So long, David Griffin

buzzdog said:

Not taking a side? LOL. When did Griffin sleep with your old lady?

Click to expand...

Actually, it was my old lady he slept with.

The bastard!

With all the second guessing and Monday morning quarterbacking going on in this thread, I'm wondering whatever happened to the conventional wisdom that existed earlier in the season. That being, that the Cavs were hopelessely capped out, we had next to nothing for trade-able assets, that the last thing other teams in the league wanted to do was anything that would be helpful to the Cavs while they all still had aspirations of their own?

In other words, I recall the conventional wisdom used to be that Griffin was not only handcuffed from making any moves to improve the team that didn't involve unsigned minimum salary free agents or vet minimum additions?

My imperfect understanding of our situation has been that because of what I mentioned in the preceding statement, Griffin by definition had to wait to see who would be jettisoned and available on the cheap at the end of the season. Any other additions would have been attempting to win a lottery or catch lightning in a jar.

Now everyone comes in here saying Griffin should have been doing X,Y and Z all along.

JMoneyYourHoney said:

Delly saw meaningful minutes all season and in the early rounds before his injury. He allowed Kyrie to convalesce thoroughly so that he was able to be that playoff monster we needed to win the title.


It was widely reported in the 2015 offseason that Delly's camp was seeking a 3-5/per deal, but Griffin hardballed the guy. Everybody knew that the QO would come to bite us in the ass as Delly's phenomenal play from the Finals carried over into the regular season.

I understand that Griffin was operating under financial constraints due to Gilbert shelling out an unprecedented amount of money that summer, but to not lock Delly up for what was essentially pennies on the dollar was incredibly shortsighted and his biggest gaff as a GM.

Click to expand...

Yes, but do we know it was Griffins call, or maybe ownership said give him the QO and save me money. This is the hard part with judging Griffin. We really don't know what he had the power to do. Outside of Delly, most of the moves he had made we praised at the time. It is hard to predict the future. The biggest blunders I see, was the Andy extension, way to much money coming off injury.

-Akronite- said:

I don't know how we could make the great Korver deal and pick up both ideal free agents midseason (Bogut and Williams) along with some surprising contributions from Derrick and even a tryout for everybody's wet dream Larry Sanders and then talk shit on Griff. I'm not sure what else he could have done to improve this roster.

Also, keep in mind we had TWO dead roster spots that he cleared up along the way.

Click to expand...

I agree, the only complaint is not trying to fill earlier with contracts. Of-course all we know maybe players did not want to come to us unless we offered guaranteed contracts to them.

RichieRichPaul said:

Letting Delly get away will stop me from ever giving him an A. I think the Korver thing was ok. I feel like we would have been better off with Pj tucker for that first.

Ill he interested to see what the off season brings. I think Channing Frye needs to go. Clearly our problem is defense and 8 mill would be better spent on a defensive big. I dont think we need two stretch bigs who cant protect the rim. Frye amazes me how bad he is sometimes. Youd think a guy his size could alter a shot or two.

Click to expand...

I would agree, the Delly thing was hard, but know way we could have paid him that much. We still thought we had MO coming back, and thought Shump would cont to improve over the summer and help fill the loss.

Frye is a role player, and when he plays the role he is meant for, he is great at it.. His role is as the 4th big off the bench and to be paired with a 4 that can play defense. When we try to play him reg rotation mins he will get exposed. He is best for 10/12 mins a night to spell Love and only when LJ is on the court.

I can agree that in retrospect it would have been better if Griffin would have signed Delly and passed on Shump. But I don't think those choices would have been all that obvious when they were being made.

Shakezoula said:

I see the Delly lovers are out. I get it. He's white...

Click to expand...

Oh, well-played there, sir. All of us lifelong Cavs fans have a hard-on for white guys.

You may say Shump isn't moveable, I'm saying there will always be a market for an Iman Shumpert player in the NBA. Young, reasonably priced, athletic, 3&d.

Click to expand...

Yup, 'ol "reasonably priced" Shumpert -- that's what the rest of the league calls him at $10M/year. And "3 & D"? Just got done playing career-worst defense. He was hot enough early on to hit a blistering career-high 36%(!!!!) from 3, though he didn't break 30% in Feb, March, or April."

But hey, he was good enough to get a DNP-CD in the first playoff game of the year, so what do I know?

Couldn't ask for more from Griff. Grabbed Korver,

Click to expand...

You just like Korver because.....

Well, you know.

buzzdog said:

With all the second guessing and Monday morning quarterbacking going on in this thread, I'm wondering whatever happened to the conventional wisdom that existed earlier in the season. That being, that the Cavs were hopelessely capped out, we had next to nothing for trade-able assets, that the last thing other teams in the league wanted to do was anything that would be helpful to the Cavs while they all still had aspirations of their own?

Click to expand...

Fair point -- I think there are two things going on here. First, there were some of us who didn't like the moves made at the end of 2015 season anyway.

But second, I think most of us acknowledged that Griff's hands were tied during the season, so there wasn't much complaining about the moves he made during the season. But the reason his hands were tied during the season, while we had some pretty obvious holes, were decisions he'd made prior to the season. And he's responsible for those.

