Iman Shumpert: Gone! Thank God!

What separates Shumperts from being a decent offensive player is a lack of handles. Just don't see that improving.

Taiter said:

What separates Shumperts from being a decent offensive player is a lack of handles. Just don't see that improving.

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You can be a good offensive player without handles. Klay, porter, Middleton guys like that. All he’d have to do is stand in the corner and shoot open 3s Lebron passes to him and he’d shoot nearly 40% like did for a stretch last year.

Shumpert has Re-Found his "NY Essence".
Fckn Dumb Ass.

mhi said:

Sounds like he's already eyeing his next contract (rightfully so) since he's about to hit his "prime", whatever that is.

Anyways just another bad Griffin contract we'll be trying to get rid off soon. Next in line will be Korver, who we inexplicably gave 7mil/3 yrs at 36. RJ's contract length was weird too. Anyone remember that absurd AV deal?

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Shump was a good signing at the time. A bargain, even, considering the market. He'd just come off a very good finals run.

David Griffin didn't re-sign Korver. Griff was gone by then.

RJ got two years after playing a significant role in the finals, for essentially minimum money. Not sure what's weird about that.

The Varejao one... actually, for as much of a head-scratcher as it was at the time from a basketball standpoint, it made a ton of sense. He was a respected vet getting one last pay day to stick around and help the young guys. Not the front office's fault he tore an achilles. Plus, the fact his last year was non-guaranteed helped this team land Channing.

czvo said:

Shump was a good signing at the time. A bargain, even, considering the market. He'd just come off a very good finals run.

David Griffin didn't re-sign Korver. Griff was gone by then.

RJ got two years after playing a significant role in the finals, for essentially minimum money. Not sure what's weird about that.

The Varejao one... actually, for as much of a head-scratcher as it was at the time from a basketball standpoint, it made a ton of sense. He was a respected vet getting one last pay day to stick around and help the young guys. Not the front office's fault he tore an achilles. Plus, the fact his last year was non-guaranteed helped this team land Channing.

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yup. everyone's looking at these deals through the prism of the post-KD to the warriors NBA, where if you don't have 4 elite players on team friendly contracts your front office is terrible

FritzLn said:

yup. everyone's looking at these deals through the prism of the post-KD to the warriors NBA, where if you don't have 4 elite players on team friendly contracts your front office is terrible

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It's not just that. It's the need to revise history to fit a narrative. We can be critical of people and decisions without being revisionist. Don't change the facts to confirm an opinion. Analyze the facts, then decide.

Shumpert has role on this team if he wants it. It's up to him to carve it out and prove himself on a consistent basis.

We know he's gonna shoot about 35-38% from 3. And that's fine. If he improves more, wonderful, great! But if he stays in the mid 30's...his role is not defined by hitting threes.

He doesn't have to dribble or handle the ball at all.

He doesn't even have to be a good overall defender.

But if he wants, he can become the guy we situationally put on opposing PGs, particularly the quick and explosive ones. If he can just focus his pea-brain on becoming our go-to man defender against quick PG's...he will have a consistent role on his team. He will play most nights. He will get a solid 10-12 minutes. All he has to do is come in and commit to shutting The PGs water off. Guys like Wall, Kyrie, Lowry, Schroeder, Westbrook, Conley, Paul, Harden...etc..etc

We know he can do it. He can hit 35% on 3, suck at everything else...but if he can slow down PGs when we ask...he will have a role

I'm Not counting on it

InBoobieWeTrust said:

Shumpert has role on this team if he wants it. It's up to him to carve it out and prove himself on a consistent basis.

We know he's gonna shoot about 35-38% from 3. And that's fine. If he improves more, wonderful, great! But if he stays in the mid 30's...his role is not defined by hitting threes.

He doesn't have to dribble or handle the ball at all.

He doesn't even have to be a good overall defender.

But if he wants, he can become the guy we situationally put on opposing PGs, particularly the quick and explosive ones. If he can just focus his pea-brain on becoming our go-to man defender against quick PG's...he will have a consistent role on his team. He will play most nights. He will get a solid 10-12 minutes. All he has to do is come in and commit to shutting The PGs water off. Guys like Wall, Kyrie, Lowry, Schroeder, Westbrook, Conley, Paul, Harden...etc..etc

We know he can do it. He can hit 35% on 3, suck at everything else...but if he can slow down PGs when we ask...he will have a role

I'm Not counting on it

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Don't you fall into the trap...
Iman Shumpert's game is crap.

If we put him on the floor...
His D's become a revolving door.

But in his head, he's a lights out shooter....
Please God let's trade him for a Walmart scooter.

I'll show myself out...

Shump is infuriating because if he accepted his limitations rather than try and become something he’s not (offense creator with the ball in his hands), he could be a huge plus for any team. But seems to care about his hair and music career more than maximizing his basketball portnetial. Then there’s his low basketball IQ, displayed in all its glory in game three of the finals last year when he pulled up for three with 17 seconds left in the quarter rather than hold for the last shot which wound up costing the Cavs two points that were huge down the stretch.

Having said all that, he was for his first two seasons here an elite wing defender, easily a top 5-7 perimeter defender in the league. Last year, he became a better shooter, but became lazy on defense. He can still be a very good perimeter defender and if he can shoot 35%+ on catch and shoot threes, he has a role. He’s the fourth best defender on the team behind Bron, Crowder, TT and has worked really well with James in his time here.

