Hickson traded to Kings for Casspi and (protected) 1st Rd Pick

Jimmer is Eddie House with better handles

I was on a road trip when this trade went down and didn't want to comment until I read all 80+ pages. I didn't want write anything that has already been said.


Here's one thing I dislike: When people write the idea that Amare Stoudemire could have been a Cavalier if the Cavs were willing to trade Hickson. This is a simplistic way of looking at a very complex issue. From what I've been able to gather, the Cavs could have rented Amare Stoudemire for a run at the title if they let go of Hickson. At the end of that season, Stoudemire planned on leaving for New York regardless. That means the Cavs would have gone into the post-LeBron era without Hickson or Stoudemire.

There is little doubt that Hickson needed a change of scenery. He might end up a decent rotational bigman for Sacramento. Even if he ends up being Stromile Swift and never puts everything together, he will be a nice backup. The problem is mostly his contract. He seemed to expect teams to pay him for his potential. Smart NBA executives don't hand out longterm contracts for potential, they pay for results. Any Gm has to be confused regarding players in the last year of their contracts. Will they play enough this season to show any improvement?

Casspi, on the other hand, wasn't exactly the perfect employee in Sacramento either. Cavs fans should be a little concerned about his ability to accept a bench role at some point, just as Hickson drove me up a wall when he wouldn't produce coming off the bench a few years ago. The playing time will be there for now. The Cavs have a long time to see what he offers as a longterm piece before they have to enter contract talks. I won't jump into superlatives describing a player who lost his starting job to Donte Greene, but I will speak glowingly of the business side of this deal. The Cavs remain flexible through the extremely questionable labor negotiations to come.

In the grand scheme of things, how the Cavaliers draft in the next three or four offseasons has more to do with the franchises ability to get back on top than this trade. Someday this trade might be as big of a deal as Lamond Murray traded for Derek Anderson and Johnny Newman; a pair of bad teams swapping faulted players who don't amount to many playoff victories. Neither player is a finished product, however. The winner of this trade will only be known if one of these two young players can get all the cylinders to click into place defensively.

As for the draft pick, it would have been nice if the lottery protection ended in a guaranteed first rounder with no lottery protection in 2017. When the Cavs traded for Yogi Stewart, the franchise would have received a long awaited Toronto lottery pick if Paxson hadn't blown it on a crappy white guy who mimicked his style of play. I hope the Cavs find a good way to use all these upcoming "assets" in the draft. Between the LeBron trade, moving the #32 pick, and investments in European prospects, I could see them trading up in 2012.

Finally, let's examine this move using my patented GM cloning device. As we know, Jim Paxson blew several assets chasing a white shooting guard with a solid mid-range game to pair with LeBron James. After acquiring Jiri Welsch, Sasha Pavlovic, and Luke Jackson, his obsession destroyed him from the inside. Danny Ferry spent two seasons looking for a "stretch four" to rotate in at power forward. He gave Rob Kurtz a shot and then made the mistake of trading for Antwan Jamison's albatross contract and questionable knees and a kind disposition. In a sense, Jamison was the black Ferry. Now we come to Chris Grant, a tall skinny 6'10 guy with a master's degree and a history of overthinking the draft. Omri Casspi is a 6'9 white guy with a high basketball IQ. I'm getting nervous.

so this would be okay with you if casspi was black?

Tornicade said:

so this would be okay with you if casspi was black?

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"A word to the wise ain’t necessary, it is the stupid ones who need all the advice."
- Bill Cosby

Randolphkeys said:

"A word to the wise ain’t necessary, it is the stupid ones who need all the advice."
- Bill Cosby

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really whats wrong with getting basketball players with a high basketball IQ he also drafted two. Your nervous the team will be too smart on the court for its own good?

Tornicade said:

really whats wrong with getting basketball players with a high basketball IQ he also drafted two. Your nervous the team will be too smart on the court for its own good?

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The entire last paragraph of my post is a running joke on the forum, dating back about four years. And there is nothing as boring as explaining a joke.

Randolphkeys said:

The entire last paragraph of my post is a running joke on the forum, dating back about four years. And there is nothing as boring as explaining a joke.

