their lives with respect and dignity and stop trying to force our outdated beliefs about self-identity onto them.

 

[Sebastian]

I'm waiting for the day when multiple personality disorder is categorized by academia and psychological "researchers" as being a normal state of personal identity on a spectrum of identity possibilities.

I mean, we have no right to try to change who a person truly feels they are at the cognitive level. I say it's high time we stop locking these folks up in mental hospitals and trying to "treat" them. Let them live their lives with respect and dignity and stop trying to force our outdated beliefs about self-identity onto them.

Pffttt.

Joke's on you. Many psychologists and psychiatrists don't believe multiple personality disorder actually exists.

I think it, and repressed childhood trauma, is a load of BS invented by people with a profit motive.

 

[Cratylus]

Pffttt.

Joke's on you. Many psychologists and psychiatrists don't believe multiple personality disorder actually exists.

I think it, and repressed childhood trauma, is a load of BS invented by people with a profit motive.

You're just being insensitive. Maybe if you actually talked to a person with multiple personality disorder you might develop some empathy.

 

[The Oi]

You've been low key killing it in the political threads lately. You better get back to shit posting before your brand is damaged.

I’ll eventually lose interest and take my talents to the Tickets forum.

 

[-Akronite-]

Stigmatize--to regard as worthy of disgrace or great disapproval.

If we de-stigmatized something we are regarding it as less worthy of disgrace and less worthy of great disapproval.

You said "in general we need to de-stigmatize mental illness".
I said "yes and no" indicating that I agreed in part and disagreed in part. Then I gave the negative example of pedophilia, which should not be regarded as less worthy of disgrace or less worthy of disapproval even though it has been declared a mental disorder.

I don't think we have a serious dispute here. Maybe you are relying on a different definition of 'stigmatize'.
Regardless, I regard pedophilia as worthy of disgrace and great disapproval and wish everyone did the same. It doesn't matter to me that some pseudo-scientific group has declared it a mental disorder. It is immoral. I don't want it to be de-stigmatized.
And if the American Psychiatric Association declared racism to be a mental disorder, I wouldn't favor de-stigmatizing racism either.

I still feel you're really missing the mark on what I'm saying... When I say de-stigmatize mental illness, that's not at all equivalent to de-stigmatizing pedophilia or child molestation or what have you itself. I'm not saying "hey, so what if you hear voices in your head, DO YOU!" I'm saying we shouldn't act like it's someone's fault if they have a mental illness and we shouldn't treat mental illness as something that makes you a freak on its own.

What pseudo-scientific group? Are you saying that someone attracted to children is NOT mentally ill? That person is sick. Acting on their urges would be horribly immoral, obviously. The point is that we shouldn't make someone feel inhuman for having a mental illness. We should have an environment where people feel that they can get help and not be judged so harshly for seeking such help, whether that's someone very sick trying to overcome sick urges or, far more commonly, someone dealing with depression.

Racism is a fine analogy. Let's say someone has racist thoughts. When a black guy walks by they always think something awful. If they started yelling the n-word that'd be horrid. But if that person came to me and explained these thoughts, seeking help and maybe looking for opportunities to talk to more black people* in order to combat their internalized racism (whatever the cause), I wouldn't judge them. This is WAY harder to apply to someone with sexual thoughts about children, obviously, but still I'd rather that person have a way to seek help than let them stew in their sick thoughts and self-hate until they hurt someone.

*I'm not recommending pedophiles spend more time around children, the analogy is actually not that good.

 

[Sebastian]

You're just being insensitive. Maybe if you actually talked to a person with multiple personality disorder you might develop some empathy.

I don't need empathy. I have my pre-conceived notions that I will cling onto even in the face of all evidence to the contrary. Moreover, I will refuse to acknowledge the contributions of subject matter experts and science, even though I have no idea what I am talking about, because it is inconvenient. I do this so I can continue to make fun of people without feeling bad about myself in a consequence free environment. It is actually the only reason I even care about the issue: The freedom to continue to mock people.

But, in all seriousness, the debate over MPD and Repressed Childhood Memories is fascinating and very bloody. MPD wasn't even really a thing until the book Sybil came out, followed by that mini-series. After that hit everyone's monkey's uncle had MPD and had been ritually raped by a satanic cult.* Of course, the author of the book later admitted it was all fabricated.

*Yes, this is what many people with repressed memories and MPD claim.

 

[David.]

I don't need empathy. I have my pre-conceived notions that I will cling onto even in the face of all evidence to the contrary. Moreover, I will refuse to acknowledge the contributions of subject matter experts and science, even though I have no idea what I am talking about, because it is inconvenient. I do this so I can continue to make fun of people without feeling bad about myself in a consequence free environment. It is actually the only reason I even care about the issue: The freedom to continue to mock people.

But, in all seriousness, the debate over MPD and Repressed Childhood Memories is fascinating and very bloody. MPD wasn't even really a thing until the book Sybil came out, followed by that mini-series. After that hit everyone's monkey's uncle had MPD and had been ritually raped by a satanic cult.* Of course, the author of the book later admitted it was all fabricated.

*Yes, this is what many people with repressed memories and MPD claim.

Who is mocking anyone?

 

[Wrathe]

According to who?

Specifically with respect to this analogy of schizophrenia...

DSM-V, last I saw.