The Transgender Issue

[Maximus]

I can't keep up with what's acceptable and what's a slur any more. I also can't keep up with the alphabet of categories everyone wants to be labeled either. I was at a fundraiser at a college last week and they have a learning and living center for people who were LGBTQIA. There's also P & K, but there's disagreement about whether those deserve recognition. I was immediately on google and shocked to see that "Queer" is now a category. I asked someone from the school about it during dinner, i said that i was under the impression it was a slur. He said, something to the effect "to some it absolutely it is a slur, to some it's a proud label and they want to be called 'queer'". My head hurt, it made no sense so i dropped it. Pretty soon we are all going to have to wear name tags saying what category we are...and our pronoun preference.

"P" stands for "Pansexual"...i cant even remember what the heck that is...but i will call Gary a "Panny" next time i see him.

LGBTQIAPK...WTF???

Gary: "And a glorious morning to you, Max! What brings you in before noon...oh shit...what brings you in on a Friday?"
Me: "Shut up G...how's my favorite panny?"
Gary: "Maxey, you know i haven't touched a V since grade school and the tranny thing aint my cup of java. But, it's cool that you learned a new word today. You drove here to tell that joke didn't you?"
Me: "Uhhh...no...i have work to do".
Gary: "Honey, go play golf...or im sure it's happy hour somewhere. Tell the wife i'll see her at Orange Theory."
Me: "ok...email copies of any orders."

 

[The Oi]

The rest of it are lifestyle/behavioral choices that people are free to make.

I doubt that the mental state is a choice. But whether they choose to live as a man or woman is obviously a choice. And I agree...it doesn't affect me in any way whatsoever, I don't care.

I defer to the trannies and people who study this. I'd honestly like to talk to a tranny and learn more about it. I don't know enough about it, super complex.

 

[-Akronite-]

I can't keep up with what's acceptable and what's a slur any more. I also can't keep up with the alphabet of categories everyone wants to be labeled either. I was at a fundraiser at a college last week and they have a learning and living center for people who were LGBTQIA. There's also P & K, but there's disagreement about whether those deserve recognition. I was immediately on google and shocked to see that "Queer" is now a category. I asked someone from the school about it during dinner, i said that i was under the impression it was a slur. He said, something to the effect "to some it absolutely it is a slur, to some it's a proud label and they want to be called 'queer'". My head hurt, it made no sense so i dropped it. Pretty soon we are all going to have to wear name tags saying what category we are...and our pronoun preference.

"P" stands for "Pansexual"...i cant even remember what the heck that is...but i will call Gary a "Panny" next time i see him.

LGBTQIAPK...WTF???

I must say it's strange that there hasn't been an acceptable blanket terms for these groups hasn't become the norm yet. Not sure what would work well, since there are so many differences and this is about advocacy for orientations and genders and other stuff. But as soon as they got past LGBT the whole thing became very unwieldy.

And yeah, "queer" has been reclaimed.

It's mental disease. This is like blaming society for schizophrenia, IMO.

Actually, this sort of brings to light the issue that mental disease in general needs to be de-stigmatized.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

I doubt that the mental state is a choice. But whether they choose to live as a man or woman is obviously a choice.

I defer to the trannies and people who study this. I'd honestly like to talk to a tranny and learn more about it. I don't know enough about it, super complex.

Is talking to "a" tranny any more useful than talking to "a" black guy? I imagine that like everyone else, there are a lot of differences of opinion within that group.

For example, I saw an interview with one guy who was transgender, but also said that he knew he really wasn't an actual woman, but that living that way made him feel happier than he'd ever been, and he just wished people wouldn't harass him. It was an incredible piece of introspection on his part, and I really hope he finds happiness.

But I also wouldn't claim he's "representative" of transgender people in general. I think the transgender people who are more militant/public/eager to speak out may feel differently than those who more quietly go about their lives.

 

[The Oi]

Is talking to "a" tranny any more useful than talking to "a" black guy? I imagine that like everyone else, there are a lot of differences of opinion.

"Useful"?

I dunno that I'd describe what I'd be looking for as useful. I'd just like to talk to a transexual because I'm curious about people in general and I'd like to learn about their life situation because they're different than me. They're also awfully rare so if I were to have the opportunity to talk with one, I'd rather not waste it. And if it would make them feel better about their life situation, I'd like to contribute to that.

I'm not a cardiovascular surgeon so I might ask them questions when I talk to them if they seemed willing to talk about it. Didn't grow up in Bulgaria, so if I met a Bulgarian I'd ask questions about Bulgaria if they were down with it. Some people don't like to talk about their professions, identities, where they from, etc because they get asked about it all the time or at the end of the day they want to do something else. They don't want to be treated like a specimen or a novelty...

But I'd imagine somebody who has been treated like shit their entire lives because of the way they are would probably be open to talking about their identity with somebody who was open-minded to it and wouldn't bash them.

Who knows.

 

[-Akronite-]

Is talking to "a" tranny any more useful than talking to "a" black guy?

If you're looking for perspective, yes, it's very useful to talk to people that are different than you.

