Tristan Thompson: Initial Thoughts

[catfish]

Sounds like the cavs are starting down the road of the great human being blah blah blah. We want wins not saints.

 

[Loyal T]

Well, if you wanna look at things with the glass half full point of view (although i know i'm leaving myself open for a troll to come in w/the glass half empty), then you could say that the lockout will actually benefit TT and subsequently our first impression of him in a cavs uni. Here's why:

Most, if not all, players agree that the downtime in the summer is the best time to improve their games. They choose a certain aspect or two that they view as a weakness and try to develope it. It has been qouted several times that TT is a very hard working and is retooling his jump shot/free throws. While the lockout continues, he will have that much more time to focus on getting better and won't have distractions such as interviews and exhibition games/summer league. Even though it would be nice for him to start developing some chemistry with Kyrie, they are already good friends and that shouldn't be a problem.

In short, after the lockout we could quite possibly see a beastier TT with less holes in his overall game. Glass half full right?

 

[The Voice]

Sounds like the cavs are starting down the road of the great human being blah blah blah. We want wins not saints.

Did you ever think their could be a correlation between the two? Just because they're nice off the court, doesn't mean they're nice on it.

Well, if you wanna look at things with the glass half full point of view (although i know i'm leaving myself open for a troll to come in w/the glass half empty), then you could say that the lockout will actually benefit TT and subsequently our first impression of him in a cavs uni. Here's why:

Most, if not all, players agree that the downtime in the summer is the best time to improve their games. They choose a certain aspect or two that they view as a weakness and try to develope it. It has been qouted several times that TT is a very hard working and is retooling his jump shot/free throws. While the lockout continues, he will have that much more time to focus on getting better and won't have distractions such as interviews and exhibition games/summer league. Even though it would be nice for him to start developing some chemistry with Kyrie, they are already good friends and that shouldn't be a problem.

In short, after the lockout we could quite possibly see a beastier TT with less holes in his overall game. Glass half full right?

He's working with Paul Silas last I heard.

 

[Jon]

It's basketball not rocket science. Anybody who watches game tape and isn't in the troll category of posters should be able to give a decent opinion on a player. I just don't think most of us have the time to do this sort of thing: his age is a plus with regards to this as I certainly don't have time to do that sort of thing as an old fart.

It's not rocket science, but there is a lot of technique involved in basketball, and either the guy has the "coach's eye" for spotting that sort of thing or not. His approach and commentary do seem solid, I'm just not sure it should be considered expert.

 

[Pioneer10]

It's not rocket science, but there is a lot of technique involved in basketball, and either the guy has the "coach's eye" for spotting that sort of thing or not. His approach and commentary do seem solid, I'm just not sure it should be considered expert.

I don't think anyone should be considered expert with regards to player evaluation: you see what they write and see what the evidence is. After seeing numerous front office make dumb decisions throughout the years and guys like Chad Ford blow it with guys like Darko, title and age makes little difference either. You commented about his age being some sort of negative while I consider his commentary worthwhile because it matches up with his footage and stats of the player. With your posting, you tend to have an "authoritarian streak" as you almost always will defend the front office/coaching staff (i.e. your support of Mike Brown thru the year, the Tristan Thompson) with little criticism for guys like Paxson for deals like Jiri Welsch etc. My guess is you have faith that since they do this for a living and would have access to things we don't (player interviews, one on one sessions, practice time) that provide them an edge. This is a reasonable intuition but I simply don't share the same level of trust as this sort of access hasn't IMO hasn't led GM's as an aggregate to make sound decisions over what the conventional wisdom would be.

 

[Jon]

You've never heard me yell and scream about Paxson because there's no sense jumping on the corpse of a dead horse, but there's no question in retrospect that his choices not only failed but harmed the future of the franchise. He made a mistake in his evaluation of Jiri and Sasha - and gave up too much for them, but in terms of assets .. Jira was a 16th pick in the draft, and Sasha was a 19th pick. So Paxon felt like he was getting an advance on his draft pick and getting a player with more experience to boot. His mistake was thinking that they'd do something for us that they couldn't do for Boston or Utah. Jiri in particular was going through some sort of a career melt-down, and rather then getting his act together in Cleveland, it got much worse.