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When you say that you think the Cavs will trade up, are you talking about trading up their own pick or the Kings' pick? I'd personally like to trade the Kings' pick along with some other assets to have 2 top 10 picks in 2012 or something close to 2 top 10.

Randolphkeys, I think there's a difference in a guy (JJ) who is so unmotivated that he gets benched when he clearly was one of, if not the best player on the team -- to a guy (Casspi) who got benched because...well, we're still not sure why exactly. There were so many reasons for Casspi to be a disgruntled employee by the end of his 2 year run in Sac (which I documented in previous posts in this thread), the most dysfunctional team/organization in the NBA (yes, over the past year, they topped the list over Minny and LAC). He wanted a chance to play and when he did play, he proved he could play - despite playing without good coaching and no on (or off) court team chemistry.

JJ had abosolutely no reason to be disgruntled - he was basically handled the mantle once Lebron left and it wasn't until one night in bed after their historic losing streak that he realized, oh, maybe I should start listening to the coach and play to win. And even then, he only showed glimpses and had difficulty sustaining his play for a full game.

Talent for talent, no question that JJ has more talent and potential than Casspi in this league. But I'd do this trade over again 1,000 times. And as far as the pick, we gotta assume that once Westphal is fired (which will be soon), they will hire someone that can come in and get this team together, and they will move a couple of their toxic players, and they will settle their ongoing conflict with Sac and either get a new arena in Sac or move to a new city...and with these changes (in the next 6 yrs) they will reach the playoffs with the talent they have, and we will thus add another 1st round pick when we're on the rise, something we never had to continue building during the Lebron years (thanks Pax!).

Hey guys...

Randolph didnt say that he blindly worships the ground that Chris Grant walks on. GET HIM!!!

guitarlifter said:

When you say that you think the Cavs will trade up, are you talking about trading up their own pick or the Kings' pick? I'd personally like to trade the Kings' pick along with some other assets to have 2 top 10 picks in 2012 or something close to 2 top 10.

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There is really no way of knowing right now. We don't know what the Cavs record will be next season, however I do have a feeling that they will be in the bottom ten records in the league. Irving and TT can be #1 and 2 in the ROY voting and I still don't see a team around them that can compete with the top half of the league. I just see all these low firsts and high second rounders coming to the Cavs, and I can only assume the franchise doesn't have room on the roster for all these young role players. They need to package two or three picks for a top pick or one young difference maker at some point.

Randolphkeys, I think there's a difference in a guy (JJ) who is so unmotivated that he gets benched when he clearly was one of, if not the best player on the team -- to a guy (Casspi) who got benched because...well, we're still not sure why exactly. There were so many reasons for Casspi to be a disgruntled employee by the end of his 2 year run in Sac (which I documented in previous posts in this thread), the most dysfunctional team/organization in the NBA (yes, over the past year, they topped the list over Minny and LAC). He wanted a chance to play and when he did play, he proved he could play - despite playing without good coaching and no on (or off) court team chemistry.

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He was benched because his team won 29% of its games. He was benched because in the 27 games he started, the Kings won four of them. You can argue that the players around him didn't use him effectively on the offensive end, but his defensive performance is accurately told in the win column. I think he has the tools to get better, but right now I'm looking at the results.

JJ had abosolutely no reason to be disgruntled - he was basically handled the mantle once Lebron left and it wasn't until one night in bed after their historic losing streak that he realized, oh, maybe I should start listening to the coach and play to win. And even then, he only showed glimpses and had difficulty sustaining his play for a full game.

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I was certainly not in favor of keeping Hickson. I don't think my posts suggests that I am upset he was traded. I do expect people to taper their expectations for Omri. He did destroy the Cavs in September last year, but that ended up being his best game of the first half of the season. That had more to do with the sorry state of Cleveland's swingmen than Omri's talents, sadly.

Talent for talent, no question that JJ has more talent and potential than Casspi in this league. But I'd do this trade over again 1,000 times. And as far as the pick, we gotta assume that once Westphal is fired (which will be soon), they will hire someone that can come in and get this team together, and they will move a couple of their toxic players, and they will settle their ongoing conflict with Sac and either get a new arena in Sac or move to a new city...and with these changes (in the next 6 yrs) they will reach the playoffs with the talent they have, and we will thus add another 1st round pick when we're on the rise, something we never had to continue building during the Lebron years (thanks Pax!).