Over the last three seasons:

Shump + LeBron: 2,313 minutes played, 4,556 possessions played.

Cavs’ ORating: 115.6
Cavs’ DRating: 106.6
NET +10 per 100

Can’t run a query for Wade/LeBron and would have to do it by hand, but they were about +10 to +11 in their time together in Miami.

czvo said:

Shump was a good signing at the time. A bargain, even, considering the market. He'd just come off a very good finals run.

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The league knew what he was at that time. I don't think got too many offers and he was exactly in that area where you let the market call his value. Most players coming off deep playoffs run tend to get overvalued by their teams because at some point over that run, they will have gotten a chance to give good minutes at a very high stage. It never means they can reproduce that over a year. Remember Troy Daniels in HOU?

David Griffin didn't re-sign Korver. Griff was gone by then.

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Ehh oops. Slipped by.

RJ got two years after playing a significant role in the finals, for essentially minimum money. Not sure what's weird about that.

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Why hamstring yourself like that. You really think someone who was about to retire would have turned down a 1+1 team option? The only other rationale would have been the mindset that they couldn't pick up someone better for the minimum at age 37, which is wrong processing for a contender.

The Varejao one... actually, for as much of a head-scratcher as it was at the time from a basketball standpoint, it made a ton of sense. He was a respected vet getting one last pay day to stick around and help the young guys. Not the front office's fault he tore an achilles. Plus, the fact his last year was non-guaranteed helped this team land Channing.

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At 32 years old with his type of game and coming off two season ending injuries, the writing was on the wall. Nothing against Varejao but with the Lebron return, every dollar not well spent was either going to kill our flexibility or multiply our tax liability. Best yet.. he was already under contract when we handed him the money.

mhi said:

The league knew what he was at that time. I don't think got too many offers and he was exactly in that area where you let the market call his value. Most players coming off deep playoffs run tend to get overvalued by their teams because at some point over that run, they will have gotten a chance to give good minutes at a very high stage. It never means they can reproduce that over a year. Remember Troy Daniels in HOU?



Ehh oops. Slipped by.



Why hamstring yourself like that. You really think someone who was about to retire would have turned down a 1+1 team option? The only other rationale would have been the mindset that they couldn't pick up someone better for the minimum at age 37, which is wrong processing for a contender.



At 32 years old with his type of game and coming off two season ending injuries, the writing was on the wall. Nothing against Varejao but with the Lebron return, every dollar not well spent was either going to kill our flexibility or multiply our tax liability. Best yet.. he was already under contract when we handed him the money.

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These are criticisms I can get behind, even if I disagree with them. I think the Shumpert signing is more along the lines of hindsight being 20/20.

RJ... that's fair. I'm just not going to get up in arms about two years vs. one though, especially when he has been an integral part of the locker room. I think we so often look for upgrades in talent that we forget how important it is to have a guy like RJ who has no problems riding the bench, but will keep the locker room loose and is ready when called upon. I would hardly agree that they're hamstrung by RJ's deal. I'd argue that the predicament they're in now is because they rushed to sign Calderon for no reason.

And my opinion of the Varejao deal may also be a victim of hindsight being 20/20 because of how big a role Channing has played on and off the floor with this team. He, along with RJ, may just be the reason the team got Kevin Love back on his game. That alone is worth the Varejao deal, without even mentioning the impact he's had on the floor.

I think Lue had “Stay in your lane” talk with Shump. As we stand now, we don’t really need him, but we could still use him if he decides he wants to play his role. Ironically, Shump in my opinion, is the last player that we have on our team, that is not buying into greater plan. We took the rest of the out fitters out. Great.

czvo said:

These are criticisms I can get behind, even if I disagree with them. I think the Shumpert signing is more along the lines of hindsight being 20/20.

RJ... that's fair. I'm just not going to get up in arms about two years vs. one though, especially when he has been an integral part of the locker room. I think we so often look for upgrades in talent that we forget how important it is to have a guy like RJ who has no problems riding the bench, but will keep the locker room loose and is ready when called upon. I would hardly agree that they're hamstrung by RJ's deal. I'd argue that the predicament they're in now is because they rushed to sign Calderon for no reason.

And my opinion of the Varejao deal may also be a victim of hindsight being 20/20 because of how big a role Channing has played on and off the floor with this team. He, along with RJ, may just be the reason the team got Kevin Love back on his game. That alone is worth the Varejao deal, without even mentioning the impact he's had on the floor.

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I wouldn't call them hindsight. In a realgm thread about the Shumpert signing and there was a sizable amount who thought it an overpay. https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1396610#start_here
Hindsight 20/20 would imply that at the time it wasn't reasonably foreseeable that we were overcomitting. By next season you'll have people calling the Korver signing hindsight 20/20

Edit: anyway for me it's not the salary that's the problem with our renewals, it's the years

Shump is just a low talented low IQ player. The times he has played to his limits he has looked good but that never has or never will last.

Also a very overrated defender. Does a lot of dumb stuff on that end.

Photon said:

I think Lue had “Stay in your lane” talk with Shump. As we stand now, we don’t really need him, but we could still use him if he decides he wants to play his role. Ironically, Shump in my opinion, is the last player that we have on our team, that is not buying into greater plan. We took the rest of the out fitters out. Great.

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we don't know anything yet about how much new additions like Rose, Wade, IT, or Green are buying into the greater plan. None of them have been under any stress yet, they literally just got here.