Why give up on Gooden so soon?

[Syx Slim]

Drew Gooden is not as bad as everyone thinks and a lot of people want to count him out already. I think we need to be more patient this is still Drew Gooden's 4th season. This is his 3rd team in 4 seasons and he's never had the same coach. Every player does not develop at the same rate. If we were willing to wait on Z who I think is overpaid and overrated, why can't we wait on this kid. Him and LeBron have chemistry why mess that up. If we trade him we will only be showing impatient. The problems Drew has on the court can be easily change with proper coaching. He's not a bad player he 's young. Young players make mistakes. I think we should give Drew another season evaluate his performance and then decide to keep him or let him go. Besides Boston got rid of Chauncey Billups they said he would never be the player they drafted now they sittin somewhere sick along with Denver because he's won a Ship and almost won another one this year. Neither team has come close to winning more than one playoff series. Patience is a virtue.

 

[The Disector]

With the signing of Ilgauskas, Gooden really should be replaced with a rebound/defender attitude type of player.

Drew is not a brand new NBA player and he still makes way to many mistakes to be counted on as a starter for an NBA team.
Bad shots, bad turnovers, and bad decisions all lead to more losses and Drew has shown a propensity for all of the above.

The Cavs have enough scorer mentality player's in the starting lineup and with what the Cav's have at the moment they may actully be better off starting Anderson if they don't make any move's to pick anyone else up.

 

[Troy Wingate]

Gooden does make bad decisions on the court, and we should look at acquiring Reggie Evans, but Goods is not bad enough for me to want him out of Cleveland. The guy was still getting 14/10 a game, basically filled in Boozer's shoes, and once he matures, he could be a very good player in this league. Add that he needs to seriously bulk up.

 

[Karma]

Drew Gooden is not as bad as everyone thinks and a lot of people want to count him out already. I think we need to be more patient this is still Drew Gooden's 4th season. This is his 3rd team in 4 seasons and he's never had the same coach. Every player does not develop at the same rate.

Nobody has given up on Drew Gooden. Everybody here it seems respects his talents and enthusiasm he brings. We have made steps to take this team to the next level and surrounding our core players of James, Hughes and Ilgauskas with the right role players. Drew does not quite fit this way of thinking. He is a scorer on a team lacking a defender. This is not bagging the guy, just stating that he is not the ideal player for this franchise as his skill set does not match what is wanted.

If we were willing to wait on Z who I think is overpaid and overrated, why can't we wait on this kid.

You can argue all day as to whether we overpaid for Ilgauskas but you will only have to look at contracts given to player like Foyle, Dalembert, Curry, Boozer, Okur, etc to see what we paid was completely fair. To call Ilgauskas overated makes me want to disregard your total post, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. In saying that, your comments are laughable on that subject.

Him and LeBron have chemistry why mess that up.

LeBron and Drew Gooden share the love to run and gun with a bit of showtime. This is a fun thing to watch although Drews skills are quite up with James as it shows when another flick pass goes out of bounds. Drew does share LeBron's defensive abilities though. :thumbdown

If we trade him we will only be showing impatient. The problems Drew has on the court can be easily change with proper coaching. He's not a bad player he 's young. Young players make mistakes. I think we should give Drew another season evaluate his performance and then decide to keep him or let him go. Besides Boston got rid of Chauncey Billups they said he would never be the player they drafted now they sittin somewhere sick along with Denver because he's won a Ship and almost won another one this year. Neither team has come close to winning more than one playoff series. Patience is a virtue.

I am only for trading Gooden, if we find the right guy. If we do not, I am fully content with keeping Drew as he does have some scope for improvement on defense. menatlly though he is limited, but maybe under Browns leadership he may see the light.

 

[CleveRocks]

Whatever Goobers drawbacks, I still prefer him to other options. And Yeah he has pfense, but with him on the floor with four other offensive players it will be very tough to figure out who to doulble team..

 

[TruBuckeye22]

my big problem with Gooden is when things don't go his way he acts like a 4 year old. he puts like a kid who's parents told him to go to his room. i don't think this is the kind of attitude that a team trying to take the next step needs.

as far as waiting for him to improve i think he is what he is. to me Gooden has maxed out his NBA potential. he is not a bad player but if you sit back and wait for him to take his game to another level 4 years later you will be scratching your head and still waiting.

 

[LyXo]

my big problem with Gooden is when things don't go his way he acts like a 4 year old. he puts like a kid who's parents told him to go to his room. i don't think this is the kind of attitude that a team trying to take the next step needs.

Unfortunately for Gooden, there was a coach who wanted to be that mean father figure to further perpetuate this. A coach who treats his players like they're still in high school. This is the NBA, coaches should be more professional than Paul Silas. Gooden suffered because of him.

