2017-2018 off-season thread

[Raja khan]

well, now that the disappointing season is over, what happens now?

 

[Raja khan]

Bump.

 

[T C]

Trade TT & Shump, picks for PG, get Melo to kick up a sink in NY so they can buy him out and he can come here. Just play small all the way. Love, Bron, PG, JR, Kyrie. 6th man Melo. Won't happen but there's always dreaming.

 

[Jordan]

well, now that the disappointing season is over, what happens now?

Disappointing season? What?

Sure, the regular season sucked, but the playoffs were amazing. The Cavs had the greatest playoff offense of all-time per ORTG stats, they went 12-1 on their road to the Finals, game four was the greatest offensive game in NBA history, and they put up a fight against the most talented team in NBA history.

I don't know... Warriors had more talent than we did. But the playoffs were incredibly fun, we played hard, and were historically great. Hard to call that a disappointment.

 

[FrontPageNews]

Do we have any TPEs?

 

[RichieRichPaul]

Anyone have insider can post this??

http://www.espn.com/nba/insider/sto...in-love-kyrie-irving-contend-warriors-nba-5-5

 

[mhi]

The most important off-season since Lebron came back.

 

[mhi]

Anyone have insider can post this??

http://www.espn.com/nba/insider/sto...in-love-kyrie-irving-contend-warriors-nba-5-5

1. Will and should the Cavs trade a starter?
Amin Elhassan, ESPN Insider: I'll say yes to "should." The Cavs should explore drastic changes. As I pointed out on The Jump, LeBron's current sidekicks, while universally lauded for their talent, have failed at being self-sufficient without massive contributions by James. To get the most out of this stage of his career, the Cavs must lessen the burden on him by crafting a roster that can survive without him and excel with him.

Will they? That's a tougher question to answer, as it implies a knowledge of how the Cavs see themselves -- they might be in denial about what happened to them -- as well as a willingness for trade partners to deal with them.

Tom Haberstroh, ESPN Insider: I'm not sure there's a market for Tristan Thompson at his price tag, so I'd explore what Kyrie Irving and Kevin Love might fetch on the trade market. The Finals showed a glaring need for two-way players and neither has excelled on both ends.

While Chris Paul would help now, I think the smarter move is to find a younger stud such as Paul George to carry the torch when Draymond Green and Klay Thompson potentially leave after 2018-19.

Chris Herring, FiveThirtyEight/ESPN.com: I'm not sure if they will -- none of us are, since we don't even know yet if general manager David Griffin will be back -- but they probably need to. After what we just witnessed, the Cavs are clearly still the class of the Eastern Conference, and probably will be for another two or three years (depending on what route Boston takes in that span, and how much a club such as Milwaukee improves).

In the meantime, everything they do has to be based on the idea of catching Golden State. They need a lot more defense to compete with the Warriors. While Thompson was bad in this series, Love might be the person most worth dealing. In return, the Cavs badly need another wing player who can create on his own and defend his position well.

Jeremias Engelmann, ESPN Insider: Yes, if they want to get closer to the Warriors' level, the Cavs should look to trade JR Smith (real plus-minus: -1.2) and Thompson (RPM: 0.2).

That's easier said than done: Smith, who is signed through 2019 at about $14 million per season, will not attract lots of takers given his troubled history and given that he shot 35 percent from the field during the season. Thompson makes $17 million per season, is somewhat a one-trick pony (offensive rebounding) and was ineffective for most of the Finals.

Irving and Love are generally pulling their weight and should be traded only if a great deal -- with another superstar -- is offered.

Kevin Pelton, ESPN Insider: I don't expect that they will and I don't really think they should. The Cavaliers showed over the last three games of the Finals that they can compete with the Warriors on relatively even terms. They need to be ready to compete to start a potential fourth consecutive matchup, which hasn't been the case in Games 1 and 2 either of the past two years.

Beyond that, I don't think major changes would help them enough against Golden State to offset potentially hurting Cleveland against Eastern Conference competition.

2. What other moves should Cleveland consider?
Haberstroh: Obviously, the defense needs work, so that's where I'd start first. I'd call up Charlotte and see what the asking price for Michael Kidd-Gilchrist would be. Saving James on the defensive end might be wise for the long term. A deal centered around Thompson might work, considering the Hornets were abysmal on the offensive boards.

Herring: Even if they land a big-time wing player, they probably still need one or two more. Smith and Iman Shumpert are fine, but they aren't the sorts of players you can always rely on in a series. As we saw on that Avery Bradley game-winner from the Boston series, they both lose their way on defense too often.

