Let's talk defense!

cavsfever said:

Folks...it's not about effort, and you can't turn it on like a faucet. You can tell when weak defense is just due to poor effort because teams will turn on the effort to get key fourth quarter stops to preserve a lead. Do you have any confidence in this team to get key fourth quarter stops? Do you really believe that they didn't care if Boston beat them the other day at Boston? Do you think they didn't care if Atlanta came back from 23 points down to win? Do you think the 29 points Boston hung on us in the 4th to win that game were because the Cavaliers weren't trying? Do you think the 42 points Atlanta hung on us in the 4th to make it a one point game with two minutes to go were because the Cavs weren't trying?

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Thing is, people forget and even myself to some extent that the defense was better than this even in 2015-2016. Cavs were never that bad on the defensive end. And in 2014-2015 after the trades they were elite even before the playoffs.

But we really don't have a clue how the Cavs are going to look come playoffs time on the defensive end. It's going to be a problem if it persists for the first couple games of the playoffs.

Right now, we can't control it. What the coach can control is managing the minutes and rotations better.

The minutes and rotations may be contributing to the defensive problems. Our two best defensive players are Lebron and TT. Lebron cannot defend as well when he is tired, and he is currently almost leading the league in minutes and being asked to play 39-40 MPG, a level that leaves him unable to put in max effort on both sides in the fourth quarter. TT is most effective as a 28 MPG energy guy who gives max effort at all times. But since the beginning of February he has been averaging close to 35 MPG as a starter. More TT has been helpful to the team but I can't help but wonder what effect it is having on his ability to switch on perimeter defense and close out on three pointers at the end of games.

All talk, no play...

cavsfever said:

The minutes and rotations may be contributing to the defensive problems. Our two best defensive players are Lebron and TT. Lebron cannot defend as well when he is tired, and he is currently almost leading the league in minutes and being asked to play 39-40 MPG, a level that leaves him unable to put in max effort on both sides in the fourth quarter. TT is most effective as a 28 MPG energy guy who gives max effort at all times. But since the beginning of February he has been averaging close to 35 MPG as a starter. More TT has been helpful to the team but I can't help but wonder what effect it is having on his ability to switch on perimeter defense and close out on three pointers at the end of games.

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Sure. What if Bogut proves to be our saviour on the defensive end? If it proves to be personnel problem , how are we going to address that in the offseason I wonder since we lack the assets.
It's obvious we can't do much on the defensive end scheme wise and I do think Bogut is going to fix that, but it's only temporary and not a long term solution.

Kyrie in an interview after the game said the defense was great up until the end.. so I wonder even more.

cavsfever said:

The minutes and rotations may be contributing to the defensive problems. Our two best defensive players are Lebron and TT. Lebron cannot defend as well when he is tired, and he is currently almost leading the league in minutes and being asked to play 39-40 MPG, a level that leaves him unable to put in max effort on both sides in the fourth quarter. TT is most effective as a 28 MPG energy guy who gives max effort at all times. But since the beginning of February he has been averaging close to 35 MPG as a starter. More TT has been helpful to the team but I can't help but wonder what effect it is having on his ability to switch on perimeter defense and close out on three pointers at the end of games.

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37.6 mpg is Lebrons Average. and only plays 39 minutes or more 42% of the time.

Where are you getting these numbers on Tristans Efficiency after so many minutes?

Players need to play.

TT had 34 games started last seson at 31 minutes a start and was + 9 on the floor.

He has a +9 when playing more than 29 minutes and a +4 when playing 20-29 minutes.

As far as his minutes increase that s a product of Love being out and utilizing the 5 by committee. this should change with the presence of bogut giving the Cavs a solid back up at the center position. ( Fry was mostly playing the 4 this season)

Tornicade said:

37.6 mpg is Lebrons Average. and only plays 39 minutes or more 42% of the time.

Where are you getting these numbers on Tristans Efficiency after so many minutes?

Players need to play.

TT had 34 games started last seson at 31 minutes a start and was + 9 on the floor.

He has a +9 when playing more than 29 minutes and a +4 when playing 20-29 minutes.

As far as his minutes increase that s a product of Love being out and utilizing the 5 by committee. this should change with the presence of bogut giving the Cavs a solid back up at the center position. ( Fry was mostly playing the 4 this season)

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Frye was mostly playing the 5 this season actually.. But I agree that TTs minutes will go down when Love comes back.