I do support most of Ferry's moves, because I thought they made sense at the time, but I've also been critical of his lack of pursuit of defensive players (if not 2-way players), and that he never even tried to bring in a decent PG with the intent of forcing the ball out of James's hands.

I wouldn't say I show blind trust for authority, but like you said I do respect the reality that there are things Chris Grant knows about a situation that I will never know. One can scream about the inconsistencies in a decision, but I've discovered that examining them more closely, generally leads me a lot closer to what's really going on. You might remember I took a lot of flack for insisting that something must have gone down for MB to snub Z on the night he was supposed to break the games played record - and as we actually got more in to it some things leaked out (that were quickly deleted) that confirmed that in fact things did go down that might explain if not excuse what happened. Was it my blind love for all things Mike Brown that made me question it? No, I admire Z just as much. But what happened was out of character for both individuals, so it was just obvious that something unfortunate went down.

My issue with Pruitti is that his web site and connections to ESPN seem to lend him more credibility then he actually has, so I think that's worth pointing out. Is he a young up and comer with a lot to contribute? He may very well be. Or he could be just another guy with a blog.

If you take all of this stuff with a grain of salt no matter who it comes from ... good!

 

[Bux42]

While I'd love to be seeing Kyrie and Tristan playing summer league games for us, and have them working with the team right now instead of this stupid and incredibly selfish lockout...the extra time off could ensure Kyrie's toe injury can truly heal 100% before coming back full go, and like another poster said, Tristan can spend more time working to develop more of an offensive game than he has shown thus far.

 

[The Process God]

While I'd love to be seeing Kyrie and Tristan playing summer league games for us, and have them working with the team right now instead of this stupid and incredibly selfish lockout...the extra time off could ensure Kyrie's toe injury can truly heal 100% before coming back full go, and like another poster said, Tristan can spend more time working to develop more of an offensive game than he has shown thus far.

That's a good outlook! I hope that we get to see some videos of them in practice before the season starts so we can see how they're progressing, and it would help keep us sane while the lockout continues. Offseason is typically the time to improve body composition, let injuries heal, work on skills, and become stronger and faster. Here's to hoping that we see an even more athletic, skilled and mature Kyrie and TT when the season comes.

 

[The Voice]

I don't think anyone should be considered expert with regards to player evaluation: you see what they write and see what the evidence is. After seeing numerous front office make dumb decisions throughout the years and guys like Chad Ford blow it with guys like Darko, title and age makes little difference either. You commented about his age being some sort of negative while I consider his commentary worthwhile because it matches up with his footage and stats of the player. With your posting, you tend to have an "authoritarian streak" as you almost always will defend the front office/coaching staff (i.e. your support of Mike Brown thru the year, the Tristan Thompson) with little criticism for guys like Paxson for deals like Jiri Welsch etc. My guess is you have faith that since they do this for a living and would have access to things we don't (player interviews, one on one sessions, practice time) that provide them an edge. This is a reasonable intuition but I simply don't share the same level of trust as this sort of access hasn't IMO hasn't led GM's as an aggregate to make sound decisions over what the conventional wisdom would be.

Are we seriously comparing the Cavs drafting a guy a couple spots higher than so called experts predicted to trading for Jiri Welsch?

 

[CPK]

Are we seriously comparing the Cavs drafting a guy a couple spots higher than so called experts predicted to trading for Jiri Welsch?

NBA & NFL locked out. It. Is. That. Dead. (Sadly)

 

[Pioneer10]

Are we seriously comparing the Cavs drafting a guy a couple spots higher than so called experts predicted to trading for Jiri Welsch?

I in was no way comparing the two and frankly I'm baffled how reading that you would come out and suggest that I was. Any fair reading of the post and this associated thread would note that I was having a conversation with JonfromVA about how his thinking works. While others tend to get frustrated with him for being persistent and trying to being too hard to be contrarian, I was simply making a point that he tends to defend the actual decision makers for the Cavs more often that not. As I stated I don't think that is unreasonable even if I don't always agree with it and with regards to the specific examples I brought up, jon actually does note for a variety of reasons his posting follows the pattern I pointed out.

