The Transgender Issue

[gourimoko]

Once they transition to what they believe is their proper gender do they feel better?

The vast majority do.. But the psychological aspects of this are massively complex, and "transitioning" is more than just sex-change, it starts with just living as the desired gender... And the degree to which a person finds acceptance in both their familial life as well as within society plays a huge role in their own ability to cope.

Imagine being an enormous burly man who also believes deep down that you're meant to be female. Living convincingly (particularly to oneself) as a woman might be utterly impossible. Couple that with coming from an Evangelical conservative family that isn't necessarily tolerant, or.. simply bigoted -- or having a job with folks who aren't either.

Hell, what if the person is married with children?

All of these things can lead a person to a state of mental disorder called gender dysphoria disorder.

I know that they have higher suicide rates than the population as a whole, but that could be due to a number of factors including the way they're treated by society.

It's wholly due to that... Being transgendered does not entail being suicidal; it just comes from being rejected -- even by the self.

 

[Sebastian]

Once they transition to what they believe is their proper gender do they feel better? I know that they have higher suicide rates than the population as a whole, but that could be due to a number of factors including the way they're treated by society.

The only treatment for gender dysphoria that is effective is them living as the gender they believe they are. Psychological and biological treatments aimed at helping people achieve their desired gender have highly favorable outcomes.

Psychotherapies to dissuade them from that belief is not effective and is, in many cases, damaging.

 

[The Oi]

Somebody make a good tranny joke in a tone befitting me.

 

[Maximus]

Somebody make a good tranny joke in a tone befitting me.

What did the tranny tell Jigo?

It takes balls to be a transvestite.

 

[David.]

What did the tranny tell Jigo?

It takes balls to be a transvestite.

I saw that joke on a snapple bottle you thief

 

[Wrathe]

The only treatment for gender dysphoria that is effective is them living as the gender they believe they are. Psychological and biological treatments aimed at helping people achieve their desired gender have highly favorable outcomes.

Psychotherapies to dissuade them from that belief is not effective and is, in many cases, damaging.

Oddly, the mortality rates are still very high for gender dysphoria patients, even after SRS according to this study:
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0016885

 

[Sebastian]

Oddly, the mortality rates are still very high for gender dysphoria patients, even after SRS according to this study:
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0016885

I'm not surprised that study found those results considering even after transition Trans people face much discrimination. Moreover, people with gender dysphoria have high co-morbidity with a host of psychological issues that stem from that condition either as a result of the stress caused by the condition itself or from the abuse many experience. These people lead difficult lives. It is most unfortunate.

Moreover, that study's sample period, 1973-2003 in Sweden, reflects an era in which acceptance was still very low. Even for a nation as liberal as Sweden. I would hope that in 40 years, a study with a sample period of 2020-2040, will be far kinder in its results. (One also hopes that the study itself is tightened up from a scientific perspective as the methodologies rely a great deal on self-reporting and many people of that era probably sought to live in society unnoticed).

 

[David.]

I'm not surprised that study found those results considering even after transition Trans people face much discrimination. Moreover, people with gender dysphoria have high co-morbidity with a host of psychological issues that stem from that condition either as a result of the stress caused by the condition itself or from the abuse many experience. These people lead difficult lives. It is most unfortunate.

Moreover, that study's sample period, 1973-2003 in Sweden, reflects an era in which acceptance was still very low. Even for a nation as liberal as Sweden. I would hope that in 40 years, a study with a sample period of 2020-2040, will be far kinder in its results. (One also hopes that the study itself is tightened up from a scientific perspective as the methodologies rely a great deal on self-reporting and many people of that era probably sought to live in society unnoticed).

Jews in nazi Germany had a lower suicide rate. Unlikely its just because people are mean to them

 

[Sebastian]

Jews in nazi Germany had a lower suicide rate. Unlikely its just because people are mean to them

Then what is it?

 

[David.]

Then what is it?

No idea. I'll phrase it carefully because I know people disagree with it, but issues normally come in bundles. I'm add and bipolar and have serious issues with addiction, among other things.

I think there's recently been discovered a disconnect in self perception in brain chemistry/anatomy that produces it (in trans people). Normally the more neurotic you are the worse of a time you're gonna have. Normally the smaller the support system, normally the more drug issues, etc. They're all tied in.

