Trade Discussions - Pistons/Wolves/Cavs

[CleveRocks]

No way we give up Andy and the 4 for the 2 and a second rounder (even from the t-wolves), I could see Samardo, #4 and #32 as a possibility, but otherwise no. Here is the thing about the draft though. Suppose you do manage to nab the 2 spot, who do you take? Assuming Williams can actually play the 3, the team gets a lot better with Williams and Kanter in combination. We don't suck entirely at point guard and point guard is probably the deepest aspect of this draft. With a Williams/Kanter combo, you are an Iggy trade away from a pretty decent team. Davis-Sessions, Iguadala/gibson, Williams, AV JJ, Kanter

 

[sam_slam911]

Varejao has alot of value round the league, really peaked last year and just before he got injured, but GMs (even Kahn) must be worried about the fact he missed that amount of time this season.

I'm quite high on WIlliams, but agree Varejao plus the 4th pick might be a bit much, possibly if they added in a low pick also...

 

[Believeland-OH]

Baron Davis is only going to be on the team for another year and a half; unless the Cavs are unable to unload his contract at the trade deadline in 2012-13. This is fine if you think Sessions can the the starting PG of the future, but I just don't see him as a long term answer. Despite PG currently being our deepest position it won't be for much longer. Which is why Irving is likely not only BPA but also fits a need on the Cavs.

I'd rather have Irving/D. Williams or Irving/Kanter at #1/#2.

 

[Hydroponic3385]

No way we give up Andy and the 4 for the 2 and a second rounder (even from the t-wolves), I could see Samardo, #4 and #32 as a possibility, but otherwise no. Here is the thing about the draft though. Suppose you do manage to nab the 2 spot, who do you take? Assuming Williams can actually play the 3, the team gets a lot better with Williams and Kanter in combination. We don't suck entirely at point guard and point guard is probably the deepest aspect of this draft. With a Williams/Kanter combo, you are an Iggy trade away from a pretty decent team. Davis-Sessions, Iguadala/gibson, Williams, AV JJ, Kanter

The Cavs need to take the best players available, and assuming he clears all medical concerns, the BPA at #1 is Irving. The Cavs are not in any position to draft by position of need in the short term (such as passing on Irving due to having Davis/Sessions and needing a C and SF), especially since neither PG resembles anything close to a long term solution (Davis is here for 1-2 years to be a mentor and veteran presence, while Sessions should never be a starting PG for a legitimate team). You draft Irving, the best big man available (since the BPA at #2 or #4 will be a big anyways in Williams, Kanter, or Valanciunas), and take the BPA in next year's draft (which, at this point, is in all likelihood a SF/wing anyway). So we'll likely fill up the PG, wing, and PF/C holes anyway after 2 drafts with this BPA strategy.

I want the Cavs to base their draft picks on making this team as strong as possible in the long term, not the short term. If you draft by position of need to benefit in the short-term, it can be a double whammy - you don't get the BPA, and you likely lower your 2012 draft pick. I'm not against having a much improved, winning team - but it shouldn't be our aim to win now at the expense of our future. It should be our aim to get the best talent possible for the future.

 

[Triumph36]

No way we give up Andy and the 4 for the 2 and a second rounder (even from the t-wolves), I could see Samardo, #4 and #32 as a possibility, but otherwise no. Here is the thing about the draft though. Suppose you do manage to nab the 2 spot, who do you take? Assuming Williams can actually play the 3, the team gets a lot better with Williams and Kanter in combination. We don't suck entirely at point guard and point guard is probably the deepest aspect of this draft. With a Williams/Kanter combo, you are an Iggy trade away from a pretty decent team. Davis-Sessions, Iguadala/gibson, Williams, AV JJ, Kanter

yeah that's not close for MIN though

I'd really prefer to trade AV plus any non-#4 filler for #2. Either that, or to Boston for JON and #25/LAC 2012.

 

[Zone]

yeah that's not close for MIN though

I'd really prefer to trade AV plus any non-#4 filler for #2. Either that, or to Boston for JON and #25/LAC 2012.

I'm not sure I see the logic in that for the Celtics. Right now, they're set to have a healthy amount of cap room in 2012-13 (even if there's a $45m hardcap, they'd currently have $18m of room). Add in a prime Rondo, what should be a decent pick with the LAC #1, Avery Bradley, #25, their own picks, etc. and it seems they're likely headed for one last run in 2011-12 before they go full re-tool/build.
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Has anyone, in this illustrious 62 page thread, considered that we're just in these talks to get a better handle of what the T-Wolves are looking to do?

 

[MattyIce8]

I dont know how reliable this is, but Bruce Drennen is saying on All bets are Off, that if Kanter is off the board, and the contract situation with Valanciunas isn't settled or they dont feel comfortable taking him they are gonna trade down. He "claims" that this is a legitmitate rumor from "his" sources that they will trade down to 10-14 to pick Marshon Brooks. While i dont believe the rumor, i think that the interest in Brooks is legitimate. He is probably the person that the Cavs are interested in trading back into the 10-20 range.

Sorry i didnt really know where to post this. If it needs to be moved thats fine.

 

[sailfish]

I dont know how reliable this is, but Bruce Drennen is saying on All bets are Off, that if Kanter is off the board, and the contract situation with Valanciunas isn't settled or they dont feel comfortable taking him they are gonna trade down. He "claims" that this is a legitmitate rumor from "his" sources that they will trade down to 10-14 to pick Marshon Brooks. While i dont believe the rumor, i think that the interest in Brooks is legitimate. He is probably the person that the Cavs are interested in trading back into the 10-20 range.

