W Cleveland 105 Toronto 93

[NarlCavs]

Z was on Bosh at times but it appeared to me that Bosh was mainly defended by other Cavs in the 2nd half.
Z isn't going to stay with quick athletic F's. It has to be a team effort and the team D isn't there yet.
It doesn't matter, the Cavs got the win.

 

[cdt]

I love Bosh seriously lets make a run at this cat when his deal is up...anywho...

I didn't think about saying Who? Mike James but now that you mention it, It's pretty funny.

Z has no offensive game outside of putbacks this season, he left his game in one of his offseason vacations...cuz he didn't work on anything in his game over the season and it's showing.

Larry will warm up he is trying to learn when he can take his jumpers and you can tell he is hesitant releasing...when he knows when to take them and everything he will be A-OK plus his finger is still buggin em you can tell.

Gooden does best when he doesn't try to do everything. Try to play defense the best you can grab the loose boards and make the easy scraps you get, there are 4 guys wearing the same jersey as you just do your best to help them out and you're good.

As for the handsome one and d money it's so refreshing having these cats off the bench to come in with the 2nd unit and play well. I used to be so bummed when LeBron would come out of the game I'd say well here is a 10 run in 5 minutes he will have to dig us out. It's not like that anymore, I want Gooden coming off the bench though, He is AS good a rebounder as Gooden better defender and a better shooter.

Good win the other 2 losses were expected..first 2 away from the friendly confines against the best team in the NBA and another western conference playoff team. No worries. We need to take 5 of 7 of these at the Q though or more

 

[Glen Infante]

I love Bosh seriously lets make a run at this cat when his deal is up...anywho...

Chris is Toronto's franchise player. They will give him the max contract when his time comes. No way they let that boy go. They are going to build around him. Pipe dream.


Anyways. I missed the majority of this game. But it felt good to come home during the 4th quarter and seeing a double digit lead.

 

[cdt]

Idk...they drafted 2 bigs, they are a very bad team. Their GM is a blubbering idiot, their coach isn't the friendliest guy and IDK yeah pipe dream

 

[Glen Infante]

I have no idea why they drafted two bigs. When I seen the draft, I was almost certain that they were going to go after a pg. Villi isn't a bad player, but he is not Chris Bosh. And whats up with his non eyebrows??

 

[Wine and Gold]

Rsponses to things mentioned this thread ....re: the defensive effort on Bosh ...unfair to blame any one player for him going off, when the responsibility lies in a team effort to stop any offensive interior player. The blame simply goes to an interior defense that isn't ready for primetime. Way too often a player's defense is judged by how the player opposite him scores ...especially the interior players.

Most noteworthy is that in this defense, it is based on off the ball player's anticipation and reaction ..and we aren't close to having this aspect down ....but surprised that nobody mentioned how much BETTER we did play defense within the team concept tonight.

This WAS CLEARLY our best defensive effort of the season ...no other game have we been even remotely successful as we were tonight.

Most noteworthy players as far as 'getting it' defensively were Larry Hughes #1 ....he had an excellent game on both ends ...the more I see him the better I like his game. He does the quiet things that winning teams need certain players to do. Unlike Lebron ...on defense his head is always on a swivel ...never gets locked in and lost ..has a keen sense for the entire floor and where the intent of the offensive play is centered... if all our players had his defensive sense we's be in great shape.

Z actually DOES have an excelent idea of where to be and what to do ..he's just physically limited. BUT, when this team "gets it" defensively I truly believe he WILL work fine in this defense. It's just gonna take time to get these guys all on the same page.

Very confused about this boards negativity towards Eric Snow ...he's a valuable commodity on this team ...plays solid, if not spectacular defense ...and reads things very well both offensively and defensively. He doesn't force himself on the game, but plays his role within the system. With certain player mixes he fits extemely well on this team, and if you notice ...

Mike Brown IS finding which combinations he works best with ...as with Damon Jones. He's made some subtle changes in his rotation that center on keeping certain players with Snow. I like how he's slowly tweaking the rotation to use the right combinations with certain players with more limitations like Z, Snow, and Jones.

I think Alan Henderson will end up having a more extended role on this team ...he's of definite value, especially early on in giving the younger players a 'how to' clinic on how this defense should be played. It would actually be of benefit to find a game where you could sit Drew Gooden and start Alan Henderson in his place and tell Gooden to just study Alan Henderson on defense.

As a coach I do this at times for guys that just don't 'get it' with verbal communications from coaches. But, Gooden..thoughimproved and trying ...still gets lost in similar manners to how Lebron does. Gets involved with his one on one assignment and doesn't yet notice the subtle things a guy like Larry Hughes does ...because Larry Hughes is always so alert ...and like I said prior ...always has his head on a swivel knowing where every man is at all times.

...Drew and Lebron have very little natural defensive instinct at this point in their development ....but would be very wise to step back and study the Larry Hughes's and Alan Henderson's on this team and learn from them ...they could take their games to an entirely different level if they would at some point 'get it' ...but I'm not overly optimistic that it's going to happen that quickly ...but it can sometimes ..sometimes a mental logjam can be broken with a player and they can all the sudden awaken ..I've seen it happen.

