Tracking the Pacers

[KI4MVP]

I didn't know the pacers won 4 games tonight.

 

[Nathan S]

Isn't this what they call a "dead cat bounce" in economics? :chuckles:

 

[gourimoko]

Yahoo Sports reports that Indiana Pacers guards Lance Stephenson and Evan Turner we involved in a fight during practice the day before the Pacers' first-round series against the Hawks began.

On the eve of this Eastern Conference series, the wobbling No. 1 seed punctuated its final playoff preparations in a most self-destructive way: Two Indiana Pacers dragged a cursing, cut Evan Turner out of the Bankers Life Fieldhouse court, untangling him from a practice-floor fistfight with teammate Lance Stephenson.

Turner hadn't been the first Pacer to lose his temper with Stephenson these tumultuous several weeks, and Stephenson's relentlessly irritable nature suggests Turner won't be the last. These scrapes aren't uncommon in the NBA, but this confrontation had been weeks in the making and that reflected in the ferocity of the encounter, sources told Yahoo Sports.

"This stuff happens, but the timing wasn't ideal," one witness told Yahoo Sports.

If acrimony naturally lingered into Saturday, make no mistake: Stephenson and Turner weren't the reason the Atlanta Hawks embarrassed the Pacers in Game 1. Maybe it tilted the mood of locker room, but no one dared suggest that it held responsibility for deadening the Pacers into defeat.

via Pacers fight each other on eve of playoffs, finally take swing at Hawks in Game 2 - Yahoo Sports.

Lance Stephenson got on someone's nerves? You must be joking! Say it isn't so!

This is about a "2" on the surprising meter. Guy fight in practice. There's nothing that says that you have to like one another in an NBA environment. There are lots of teams that have disliked each other that have been successful and plenty of teams that love one another and get along that can't win.

But it's more of a sign that the decision to trade Danny Granger for Turner was a mistake. Not for basketball reasons. Granger was doing nothing for Indiana and has done only slightly more than nothing for the Clippers. But trading Granger did change the dynamics of the locker room. This fight with Stephenson maybe wouldn't have happened with Granger, he's a vet that has the respect of the locker room. But then, there's no way to know with Stephenson.

Either way, it's more drama for a Pacers team that thought it might have a chance to put the drama behind it Tuesday with a win to even the series vs. Atlanta. But you can bet more questions about this fight will be waiting for the Pacers this week.

One of those two will be dealt this offseason after the Pacers get owned by the Heat, again.

 

[Rich]

Well that's not a tough decision. One of those two is good and one of them is bad.

 

[gourimoko]

Well that's not a tough decision. One of those two is good and one of them is bad.

Not really as simple as that. If Stephenson is the cause of much of the recent angst and trouble in the Pacers locker room, I could see them dealing him in a S&T.

 

[Jack Brickman]

Not really as simple as that. If Stephenson is the cause of much of the recent angst and trouble in the Pacers locker room, I could see them dealing him in a S&T.

That doesn't make Turner suck any less. :chuckles:

 

[Walter White]

Stephenson is a headache on and off the floor with his personality. I don't know why people want him on the Cavs so bad. I'll take Dion.

 

[billmac91]

Indiana's cohesion was disrupted when Turner was brought in. It has very little to do with Granger going out.

Bird miscalculated a bit with what would happen in the locker-room. Bringing in Turner was supposed to be leverage against Lance Stephenson and his impending free agency. Lance and his agent recognized that and it has caused a lot of tension.

I understand what Bird was trying to do, and it still makes sense to me from a basketball standpoint (Turner is a poor mans Stephenson so from a substitution standpoint it should create a seamless transition to the second unit) but the locker room dysfunction has been through the roof the last month.

 

[Cashius X]

It looks like Stephenson is the cause of the Pacers recent collapse. At least that's what I'm gathereing.

After the Woj article came out this morning I checked the Pacers forums to see what they had to say about it. A lot of surface issues were brought up like "let's blame Larry for getting rid of Granger and messing up the chemistry" or "let's blame Vogel for not policing his team" but after a while a Mod finally chimed in.

Basically talked about how Lance is the cause of the team's struggles. The team is Paul George's and everybody is content with that. David West. Roy Hibbert. George Hill. Everybody is fine with Paul being the man. Problem is with Stephenson getting more acclaim he wants to be the man and the leader of the team and it's causing upheaval and chemistry issues as players don't look at him as a leader. Here's the quote.