On Bogut starting, I think it's a bit absurd to cite TT's salary and rank as major reasons why he can't come off the bench. In Lebron's return season, TT was coming off the bench to bully tired legs and Mozgov was excellent as a defensive anchor. If switching starting roles can help both players (Bgut and TT) and the team then we shouldn't care about who's ahead of who in rank.

We can lockdown anyone with small lineups as currently built but that type of defense is so tiring and can't be expected till possibly the finals. A rim protector puts less pressure on our guys to stay in front of their man or having to rotate as much.

Long story short. Start Bogut if it proves to benefit the team.

wuck said:

The Cavs have only held 4 opponents under 100 points in 2017. In comparison, they held 16 opponents under 100 points during the same span in 2016.

This is nothing new, and it won't be solved by Bogut or JR. It's a team issue that has been present virtually all season.

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I would be interested to see the total possessions per game though. While we are obviously worst defensively. It seems we are playing at a much quicker pace which obviously gives the opponent more opportunities to score as well.

Over-reacting. Team is playing at about 85% capacity on Offense, 60% on Defense. No need to notch that up any more at this point. If playing elite defense is the difference between a 1 and 2 seed in the East....I can give two shits.

The regular season is for honing the base, trying new things, cementing principles, etc etc. As a veteran team, we know when to ramp it up...especially with a Leader with as much experience as anyone in the Association.

We do need some practice time to integrate the new pieces with our schemes. May be a blessing, because it means we have to revert back to the roots of the schemes. Allows everyone to be on the same page. Goal is to be firing on all cylinders somewhere around the 1st or 2nd round....no need to be playing elite bball in April or May.

ChicagoCavFan said:

Goal is to be firing on all cylinders somewhere around the 1st or 2nd round....no need to be playing elite bball in April or May.

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The level of confidence around here is nice to see but getting a little crazy...you don't think we need to play elite basketball in May, AKA the Eastern Conference Finals and Semifinals?

You do realize the other playoff teams in the Eastern Conference are actual high-level NBA teams and are not actually required by league rules to let us win, right?

Bdawgs12 said:

I would be interested to see the total possessions per game though. While we are obviously worst defensively. It seems we are playing at a much quicker pace which obviously gives the opponent more opportunities to score as well.

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it doesn't seem that way it is that way.

from 93 pace last season to a 96.5 pace this season.

Tornicade said:

it doesn't seem that way it is that way.

from 93 pace last season to a 96.5 pace this season.

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96.8 according to BBALLREF. 13th out of 30 teams.

GSW 2/30 at 100.7
SAS 25/30 at 94.7
...
Brooklyn 1/30 at 101.4 - at least they get to be 1st somewhere.

cavsfever said:

The level of confidence around here is nice to see but getting a little crazy...you don't think we need to play elite basketball in May, AKA the Eastern Conference Finals and Semifinals?

You do realize the other playoff teams in the Eastern Conference are actual high-level NBA teams and are not actually required by league rules to let us win, right?

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Atlanta has gone with a youth movement. Their ability to perform at a playoff level is in question.
Toronto isn't winning games with defense.
Washington has a better defense than Toronto but they aren't the offensive threat that Toronto is
Boston also isn't showing the lockdown defense and is barely rated higher than the Cavs and Toronto statistically.

Either way Washington or Toronto will have to deal with Atlanta


if the playoffs began today.
1. Cleveland vs 8. Detroit
2. Boston Vs 7 Indiana
3. Washington VS Chicago
4. Toronto vs Atlanta

Either seed scenario ( swapping Toronto with Washington)Cavs are looking at a 2nd round series against Washington, Toronto or Atlanta

and a Finals facing Either Boston, Toronto or Washington.

Does the Cavs sweep through the East again? Who knows but even if they don't . They are more than like to win the series against any of those teams.

Adding 3 players who look to be prominent rotation contributors in the last two week . Gaining back 2 starters.

Those aren't excuses those are realities.

just as with the reality that the Cavs only have 18 games with their starting lineup or that the lineup without Jr Smith with liggins and love was 9-2.

Jstock12 said:

96.8 according to BBALLREF. 13th out of 30 teams.

GSW 2/30 at 100.7
SAS 25/30 at 94.7
...
Brooklyn 1/30 at 101.4 - at least they get to be 1st somewhere.

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the comparison was the differences between last season and this season. where they rank league wise doesn't change the fact they are running their sets at 3.5 more possessions a game than last season.

Also pace isn't a good indicator of wins. it just tells you how often they push the ball.

Tornicade said:

Also pace isn't a good indicator of wins. it just tells you how often they push the ball.

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Well, Brooklyn pretty much proves it.