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Sacramento seems to be in the same state of dysfunction Golden State was in the past five years, but without the steady fan support. It is a train wreck that I cannot turn away from.

Randolphkeys said:

He was benched because his team won 29% of its games. He was benched because in the 27 games he started, the Kings won four of them. You can argue that the players around him didn't use him effectively on the offensive end, but his defensive performance is accurately told in the win column. I think he has the tools to get better, but right now I'm looking at the results.

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Something to chew on...

When Casspi was on the court, the Kings outscored their opponent 43.1% of the time (the Kings won 29% of their games, and the only Kings player with a higher % was Garcia at 43.4%).

When JJ was on the court, the Cavs outscored their opponent 26.3% of the time (the Cavs won 23% of their games), and the only Cavs players with a lower % was Gee at 25.7% and Mo at 22.9% (technically Harangody and JJ were tied).

Which is not to say that Casspi is a + player, but he's not nearly as wretched as JJ.

JonFromVA said:

Something to chew on...

When Casspi was on the court, the Kings outscored their opponent 43.1% of the time (the Kings won 29% of their games, and the only Kings player with a higher % was Garcia at 43.4%).

When JJ was on the court, the Cavs outscored their opponent 26.3% of the time (the Cavs won 23% of their games), and the only Cavs players with a lower % was Gee at 25.7% and Mo at 22.9% (technically Harangody and JJ were tied).

Which is not to say that Casspi is a + player, but he's not nearly as wretched as JJ.

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Interesting statistic, even if it seems a little thin. I'd be curious to see those figures compared to more obvious contributors from other teams.

JonFromVA said:

Something to chew on...

When Casspi was on the court, the Kings outscored their opponent 43.1% of the time (the Kings won 29% of their games, and the only Kings player with a higher % was Garcia at 43.4%).

When JJ was on the court, the Cavs outscored their opponent 26.3% of the time (the Cavs won 23% of their games), and the only Cavs players with a lower % was Gee at 25.7% and Mo at 22.9% (technically Harangody and JJ were tied).

Which is not to say that Casspi is a + player, but he's not nearly as wretched as JJ.

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I had seen that statistic earlier in the thread. I want to believe that Casspi was right and the entire Sacramento organization was wrong. I want to believe that he was their best player and the idiot coaches didn't realize it. Somehow, that just doesn't add up for me.

If you want to talk statistics, let's look at his defense:

http://cleveland.sbnation.com/cleve...spi-cleveland-cavaliers-trade-scouting-report

Defense is another area where Casspi struggles, particularly in one-on-one situations. Synergy's data show opponents scored on Casspi 47.4 percent of the time in isolation settings, getting 1.011 points per play. Thus, Casspi ranks in just the 17th percentile of the entire NBA in that area.

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Knowing that Casspi was mysteriously dropped from the Kings rotation after January in both his rookie and second seasons, I think it is fair to question his defense. Finding a convoluted + / - percentage that doesn't account for how often he was benched, the opposition he faced, and the bottom line - wins - just doesn't sway me from my main thesis: Hickson had to go, Grant probably got the best deal he could for Hickson, and Cavs fans should curb their expectations with Casspi.

ZooCrewDude said:

Interesting statistic, even if it seems a little thin. I'd be curious to see those figures compared to more obvious contributors from other teams.

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The numbers say that Casspi has some defensive flaws, but they also say that he was the closest thing to a + player on the Kings.

It's a stark contrast to Hickson who almost no matter the situation keeps dragging the units he's part of down.

People on this board will say with a straight face that JJ was the most talented player on the club last season, but we were bleeding points to the tune of 11.3 pts per 100 possessions when he was on the court. Any GM in the league can see these numbers. It's no secret.

JonFromVA said:

The numbers say that Casspi has some defensive flaws, but they also say that he was the closest thing to a + player on the Kings.

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I'm with you on the Hickson point Jon, but when Casspi only played a total of 38 minutes in the last 13 games, and he was healthy in those 13 games, I don't know why people would hang their hat on that statistic.