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

I was pulling my hair out as I read each post and no one even mentioned the most important part of the article and the situation.

Taking this into account and taking Roy's comments clearly about Lance into the equation.

Isn't it obvious, Lance is the problem as many have suspected, and he must go. That to me is a given and then we can work on putting this team back together. The team was able to put up with lance for a few years, but that was before he started trying to become the man on the team.

This is PG's team. West seems fine with that. Roy seems fine with that. I'm sure the other players are fine with that. But I don't think they are fine with Lance trying to make this his team.

And no I don't blame the Granger trade. I blame Lance. he's the cancer, he's the problem. I will be very upset if he is back next season, and I'd be shocked if he is back next season.

He's an admin on their forum so I take his word. Surprising stuff for sure but it makes sense when you think about it.

Edit: Another quote I pulled that leads me to believe the Pacers team has a problem with Lance.

Here are the comments from Roy that I think are rather telling. These were after the Knicks game

http://www.indystar.com/story/sports...nicks/6637785/

"Sometimes when we have success with a certain style, things change. People's roles change," Hibbert said. "And some nights we have nights like this where you get going in the game but we've been more a perimeter-oriented team.
"Did ok," Hibbert continued, but paused, "I think you know what I'm trying to say but I'm not going to say it."


"We've fallen in love with the jump shot for a while," Hibbert said. "People feel like they have it going and they want to do it themselves sometimes. That's just how it works. I feel like two guys that I have 100 percent trust in doing that is Paul and David. I feel like they should have carte blanche on whatever they want to do in terms of attacking the paint and (put) the ball's in their hands because they've earned my respect."


"They're able to do it at a high level, even if they start off a little slow but I know they're going to bring it. Those guys have the green light whenever they have it, but other than that I think we should move the ball and get people involved."

Lance is trying to take over and people have a problem with it.

 

[Lionheart]

Not sure if this was already posted but:

Pacers fight each other on eve of playoffs, finally take swing at Hawks in Game 2

By Adrian Wojnarowski

INDIANAPOLIS – On the eve of this Eastern Conference series, the wobbling No. 1 seed punctuated its final playoff preparations in a most self-destructive way: Two Indiana Pacers dragged a cursing, cut Evan Turner out of the Bankers Life Fieldhouse court, untangling him from a practice-floor fistfight with teammate Lance Stephenson.

Turner hadn't been the first Pacer to lose his temper with Stephenson these tumultuous several weeks, and Stephenson's relentlessly irritable nature suggests Turner won't be the last. These scrapes aren't uncommon in the NBA, but this confrontation had been weeks in the making and that reflected in the ferocity of the encounter, sources told Yahoo Sports.

"This stuff happens, but the timing wasn't ideal," one witness told Yahoo Sports.

If acrimony naturally lingered into Saturday, make no mistake: Stephenson and Turner weren't the reason the Atlanta Hawks embarrassed the Pacers in Game 1. Maybe it tilted the mood of locker room, but no one dared suggest that it held responsibility for deadening the Pacers into defeat.

These two guards have struggled together since the deadline deal brought Turner from Philadelphia to Indiana. Suddenly, Turner is learning to play without the ball in his hands, and Stephenson is relearning the balance of passing and shooting. Truth be told, there were probably Pacers willing to let Stephenson and Turner beat the dribble out of each other. Still, Luis Scola and David West finally grabbed an enraged Turner and separated Stephenson.

If the scrape had been symptomatic of greater tensions within the Pacers, it's also clear this has been a full team collapse and will need to be a full team recovery.

"We've been on the ropes a little bit," West told Yahoo Sports Tuesday night. "Every team goes through that. But I thought we did a great job of dealing with whatever issues we had. The great thing about this group has always been that we're very open with one another, always been able to get through the ups and downs of a long NBA season."

Yes, they did it with fists on Friday, but mostly they've found a way to talk through the frustrations of a flat-lined final several weeks of the season.

These Pacers have been a combustible mix of talent and expectations and immaturity. Still, Indiana finally found footing with a 101-85 Game 2 victory over Atlanta on Tuesday night at Bankers Life. Paul George was fantastic and Roy Hibbert struggled again. Indiana can live without Hibbert in this series, but he'll need to be himself again to make a championship run. The Pacers need to go smaller with the Hawks, but that wouldn't be the case in the conference semifinals and conference finals.