FYI: with my own thoughts. I think Mike Brown deserved criticism for some things (lack of creativity with sub pattern compared to someone like Carlisle) bud didn't get enough credit for other things (not overplaying JJ who was terrible on defense, defensive improvement overall). I'd have clearly preferred Jonas but overall don't mind having TnT and the overall usage of JJ+4th pick to get TnT, Casspi, and likely future first rounder is good but not great value. I hate Paxson and think he should be burned in effigy the start of every season.

 

[CleveRocks]

Sign me up for Paxson burning...

I find it interesting that the same guys who are disappointed with what we got for Hickson are also disappointed with the Thompson pick. JJ was picked ahead of his projections, and as it turned out performed better than projected, so in terms of spotting undervalued power forward talent, the Cavs in particular have a good track record. Remember we got Samuels for free, which means we were the only team to recognize his potential. So if they decided Samuels value was a non draft signee,their evaluation of Thompson must be quite a bit higher. At the end of the day, it is still a crap shoot. A knee injury, a drug problem, or simple attitude shift can ruin even a number one pick, but I think it is entirely reasonable to give the FO some time on this pick before calling them out...

 

[Douglar]

JJ was picked ahead of his projections, and as it turned out performed better than projected, so in terms of spotting undervalued power forward talent, the Cavs in particular have a good track record.

That's a pretty good point. The JJ Hickson pick was met with a lot of dismay on this message board because he wasn't what people expected, was undersized for his position, and Kosta Koufos was still on the board. JJ ended up playing better than Koufos and at least 1/3 the guys picked ahead of him in 2008. If T-Tom can do the same, there won't be any complaints.

The Cavs were able to turn JJ (an 19th pick) for what is likely going to be a better than 19th pick in a future draft, a serviceable #23 pick from a recent draft + time served. It wasn't a home run trade, but it was an improvement. If the Cavs were able to get that kind of return on every draft pick over the last 6 years, they'd have a lot of talent on the team right now.

 

[Jon]

I suppose the Jonas+Hickson supporters think we've taken a step backwards by swapping PFs, adding a mediocre SF, and a pick that may or may not amount to anything; when we could have kept what we had and potentially solidified our center position.

But this gets back to my side discussion with Pioneer ... that when a GM makes a moves like these, my assumption is that there's a sub-text to them, something going on. That the Cavs just don't see JJ ever turning the corner and becoming a winning PF, that Casspi fits the sort of player we want on the team, that Tristan will naturally give us all the little things we wanted out of JJ while developing in other areas, but perhaps most importantly that while Jonas may turn out to be a solid C in the league (don't kill Grant if that happens) the risks are simply too high compared to his natural talent to consider him a future franchise C.

Beyond upside, fit is important too. We need guys who can run the court and finish. We want guys who'll be able to grasp and execute the offense. We want guys who are willing passers. We want guys who can defend multiple positions. etc etc

I think it's also worth mentioning that to this franchise, Anderson Varejao, is not a throw away player. He's not going to get moved for a package like JJ got, and he may not be moved at all. He's already much of what we want in our C (except durability) and Tristan if anything gives us some protection here - because what we love is the activity/mobility, eye for the ball, ability to finish around the rim, ability to contest shots in the paint or defend a play all the way out to the 3pt line.

Having two players who can give us that will help a lot when one is off the court or hurt.

 

[Douglar]

I think it's also worth mentioning that to this franchise, Anderson Varejao, is not a throw away player. He's not going to get moved for a package like JJ got, and he may not be moved at all. He's already much of what we want in our C (except durability) and Tristan if anything gives us some protection here - because what we love is the activity/mobility, eye for the ball, ability to finish around the rim, ability to contest shots in the paint or defend a play all the way out to the 3pt line.

Yes Varejao is a really nice player, and yes he fills a team need right now, but the reason Varejao was not going to get traded this spring was because he was injured for most of last season. He's got to show he's healthy again before the Cavs would get any decent offers. Once Andy gets healthy, some team that wants to win playoff games in the next two years is going to make the Cavs an offer that will be pretty tough to refuse. And that offer might not be any better than the package that the Cavs got for JJ Hickson.

I'd miss him, but Varejao wouldn't be too unhappy because he'd be on a contender, he'd get his trade kicker, and odds are he'd go someplace warmer, which is something that he'd like.