I doubt Jigo is saying that he wants to find one trans person and assume everything they say applies to everyone.

But I always assumed Jigo was a black tranny so not sure what he'd get out of either.

 

[The Oi]

But I always assumed Jigo was a black tranny so not sure what he'd get out of either.

I'm a Hispanny panny granny tranny.

 

[Whittaker]

Actually, this sort of brings to light the issue that mental disease in general needs to be de-stigmatized.

Well, yes and no.
All kinds of despicable behavior are now being classified as mental disease or disorder...pedophilia for one.
I have no problem with stigmatizing child molesters.

 

[Sebastian]

I can't keep up with what's acceptable and what's a slur any more. I also can't keep up with the alphabet of categories everyone wants to be labeled either. I was at a fundraiser at a college last week and they have a learning and living center for people who were LGBTQIA. There's also P & K, but there's disagreement about whether those deserve recognition. I was immediately on google and shocked to see that "Queer" is now a category. I asked someone from the school about it during dinner, i said that i was under the impression it was a slur. He said, something to the effect "to some it absolutely it is a slur, to some it's a proud label and they want to be called 'queer'". My head hurt, it made no sense so i dropped it. Pretty soon we are all going to have to wear name tags saying what category we are...and our pronoun preference.

"P" stands for "Pansexual"...i cant even remember what the heck that is...but i will call Gary a "Panny" next time i see him.

LGBTQIAPK...WTF???

 

[Huber.]

Does anyone get these?

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

I doubt that the mental state is a choice. But whether they choose to live as a man or woman is obviously a choice.

What I was trying to get across - badly, I admit - was that there is an almost infinite spectrum of behaviors/preferences that typically have been associated with being male/female. But - leaving the whole LGBT alphabet soup out of it for a moment - people have always fallen along different points on that spectrum. Woody Allen and Charles Barkley are at much different points on that spectrum. Do they each "choose" to behave that way, or do they simply behave that way because it is what comes most naturally to them? And are either of them more "man" than the other, or are they both men who simply don't conform equally to traditional American gender norms?

And supposedly, wasn't it considered good to move away from those traditional roles, so that makes and females could dress and act as they wanted regardless of how "society" says they should?

So that's what I mean by people "choosing" how they behave. We all fit those societal norms to greater or lesser degrees, but I don't believe that compliance with those ever-changing social norms is what makes people male or female. Else, we're going to need to start making up new letters to account for all those potential variations.

 

[-Akronite-]

Well, yes and no.
All kinds of despicable behavior are now being classified as mental disease or disorder...pedophilia for one.
I have no problem with stigmatizing child molesters.

There's a HUUUUGE difference between de-stigmatizing mental disorders and excusing child molesters. I feel like you've really misinterpreted the point. We should make it easier for people with mental issues to seek help and live normal lives.

If someone is a pedophile, that is a fucking sickness. If they act on it, it's a crime. We don't solve the problem by normalizing pedophilia, but we can help people by making it clear that it's okay to seek help even for shameful issues like this rather than dealing with it on your own and doing something vile.

Schizophrenia is not a crime. And most people don't even understand the disorder or assume that someone being clinically insane must be dangerous or violent. There are also issues with diseases like depression, where people assume someone can snap out of it. There is still a stigma and financial hurdles between many Americans and proper mental health treatment. THAT'S the point, not that we should excuse serial adulterers (I don't know that much but I'm highly skeptical of these "sex addicts") or child rapists. I mean, come on.

 

[Nathan S]

What I was trying to get across - badly, I admit - was that there is an almost infinite spectrum of behaviors/preferences that typically have been associated with being male/female. But - leaving the whole LGBT alphabet soup out of it for a moment - people have always fallen along different points on that spectrum. Woody Allen and Charles Barkley are at much different points on that spectrum. Do they each "choose" to behave that way, or do they simply behave that way because it is what comes most naturally to them? And are either of them more "man" than the other, or are they both men who simply don't conform equally to traditional American gender norms?

And supposedly, wasn't it considered good to move away from those traditional roles, so that makes and females could dress and act as they wanted regardless of how "society" says they should?

So that's what I mean by people "choosing" how they behave. We all fit those societal norms to greater or lesser degrees, but I don't believe that compliance with those ever-changing social norms is what makes people male or female. Else, we're going to need to start making up new letters to account for all those potential variations.

Mostly agree, but while the dictionary definitions of "male" and "female" may be biological, those words are loaded with connotations that have been slow to change. It makes sense that people who find themselves strongly at odds with those connotations feel uncomfortable being described with those words.

 

[The Oi]

Does anyone get these?

Swallows is a pansexual bar that Tobias was a waiter (?) or maybe just a big fan of. Can’t remember.

But yes, definitely.

 

[Sebastian]

Swallows is a pansexual bar that Tobias was a waiter (?) or maybe just a big fan of. Can’t remember.

But yes, definitely.

"Swallows Restaurant is a Reno staple — a family-style restaurant by day, and an anything goes pan-sexual bazaar by night. They offer smoothies, malts, leather ponies and a salad bar."