 

[TJ_4_CV31]

Don't blame Silas. He's actually won something. To many times young, immature players with large bank accounts don't want to listen to what's good for them. Gooden is what he is. He has a low BBIQ like Tyson Chandler (shooting two's at the buzzer when you need a 3). He's talented, but you can't trust him in MEANINGFUL games when smarts and dicipline count.

The Caveliers will be best served starting Anderson "Caveman" Varejo at power forward as a defensive presence. Moving Gooden to the bench will give you some strength where you need it most (besides that troublesome pg position). Gooden could give you some offense in the second unit. A guy that can run around a play with the rest of the league's second tier players. You don't need all of your offense in the starting lineup.

 

[LyXo]

Don't blame Silas. He's actually won something. To many times young, immature players with large bank accounts don't want to listen to what's good for them. Gooden is what he is. He has a low BBIQ like Tyson Chandler (shooting two's at the buzzer when you need a 3). He's talented, but you can't trust him in MEANINGFUL games when smarts and dicipline count.

I'm not blaming Silas for Gooden's ineptitude. I'm blaming Silas for taking it too far, turning a solvable problem into a big issue. I blame him for making Gooden's mistakes look worse. I blame Silas for making Gooden feel less confident and more fearful on the court, as opposed to being more assertive and offering constructive criticism. I blame Silas for preventing Gooden from maturing.

But Silas was a good thing to happen to Gooden. Now that he's gone, it'll be time for reflection upon the season and lessons learned. That's another thing I blame Silas for actually. Direct confrontation, direct conflict. He forged close relationships with a certain number of players and dogged everyone else. McInnis made mistakes on defense all year, why didn't he get benched? Tractor always saw consistent minutes. Gooden would never learn anything if Silas was still coach. He was the curb to his development, and now I'm glad he's gone.

Now, moving on:

The Caveliers will be best served starting Anderson "Caveman" Varejo at power forward as a defensive presence. Moving Gooden to the bench will give you some strength where you need it most (besides that troublesome pg position). Gooden could give you some offense in the second unit. A guy that can run around a play with the rest of the league's second tier players. You don't need all of your offense in the starting lineup.

I agree wholeheartedly with this. Throw AV into the starting lineup. We have a solid 4 to complement him and hide his rookie mistakes. He has great help defense, grabs rebounds with as much tenacity as the best of them, exactly what we need out of the 4. Gooden will be best serving off the bench, where he'll be a scoring stud.

Some more points:
1. Just because AV starts doesn't mean AV will consume all minutes. He'll probably log about 25, both at the 5 backing up Z and the 4. It opens up the avenue for Drew coming in and playing 25 minutes at the 4. Drew wont' have to play out of position in this case: something that caused trouble in the past in Memphis and Orlando.

2. Remember: Who did you see in 4th quarter situations? Certainly not Drew Gooden at the power forward spot. It was either Tractor or AV. Something tells me that AV will learn from his mistakes quicker and make less significant ones. The only problem I see with AV with more minutes is more fouls. Which brings me to my next point

3. Respect. AV gets no respect with his defense. Gaining starter status, refs will look more into his game. Remember that game VS Detroit, last one that we lost? With about 2 minutes in the game, AV makes the cleanest block you could make VS McDyess. Oh no, that Brazillian rookie with the crazy hair couldn't have done that clean, not against McDyess, that guy has crazy hops. Call the foul. With respect, fouls will be called less, and his mistakes will dissapear, essentially making his defense better.

4. It's better for Drew Gooden: In the starting lineup, he'll be the 5th option. Might as well not even give him the ball at all. But he needs it. His main talents are scoring. All of those won't even be close to evident playing alongside the main 4. His numbers will most certainly decrease from his 14/9. But coming off the bench, he should accept his role and fit in well. He'll body up the 2nd stringers in the post. He'll be a candidate for the 6th man award. Can you say Antawn Jamison? Look at the contract he got. It won't be hard to convince Drew that he's better suited off the bench, as long as we can guarantee him 20+ minutes, which we will. He has the choice to be the big fish in the bowl off the bench. Or be that guy that never tapped his potential as a starter, has a bunch of question marks over his head still, even after being in the league for 4 years.

5. Missing spark? Whenever AV is on the floor, that's the fire. There is no need for a spark. You guys say that he brings instant energy when he's in. Why not start it out right? Besides, Gooden's scoring punch will be big off the bench as well.

So our squad would look like this:

1st:
C: Zydrunas Ilgauskas
PF: Anderson Varejao
SF: LeBron James
SG: Larry Hughes
PG: Sarunas Jasikevicius*

2nd:
C: Dale Davis*
PF: Drew Gooden / Jeff Varem*
SF: Ira Newble
SG: Luke Jackson / Sasha Pavlovic
PG: Eric Snow / Blake Stepp*

*Not signed, but hopefuls.

That's a pretty solid 2nd unit. I think it can rival many of the NBA's weaker starting lineups.

 

[PIP]

av needs to prove he can play for long stretches on the floor without getting into foul trouble..

