The Official Game of Thrones [A Song of Ice and Fire] Thread (includes spoilers)

godfather said:

But what was he realistically supposed to do? If he charged her, Euron and his men kill them both. Even if he somehow killed Euron, they'd both be dead instantly.

It was the smarter/although seemingly wimpy option, to just jump in the water, and live to at least have a chance.

Maybe he did go Reek, but still think there's a chance he might end up redeeming himself for that. Not sure though. I don't think it mattered though.

Euron would have easily killed both of them.

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Jack addressed this pretty well.

Man, going back through that TWOW Aeron chapter, and it dawned on me

At first I was upset that Theon sunk back into Reek but as everyone has stated Euron would have killed them both. I think he deceived Euron by pretending to tuck his tail and abandon. I also think Theon is still on his redemption tour to try and undo all the wrong he's done. He also has to remember Yara trying to rescue him from Ramsay despite his refusal to go with her.

cdt said:

At first I was upset that Theon sunk back into Reek but as everyone has stated Euron would have killed them both. I think he deceived Euron by pretending to tuck his tail and abandon. I also think Theon is still on his redemption tour to try and undo all the wrong he's done. He also has to remember Yara trying to rescue him from Ramsay despite his refusal to go with her.

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I really want that to be the case... but it was specifically edited to show him freaking out about everything surrounding him. If this was a ploy by Theon then it was a hell of a bit of misdirection by the showrunners.

Chris said:

Jack addressed this pretty well.

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It's better to be smart and alive, than brave and dead.

I think it's easy to assume he went Reek, and maybe he did... Still don't think what he did was wrong or cowardly necessarily.

Euron has his sister, one charge at him, she's dead. There's nothing he could do about that. Nothing.

Best case, jump in the water, make them think you're a pansy/not a threat. Then at least have some chance of fighting another day.

Was it wimpy or just smart?

Maybe both.

If there's anything Theon might have learned from the Reek situation. Is that you don't have to be the hero every day. Sometimes being the hero gets you killed in this world, and everyone else killed that you care about too.

He certainly wasn't the hero with Sansa at first. The one she desperately needed, he bought his time, then when the opportunity came, he saved her life and got her out of there.

Live to fight another day.

godfather said:

It's better to be smart and alive, than brave and dead.

I think it's easy to assume he went Reek, and maybe he did... Still don't think what he did was wrong or cowardly necessarily.

Euron has his sister, one charge at him, she's dead. There's nothing he could do about that. Nothing.

Best case, jump in the water, make them think you're a pansy/not a threat. Then at least have some chance of fighting another day.

Was it wimpy or just smart?

Maybe both.

If there's anything Theon might have learned from the Reek situation. Is that you don't have to be the hero every day. Sometimes being the hero gets you in this world, and everyone else killed that you care about too.

He certainly wasn't the hero with Sansa at first. The one she desperately needed, he bought his time, then when the opportunity came, he saved her life and got her out of there.

Live to fight another day.

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I don't know why you're posting this, you're preaching to the choir. I already said he actually made the smart move and that if the scene was meant to show us he was "reverting to Reek" then they should have gone a different route. And like I said, Jack further covered this.

Clearly, the way the scene was shot, it was meant to show Theon becoming Reek again, even if just for a moment. Now, if you think the show producers are trying to pull a fast one on us and make us think Theon is going coward when he's actually playing some long game, okay...I don't necessarily agree, but okay.

Chris said:

I don't know why you're posting this, you're preaching to the choir. I already said he actually made the smart move and that if the scene was meant to show us he was "reverting to Reek" then they should have gone a different route. And like I said, Jack further covered this.

Clearly, the way the scene was shot, it was meant to show Theon becoming Reek again, even if just for a moment. Now, if you think the show producers are trying to pull a fast one on us and make us think Theon is going coward when he's actually playing some long game, okay...I don't necessarily agree, but okay.

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I don't think he's ever stopped being Reek, completely. Not full Reek like he was under Ramsay, but he's definitely not the brazen, cocky Theon that was with Robb Stark.

The Reek situation has clearly changed him for good.

He was serving drinks to Ellaria Sand like a servant. Theon Greyjoy would never have done that.

Reek would also not have been slicing up Euron's men the way Theon was during the battle.

But I agree, he has changed for good. I can't tell if you're trying to convince me of something still or what, though. I think that scene was meant to show Theon going full coward/Reek once more, even if it was the "smart" thing to do (he really did have no other choice, which is why I think they could have done it a different way)

While it may be disappointing, reverting back to Reek is not surprising in the slightest. He has not and never will recover from the trauma Ramsey put him through.

That being said I think he'll die killing Euron, saving Yara in the process.