Anyway ,.,. from a defensive standpoint we had much better play tonight ..something to build on. We'll really be tested by Seattle ..they can turn an unorganized defense like ours inside out ...it could be an ugly learning experience coming up ...but one that is needed.

We're gonna take some needed lumps from good offensive teams b4 we gradually start to build our defensive capabilities ...but, as fans you have to be patient and realize that team defense is a process

....30 some games in we'll have an identity with our defense ...maybe not great at that point, but far far better than where we are at now. Team defense ...especially with this defense we have on this team ...only gets better through repitition ...and with this repitition comes recognition from the players ..and then it all flows from there ...but, it doesn't happen in one game 5 games or ten games ....it's a gradual building process. Be patient.

But, trust me ...as limited as certain players are dfensively ...notably Z ...with this defense he will be just fine once the others around him know their assignments ...I've always felt from a knowledge standpoint Z has always gotten it ...but his game suffers most when the players around him that he relies on for support don't know THEIR assignments.

Z won't be a defensive liability once this team rounds into form ...trust me on this.

 

[PIP]

Impossible to read that last post..Sorry bro'

 

[LyXo]

I wasn't blaming anyone. I'm just trying to point out what I saw. I'm just not trying to get caught up in the winning haze and see what actually happened on the court. And there is truth to what I see. And if we go against higher calibur teams, these things need to change if we want to win. We cannot afford to have Eric Snow think he's Tony Parker out there and jack up ill-advised shots. We can't afford to have Z not challenge shots. It was the times when Bosh was outside of the paint, shooting 15-18 footers, when he was essentially open, unchallenged and was Z's assignment in the "team system." We need Drew Gooden to step up on man-man D so that Z doesn't have to guard these quicker, athletic types. But if Z is guarding him, I expect him to challenge the shot. That's all.

 

[ChicagoCavFan]

Wine & Gold....you gotta break that up with paragraphs. Hurts the eyes.

 

[G-MAN]

a few takes from what i saw. i saw alot of long arm, one hand rebounds. z, marshall, gooden to be specific. maybe it was because we had a solid height advantage on the raptors. z has been doing it all season.

donyell is a stud. not just a shooter. he does so many things on the floor. for 4 mill per he's the steal of the off season.

drew has a less of the bullshit stuff going on and just playing ball. i like it. he still makes mistakes on rotations but so has everybody else early this season.

the one thing i have not liked is "no love" on the floor. lebron, if he wants to be the leader, needs to recognize plays (even small ones) by others that win ball games. drew had a couple nice plays in a row and nobody gave him any love. it has happened many times this season. lebron quit thinking about your marvelous dunk and give the love to passer that gave it to you.

luke got in early and was stuck with a tough matchup for him in jalen rose. you can't blame him for giving up points to him. i think lukes passing and toughness separates him from sasha. once luke gets comfortable on the floor his range will show up. i hope brown keeps going to him for minutes.

overall the team looked better because they were looking to take it to the hoop and not settling for threes (more of a midrange game). the threes will come ecspecially when the feet are set and not these jacks on the break. marshall and jones had a total of three balls that were in and came out.

 

[Karma]

Impossible to read that last post..Sorry bro'

Not at all. The points came out clearer then anything I have read in a long time. Great post Wine and Gold.

 

[PIP]

Not at all. The points came out clearer then anything I have read in a long time. Great post Wine and Gold.

Moreso due to the fact it had to be in compliance with your beliefs (one of the few I might add )... If it was just as long and stated several things that the consensus around here agrees with, you would not have given it a second thought...

A very stubborn man. :chuckles:

 

[Karma]

Moreso due to the fact it had to be in compliance with your beliefs (one of the few I might add )... If it was just as long and stated several things that the consensus around here agrees with, you would not have given it a second thought...

A very stubborn man. :chuckles:

A post does not have to be in compliance with my opinions to be a great post. I have often started my posts debating with you with "great points" or whatever. I am very flexible with my opinions. My prefernces of Snow and Sasha over Jones and Jackson has always stated that if my non preference is doing what we require, then play them. Jones has yet to do that, and Jackson has taken some steps to winning me over for playing time. Stubborn? No way.

 

[CavsTalk]

Here is my 2 cents... You always know where Karma stands on a particular issue for example:
*Snow should start over Jones, because of a defense and maintains the flow of the game.
*Sasha is more experienced and overall a better player than Luke and therefore, should be allotted more minutes.

Karma has also stated as of yesterday that Jones played within himself by not forcing up to many ill-advised shots. This also holds true for Luke when he said he was mistaken and saw a better performance from Luke than in other outings.

Personally I disagree with Karma on the Sasha issue, but at least I know where he stands.
Lepip I probably side more with you when it comes to playing time issues for certain players.

How’s that for walking the fence? :chuckles:

 

[Karma]

Thankyou CavsTalk. We all have varying reasons for opinions. I have tried to show that I am flexible enough if proven to change my mind on certain issues. Just like with Luke putting up a nice show in Toronto to prove he should see minutes. Until then, to me he had done nothing to take minutes from Sasha. Jones has yet to prove himself ready to lead this team from the point position.

I hold no grudges for people having differing opinions. I enjoy constructive debate. I do though get annoyed when people put blinkers on with certain players.