"We know that Larry [Bird] and Donnie [Walsh] and [Kevin Pritchard] put a team together to try and win a championship this year," Hibbert told Yahoo Sports. "We know that's the goal, and we know that's the kind of talent we have here. It's up to us now to do it, to get it done."

These aren't the Pacers of the relentlessly patient Donnie Walsh anymore, and rest assured: Bird won't let a collapse go unaccounted. Frank Vogel's coaching job is on the line, and perhaps Hibbert's future with the Pacers, too. This is Indiana's championship time, and the stakes are immense.

Bird made two significant deals to fortify this title run – Turner for Danny Granger, and the signing of Andrew Bynum – and those haven't worked for him. Bynum could be done for the season with his knee problems, and perhaps everyone underestimated how much Granger had left in him, and how awkwardly Turner would fit into the Pacers.

The Pacers let go of a free agent-to-be they wouldn't have re-signed for a young, former No. 2 overall pick whom they hoped they could re-sign to a long-term deal.

"I'm just trying to make the right plays here," Turner told Yahoo Sports. "Some nights I get two shots, some nights I get 10 or 12. I'm trying to get acclimated."

Turner had one shot and just 11 minutes in Game 2, but the Pacers won and that lifted a burden off everyone in the locker room. Turner insisted "nothing happened" with Stephenson in practice on Friday, but he's in a tough spot to cop to the truth. He doesn't want to be a disruption, but rather a solution. Turner's trying to fit into these Pacers, trying to prove he belongs on the court for a championship contender.

Yes, Turner's finding his way with these Pacers, and maybe that started on the eve of these NBA playoffs with a challenge of the Brooklyn kid who calls himself Born Ready. These things happen in the NBA, and eventually someone else will make a run at Lance Stephenson. For now, the Pacers understand: The rest of the way, they need to take some swings within these Eastern Conference playoffs. This is the Indiana Pacers' moment of truth, a championship-caliber roster that's out of time to flail punches into the Bankers Life Fieldhouse air.

It is time to play ball, time to grow up and, maybe most of all, time to honor the promise of a season that is too rich in possibility to lose fighting themselves.

-----

LINK: http://sports.yahoo.com/news/pacers...-take-swing-at-hawks-in-game-2-062419341.html

 

[Ohio]

What a fucking collapse, jesus.

Let me get Roy Hibbert though, he was a beast before they traded for Turner and picked up Bynum

 

[TinManJoshua]

It looks like Stephenson is the cause of the Pacers recent collapse. At least that's what I'm gathereing.

After the Woj article came out this morning I checked the Pacers forums to see what they had to say about it. A lot of surface issues were brought up like "let's blame Larry for getting rid of Granger and messing up the chemistry" or "let's blame Vogel for not policing his team" but after a while a Mod finally chimed in.

Basically talked about how Lance is the cause of the team's struggles. The team is Paul George's and everybody is content with that. David West. Roy Hibbert. George Hill. Everybody is fine with Paul being the man. Problem is with Stephenson getting more acclaim he wants to be the man and the leader of the team and it's causing upheaval and chemistry issues as players don't look at him as a leader. Here's the quote.



He's an admin on their forum so I take his word. Surprising stuff for sure but it makes sense when you think about it.

Edit: Another quote I pulled that leads me to believe the Pacers team has a problem with Lance.



Lance is trying to take over and people have a problem with it.

I absolutely trust unclebuck, but he's an admin, but not a real insider. We don't really have one. Our radio play-by-play guy Mark Boyle posts from time to time but he stays way too PC to leak anything juicy.

Stephenson has had something come out every year so far about him being in a scuffle or causing some sort of distraction in the locker room. I'm almost ready to let him walk. Boogie Cousins in a SG body.

 

[TinManJoshua]

Well that's not a tough decision. One of those two is good and one of them is bad.

The best decision is let Turner(makes Kyrie look like a lockdown defender I swear) walk, S&T Stephenson to some team that wants to be the 2009 Kings. Tyreke talent, Cousins attitude.

 

[Rich]

If we didn't already have a totally immature team, I'd be all for bringing Lance here.

Of course all of this goes away if they get back to the ECF. Chemistry issues, headaches and everything else will disappear.

 

[Walter White]

Turner doesn't really seem like a fighter either. So you know it is bad since it isn't even that type of typical player. I'm suprised David West hasn't knocked him out yet.