Is it me or do people travel so much faster than they should on the show? It's like Varys teleports.

Chris said:

Reek would also not have been slicing up Euron's men the way Theon was during the battle.

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Sure he would? He's still a trained fighter. He still knows how to fight. Reek was meant to break Theon's spirit, and literally do what he's told to do, or fear the repercussions. If Ramsay wanted Reek to kill for him, he'd have done it, too.

Although he wasn't completely Reek anymore since escaping, he still had his Reek moments.

Serving Ellaria Sand wasn't very Reek-like? Hell, I thought that was more pathetic than him jumping in the water. Serving that nasty bitch was pretty cringe worthy to me.

Chris said:

But I agree, he has changed for good. I can't tell if you're trying to convince me of something still or what, though. I think that scene was meant to show Theon going full coward/Reek once more, even if it was the "smart" thing to do (he really did have no other choice, which is why I think they could have done it a different way)

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I wasn't trying to convince you of "anything". I don't disagree he had a total Reek moment. I get that. He clearly looked shell-shocked, and we were supposed to notice that he's gone total Reek.

I'm not sure why anyone would be that surprised that he did though. Nor was it necessarily a thing he did, too.

Regardless if he was fighting successfully, or not. He still knows how to fight as a solider.

If someone comes at him with a sword, he's not going to literally run away.

I saw an interview with Alfie Allen (Theon) and he said that Theon was finally going to put Reek behind him in season 7. So I think it's safe to say we will see a redemption arc this season.

cdt said:

At first I was upset that Theon sunk back into Reek but as everyone has stated Euron would have killed them both. I think he deceived Euron by pretending to tuck his tail and abandon. I also think Theon is still on his redemption tour to try and undo all the wrong he's done. He also has to remember Yara trying to rescue him from Ramsay despite his refusal to go with her.

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Also, why would Reek, when he STILL WAS REEK, risk his life to save Sansa, when he clearly was still afraid of Ramsay?

But be a total coward, and just "save himself" in that moment.

I don't even think that's a Reek moment, but maybe more a Theon one. I know Theon wouldn't have been that cowardly, just seems more like a Theon selfish act.

I don't consider the part where Yara tried to rescue him one, either. He was too far gone at that point, and was broken down that bad, he actually wanted, or accepted he's Reek.

Part of why Theon became Reek, because he was devastated over betraying Robb. Had no will to live anymore after that, but Ramsay, wasn't going to kill him.

He felt this was somewhat poetic justice for what he did to their family.

Maybe I'm way off. I've not read the books like Rich, and Jack, so they have better insight on these characters than me.

It seemed to me that the selfish Theon was gone, though. That he was all about redemption.

Either way, it was the best scene by far. Yes, Euron was a joy to watch, but the acting was so great by Alfie Allen.

I don't think Gemma Whelan is getting enough credit, too.

Not only did we see Theon resemble Reek, but so did Yara. She saw it too. The look on her face, she was basically done with him. Utter disappointment.

But its easy to think he was just being a selfish coward. But maybe he was just being a smart thinking coward?

As I've mentioned, the way they shot the scene made the interpretation pretty clear. Theon looked at Euron and saw the crazy in his eyes. He looked around him and saw Euron's crew butchering his people. He flashed back to all the horrible things that Ramsay did to him in that moment and reverted to Reek. Theon would have died fighting. Reek runs like a coward. And he runs because he's more afraid of being captured and tortured than he is of dying.

In the books, the main way that Ramsay was able to manipulate Theon into becoming Reek was that fear of what would happen if he ran or did something wrong. Ramsay's false rescues and follow-up punishments really broke Theon down.

Jack Brickman said:

As I've mentioned, the way they shot the scene made the interpretation pretty clear. Theon looked at Euron and saw the crazy in his eyes. He looked around him and saw Euron's crew butchering his people. He flashed back to all the horrible things that Ramsay did to him in that moment and reverted to Reek. Theon would have died fighting. Reek runs like a coward. And he runs because he's more afraid of being captured and tortured than he is of dying.

In the books, the main way that Ramsay was able to manipulate Theon into becoming Reek was that fear of what would happen if he ran or did something wrong. Ramsay's false rescues and follow-up punishments really broke Theon down.

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I don't doubt any of that.

I don't think he was acting, or pretending. He was clearly scared, traumatized, and had a complete Reek deer-in-the-headlights moment.

The redemption tour of Reek/Theon is pretty much dead, if something doesn't come out of this though.

And it just might have ended in a better result, even if it was looked upon as pretty shitty/cowardly in that moment.

Then again, I don't see why Yara would still be alive. I don't think Euron has any use for her.

Ellaria we assume is the gift she's bringing Cersei. Cersei doesn't give a fuck about Yara.