Sorry i didnt really know where to post this. If it needs to be moved thats fine.

I'm not necessarily buying the Brooks part, but it does seem that alot of guys are in play for that #4 pick:

4 C
Enes Kanter
Kentucky
Fr. 6-11 259
The dominoes will be officially falling by this point, and we'll see if I have them heading in the right direction. I've been told the Cavs will likely take Kanter if Knight indeed goes to Utah (as opposed to Kanter), but sources say Lithuanian big man Jonas Valanciunas is also in the mix. Making matters even more complicated, one source says Vesely is getting a significant amount of support.

Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/sam_amick/06/14/mock.draft.3/index.html#ixzz1PICOZuKr

So, it's Kanter or Valanciunas or Vesely or.....
It's possible the Cavaliers could trade down to the 8-14 range and still get Valanciunas, Vesely, or Biyombo. How about this possibility:

Cavaliers' #4 and #32 picks for Detroit's #8 pick, Richard Hamilton, and a 2012 1st round pick (top 3 protected). That would actually be two separate deals, one involving Hamilton for the TPE and the other would be a swap of picks.

 

[MattyIce8]

I'm not necessarily buying the Brooks part, but it does seem that alot of guys are in play for that #4 pick:



So, it's Kanter or Valanciunas or Vesely or.....
It's possible the Cavaliers could trade down to the 8-14 range and still get Valanciunas, Vesely, or Biyombo. How about this possibility:

Cavaliers' #4 and #32 picks for Detroit's #8 pick, Richard Hamilton, and a 2012 1st round pick (top 3 protected). That would actually be two separate deals, one involving Hamilton for the TPE and the other would be a swap of picks.

Im liking that deal for the 2012 pick, but I can't imagine Detroit giving that pick away in any deal

 

[JawJuttinAsasin]

no one wants Varejao as their starting center...Cleveland fans overrate his abilities. anyone else in the league views him as a backup at best.

I browse a few other boards and it actually seems that Varejao is in lesser regard on this board.

 

[Chris]

I browse a few other boards and it actually seems that Varejao is in lesser regard on this board.

I find that hard to believe. Seems everywhere I go people talk shit on the guy.

 

[Noonan]

Tweets from local T-Wolves reporter:

DarrenWolfson Darren Wolfson
Will know more on Thurs. But don't think D. Williams plays here. RT @JJDacotah @DarrenWolfson today's estimate on % Wolves dealing pick?

DarrenWolfson Darren Wolfson
Wolves are being quiet. Do know they like Kanter, so watch Cle. & Wash. RT @ r_mack @DarrenWolfson Who would you expect to bring back for 2?

DarrenWolfson Darren Wolfson
Like it. Williams will go 2. Just a matter of does he later move? RT @docktora: @DarrenWolfson seen the mock? thoughts? http://bit.ly/k4A2Ao

DarrenWolfson Darren Wolfson
@docktora Leaks have not happened. My gut tells me that Williams is picked, & moved. But hard to 100% tell. They do like Kanter. #Twolves

 

[RonG]

I find that hard to believe. Seems everywhere I go people talk shit on the guy.

he his a player you love to have on your team, that is very easy to hate when your team is playing against them. However they all want him or his type.

 

[RDriesen]

Tweets from local T-Wolves reporter:

DarrenWolfson Darren Wolfson
Will know more on Thurs. But don't think D. Williams plays here. RT @JJDacotah @DarrenWolfson today's estimate on % Wolves dealing pick?

DarrenWolfson Darren Wolfson
Wolves are being quiet. Do know they like Kanter, so watch Cle. & Wash. RT @ r_mack @DarrenWolfson Who would you expect to bring back for 2?

DarrenWolfson Darren Wolfson
Like it. Williams will go 2. Just a matter of does he later move? RT @docktora: @DarrenWolfson seen the mock? thoughts? http://bit.ly/k4A2Ao

DarrenWolfson Darren Wolfson
@docktora Leaks have not happened. My gut tells me that Williams is picked, & moved. But hard to 100% tell. They do like Kanter. #Twolves

Would you guys trade the 4 to the Wizards for 6 and 18? We could then get Irving, Valanciunas, and Singleton/Brooks. Maybe even trade for another pick and get all 4.

 

[Triumph36]

I'm not sure I see the logic in that for the Celtics. Right now, they're set to have a healthy amount of cap room in 2012-13 (even if there's a $45m hardcap, they'd currently have $18m of room). Add in a prime Rondo, what should be a decent pick with the LAC #1, Avery Bradley, #25, their own picks, etc. and it seems they're likely headed for one last run in 2011-12 before they go full re-tool/build.

Eh. Are the elite players really going to go to a gutted C's team with Rondo, potentially a good player (LAC pick), and some borderline role players (Bradley, #25)? I don't really think so.

People really underestimate the C's IMO. They are still an elite team, especially in the East which is very top heavy. If you have AV for LAC 1st/JON (w/ maybe #25 and #32 or #54 involved too), then we buyout JON allowing him to return, they improve immensely for what could potentially be 2-3 more years of contention if they handle their vets right (limiting mins).

Doc + Danny seem to think there window isn't over yet, either. Getting a difference maker like AV for someone who isn't even on the team yet (LAC 2012) could be very attractive to them since it gets them even closer to a title.