 

[Sebastian]

No idea. I'll phrase it carefully because I know people disagree with it, but issues normally come in bundles. I'm add and bipolar and have serious issues with addiction, among other things.

I think there's recently been discovered a disconnect in self perception in brain chemistry/anatomy that produces it (in trans people). Normally the more neurotic you are the worse of a time you're gonna have. Normally the smaller the support system, normally the more drug issues, etc. They're all tied in.

Well you are not wrong in that the more neurotic have a diathesis, or vulnerability and lack of resilience, to many, many disorders.

But, then it becomes a matter of causation with co-morbid disorders. Did gender dysphoria cause their issues, do they go hand in hand with other disorders, or have the other disorders manifested in gender dysphoria?

The overwhelming consensus in psychology and psychiatry is that gender dysphoria leads to co-morbidity with anxiety and mood disorders and not vice-versa.

However, there are some interesting observations about gender dysphoria in children, as opposed to adolescents, that kind of make things more interesting. But I'm sure no one is interested in that.

 

[David.]

Well you are not wrong in that the more neurotic have a diathesis, or vulnerability and lack of resilience, to many, many disorders.

But, then it becomes a matter of causation with co-morbid disorders. Did gender dysphoria cause their issues, do they go hand in hand with other disorders, or have the other disorders manifested in gender dysphoria?

The overwhelming consensus in psychology and psychiatry is that gender dysphoria leads to co-morbidity with anxiety and mood disorders and not vice-versa.

However, there are some interesting observations about gender dysphoria in children, as opposed to adolescents, that kind of make things more interesting. But I'm sure no one is interested in that.

So in your estimation trauma occurs related to gender dysphoria and is irreversible even after reassignment?

Im not sure that fleshes out considering mental health in general significantly improves after reassignment, but suicidality remains constant. Amy thoughts on that?

 

[gourimoko]

So in your estimation trauma occurs related to gender dysphoria and is irreversible even after reassignment?

Im not sure that fleshes out considering mental health in general significantly improves after reassignment, but suicidality remains constant. Amy thoughts on that?

The aforementioned study in this thread states that the majority of studies on this topic found that the bolded is false. It was this study, the one linked, that found differing results; but as @King Stannis points out (and I read the study out of interest) there are some reasons to believe other factors were in play, including the time-period of the reassignments and the level of acceptance in Sweden during that era.

I think you would find that your supposition likely would not hold up across cultural boundaries where there exist "third genders" or a higher acceptance or tolerance towards transgendered people, particularly in certain parts of Asia.

 

[Sebastian]

So in your estimation trauma occurs related to gender dysphoria and is irreversible even after reassignment?

Im not sure that fleshes out considering mental health in general significantly improves after reassignment, but suicidality remains constant. Amy thoughts on that?

1) Not my estimation. It is the estimation of the body of work on the subject.

2) It is also an old and flawed study. Indeed, we've been here before when Trump threatened to ban trans people from serving. I cited, in proper format, 6 or 7 studies, from peer reviewed journals, that supported the consensus.

I am not sufficiently advanced to submit my own findings as I have not conducted a study. However, I am sufficiently capable of interpreting the results of established studies.

Mental health is not as clean-cut as that of biological trauma. In many cases we are talking about children exposed to a variety of psychological trauma stemming from discrimination associated with gender dysphoria. That trauma at such early levels of development can be devastating and life-long.

Moreover, you haven't presented studies that support your claim that is recent.

 

[David.]

1) Not my estimation. It is the estimation of the body of work on the subject.

2) It is also an old and flawed study. Indeed, we've been here before when Trump threatened to ban trans people from serving. I cited, in proper format, 6 or 7 studies, from peer reviewed journals, that supported the consensus.

I am not sufficiently advanced to submit my own findings as I have not conducted a study. However, I am sufficiently capable of interpreting the results of established studies.

Mental health is not as clean-cut as that of biological trauma. In many cases we are talking about children exposed to a variety of psychological trauma stemming from discrimination associated with gender dysphoria. That trauma at such early levels of development can be devastating and life-long.

Moreover, you haven't presented studies that support your claim that is recent.

Jeez I thought we were talking casually. Haha. Just wanted an opinion, not to look for pages somewhere deep on rcf.