 

[TJ_4_CV31]

Being named a starter would definitely give Varajo some credibility with the referees. The same thing happened with Gadzuric in Milwaukee. Being a starter counts.

 

[cavs-hughes]

I'm not blaming Silas for Gooden's ineptitude. I'm blaming Silas for taking it too far, turning a solvable problem into a big issue. I blame him for making Gooden's mistakes look worse. I blame Silas for making Gooden feel less confident and more fearful on the court, as opposed to being more assertive and offering constructive criticism. I blame Silas for preventing Gooden from maturing.

But Silas was a good thing to happen to Gooden. Now that he's gone, it'll be time for reflection upon the season and lessons learned. That's another thing I blame Silas for actually. Direct confrontation, direct conflict. He forged close relationships with a certain number of players and dogged everyone else. McInnis made mistakes on defense all year, why didn't he get benched? Tractor always saw consistent minutes. Gooden would never learn anything if Silas was still coach. He was the curb to his development, and now I'm glad he's gone.

Now, moving on:


I agree wholeheartedly with this. Throw AV into the starting lineup. We have a solid 4 to complement him and hide his rookie mistakes. He has great help defense, grabs rebounds with as much tenacity as the best of them, exactly what we need out of the 4. Gooden will be best serving off the bench, where he'll be a scoring stud.

Some more points:
1. Just because AV starts doesn't mean AV will consume all minutes. He'll probably log about 25, both at the 5 backing up Z and the 4. It opens up the avenue for Drew coming in and playing 25 minutes at the 4. Drew wont' have to play out of position in this case: something that caused trouble in the past in Memphis and Orlando.

2. Remember: Who did you see in 4th quarter situations? Certainly not Drew Gooden at the power forward spot. It was either Tractor or AV. Something tells me that AV will learn from his mistakes quicker and make less significant ones. The only problem I see with AV with more minutes is more fouls. Which brings me to my next point

3. Respect. AV gets no respect with his defense. Gaining starter status, refs will look more into his game. Remember that game VS Detroit, last one that we lost? With about 2 minutes in the game, AV makes the cleanest block you could make VS McDyess. Oh no, that Brazillian rookie with the crazy hair couldn't have done that clean, not against McDyess, that guy has crazy hops. Call the foul. With respect, fouls will be called less, and his mistakes will dissapear, essentially making his defense better.

4. It's better for Drew Gooden: In the starting lineup, he'll be the 5th option. Might as well not even give him the ball at all. But he needs it. His main talents are scoring. All of those won't even be close to evident playing alongside the main 4. His numbers will most certainly decrease from his 14/9. But coming off the bench, he should accept his role and fit in well. He'll body up the 2nd stringers in the post. He'll be a candidate for the 6th man award. Can you say Antawn Jamison? Look at the contract he got. It won't be hard to convince Drew that he's better suited off the bench, as long as we can guarantee him 20+ minutes, which we will. He has the choice to be the big fish in the bowl off the bench. Or be that guy that never tapped his potential as a starter, has a bunch of question marks over his head still, even after being in the league for 4 years.

5. Missing spark? Whenever AV is on the floor, that's the fire. There is no need for a spark. You guys say that he brings instant energy when he's in. Why not start it out right? Besides, Gooden's scoring punch will be big off the bench as well.

So our squad would look like this:

1st:
C: Zydrunas Ilgauskas
PF: Anderson Varejao
SF: LeBron James
SG: Larry Hughes
PG: Sarunas Jasikevicius*

2nd:
C: Dale Davis*
PF: Drew Gooden / Jeff Varem*
SF: Ira Newble
SG: Luke Jackson / Sasha Pavlovic
PG: Eric Snow / Blake Stepp*

*Not signed, but hopefuls.

That's a pretty solid 2nd unit. I think it can rival many of the NBA's weaker starting lineups.

your second unit would be

C: Dale Davis*
PF: Drew Gooden / Jeff Varem*
SF: Luke Jackson
SG: Ira Newble / Sasha / Luke Jackson
PG: Eric Snow / Blake Stepp*

ira isnt a SF, LJ is. but luke is also capable of playing SG.

 

[LyXo]

It's really a matter of semantics. Doesn't really matter what "position" it is, they all play the wing, but I get what you mean, I suppose. Ira, Luke, and Sasha all translate to G/F to me.

 

[aaronr]

yes, and with Lebron and Hughes starting and playing big minutes at small forward and shooting guard, there isn't much time left to be split three ways between Ira, Sasha and Luke. We're really redundant on the wing. Is there a back-up center out there who we could trade for Ira, Sasha or Luke?

 

[Pioneer10]

Maybe we should just move Lebron to PF and play Luke Jackson at the PG with Sasha at SG.

AV/Lebron/Hughes/Jackson/Sasha: run and gun baby. We could outdo the Suns although Lebron would have to stay downlow like Amare which I think he could do quite well