The Human Q-Tip said:

But second, I think most of us acknowledged that Griff's hands were tied during the season, so there wasn't much complaining about the moves he made during the season. But the reason his hands were tied during the season, while we had some pretty obvious holes, were decisions he'd made prior to the season. And he's responsible for those.

Click to expand...

Exactly. I don't blame Griffin for anything he did this season (although I wonder why we signed somebody in Derrick Williams that Lue would refuse to play, that seems to be on Lue not Griffin...I liked the signing and wish he played more).

What I'd criticize him for this season is the roster he built over last summer. As I said somewhere earlier on this thread, about half of that roster was predictably unable to play high-level NBA basketball -- has-beens or never-weres. You always have some deadweight at the end of the bench but our situation was extreme. Huge risk to enter the season with a roster like that.

The Human Q-Tip said:

Oh, well-played there, sir. All of us lifelong Cavs fans have a hard-on for white guys.

Click to expand...

Cleveland, like a lot of towns - Boston being world famous for it - love gritty white guys. I don't know how that can even be disputed. Why do you think everyone knows Brian Scalabrine's name? Dude is garbage. Delly represents everything that blue collar middle aged white guys love. Perhaps you don't fall into that category, but it's obvious you've got a bit of a chub for a career backup pg.

The Human Q-Tip said:

Yup, 'ol "reasonably priced" Shumpert -- that's what the rest of the league calls him at $10M/year. And "3 & D"? Just got done playing career-worst defense. He was hot enough early on to hit a blistering career-high 36%(!!!!) from 3, though he didn't break 30% in Feb, March, or April."

Click to expand...

Shump has his flaws, I don't dispute that. Still believe he has value on the market. As much or more so than Delly.

I will repeat, As I mentioned when I first responded in this thread:

If your biggest bone with Griff is him not re-signing Delly, then you really shouldn't be complaining at all..

buzzdog said:

Not taking a side? LOL. When did Griffin sleep with your old lady?

Click to expand...

That seems to speak to how strong you think the argument is. Merely presenting it, not advocating it. Certainly has merits but might be overstated.

We have not had the most luck this year from a personel side. It is hard to hold Griffin responsible for these. He has done what he can during the season.

Mo- injury and say he fucked over the Cavs at the last min
JR- injury and huge personal issue, no way Griff could have seen that
Love - injury
Bogut- injury less then 2 mins into first start
Lou - having health issues

cavsfan1985 said:

We have not had the most luck this year from a personel side. It is hard to hold Griffin responsible for these. He has done what he can during the season.

Mo- injury and say he fucked over the Cavs at the last min
JR- injury and huge personal issue, no way Griff could have seen that
Love - injury
Bogut- injury less then 2 mins into first start
Lou - having health issues

Click to expand...

No, it is on Griffin. It wasn't predictable that JR would be injured but it is predictable that someone gets injured over an 82 game season. It was predictable that Birdman would not produce and that if he didn't we would have major frontcourt depth issues. It was predictable that given Mo's injury we would lack a backup PG, and that Felder, a 5'8" rookie drafted in the second round, would not be up to the task. etc.

Bogut's injury, I'll give you.

I guess the question is more what resources Griffin really had to work with over the summer.

cavsfever said:

I guess the question is more what resources Griffin really had to work with over the summer.

Click to expand...

What resources did Griffin have? He had the vet min... Next.

cavsfever said:

No, it is on Griffin. It wasn't predictable that JR would be injured but it is predictable that someone gets injured over an 82 game season. It was predictable that Birdman would not produce and that if he didn't we would have major frontcourt depth issues. It was predictable that given Mo's injury we would lack a backup PG, and that Felder, a 5'8" rookie drafted in the second round, would not be up to the task. etc.

Bogut's injury, I'll give you.

I guess the question is more what resources Griffin really had to work with over the summer.

Click to expand...

Come on, you think having JR miss 1/3 the season plus have personal issues was expected?

Yes, MO has injury issues, but to find out at the end of the offseason he was out for the year? Different then injurys and what Mo did. How many teams carry a legit third strong backup pg that's not a rockie or a developmental player. We though going in, Mo then Shump and LJ could all play PG mins. Losing MO hurt is bad, just imagine if we had him for 10 mins a game? He was the perfect Backup Pg for the second unit with LJ.

Shakezoula said:

Cleveland, like a lot of towns - Boston being world famous for it - love gritty white guys. I don't know how that can even be disputed. Why do you think everyone knows Brian Scalabrine's name?

Click to expand...

Because they make fun of him.

Dude is garbage. Delly represents everything that blue collar middle aged white guys love. Perhaps you don't fall into that category, but it's obvious you've got a bit of a chub for a career backup pg.

Click to expand...

Wow. I really don't even know what to say to this. Did you notice all the love when we signed blue collar white guy Chris Andersen? Me neither. Also worth noting that I'm criticizing a white guy general manager.

I'll guess just say that it's apparent that the only thing you see when you look at Delly is his skin color. I actually feel sorry for someone who lives their life looking through that lens.

This is an ugly enough conversation at this point that I'm just going to drop it.