The team might also benefit from letting James take a true sabbatical, like he did a couple years ago. It might help replenish him some -- this season he ran 47 more miles than Durant did coming into these Finals -- and it would likely build the team up a bit, hopefully to the point where the Cavs aren't getting blasted by 12 in the two minutes James gets a breather during a Finals game.

Elhassan: A focus on the acquisition and development of cheap, two-way talent. The biggest thing the Warriors exploit are lineups that feature players who excel on one end but not the other. Since established two-way talent comes at a premium, Cleveland's best route is to invest more heavily in second-round draftees, D-Leaguers and international free agents.

Pelton: I would try to tweak the bench, which has been a disappointment in the Finals. As valuable as Kyle Korver's shooting is, Cleveland could use a more versatile defender in that spot. I would spend free agency trying to convince PJ Tucker or James Johnson to take the taxpayer mid-level exception.

Engelmann: The Cavs are in the fantastic situation of having James, a player other NBA players want to team up with.

Unfortunately, they haven't used this advantage enough. Instead of signing great players at a discount, they've signed good-but-not-great players to above-market deals. This has led to a situation in which the Cavs can't build a superteam at Golden State's level, as they have zero cap space.

They should look into shedding some of that salary and replacing those players with ring chasers who are content with smaller contracts.

3. Will LeBron James be in Cleveland beyond 2018?
Pelton: Only James knows, and he probably can't predict at this point how he'll feel in a year. The possibility of James becoming a free agent adds a little urgency to the Cavaliers' offseason, but ultimately I think they have to plan as if he'll remain in Cleveland long term.

Engelmann: I think the chances are less than 50 percent. At Thursday's news conference, James said he wants, above all, to compete. The Cavs, unfortunately, are not quite like the Spurs, who seem to develop good players out of nothing, year after year.

Most of the Cavs' deals made in recent years have been on the questionable side, and I don't think they'll be on the Warriors' level anytime soon. James, then, might be looking to compete with a different group. Most likely he'll try to team up with Paul and/or George.

Herring: I think so. He and Carmelo Anthony have each mentioned conversations about the idea of them, Paul and Dwyane Wade all signing with the same club toward the end of their careers. With James and Paul still playing like the max players they are -- and Paul potentially switching teams this summer -- it's hard to see how that can happen over the next few seasons. All things considered, James is still in a great situation with Cleveland. It's just that Golden State has way more talent than the Cavs do.

Elhassan: I would lean toward yes, but then again I also thought he would never leave Miami. Obviously, a move to another franchise would have to feature at least the opportunity for a better situation immediately (much like his return to Cleveland), and that would imply staying in the East, since a West defection would make his path to the Finals more difficult.

Haberstroh: Yes, in the long run. Though I'm convinced he'll retire a Cav, he might make an L.A. pit stop before then. If the question is whether he'll bolt Cleveland in 2018, I'm more and more convinced that he'll get the itch to climb another mountain. He killed the Cleveland curse. What if he killed the Clippers curse? He's not one for the road most traveled.

4. Which is more true?
A. The Cavs need to make big changes now.
B. The Cavs need to bring back the team and hope for the best.

Herring: A. I think this was a thorough enough beating that it's clear very little would have changed the eventual outcome in this series. At full strength, I highly doubt that this collection of players can beat Golden State's collection of players.

So if you bring back largely the same group, it seems as if you're merely hoping something happens to the Warriors. They might be forced to part ways with a key role player or two -- Andre Iguodala's contract is up this summer, for instance -- but even if you whittle Golden State down some, the Warriors have the league's best roster and arguably two of its three best superstars.

Pelton: B. Depending on what the Boston Celtics are able to add in free agency, the Cavaliers do run the risk that if they weaken their team overall to match up better with the Warriors, they might never get to the NBA Finals to face them at all. The primary focus should remain on putting together the best overall team, and I don't think drastic changes would likely help in that regard.

Engelmann: A. James might not have lost his patience yet, but he will if the Cavs lose again to the Warriors in 2018. The front office has to at least show the willingness to shake things up. They can't come back with this exact same group and expect a different result.

Elhassan: A. If the goal is to make the Finals, realistically they can stay put and accomplish that feat. But, as I have maintained since the Finals last year, there is a huge gap between the Warriors and Cavs, a gap that widened considerably in July 2016. One of the most important questions any NBA team can ask itself is, "Who are we?" When answered truthfully, it helps avoid the delusion that leads to staying a course that is less than ideal.

The Cavs won last year because a remarkable set of circumstances that in all likelihood was not repeatable, even without Durant being on the opposing side. As such, the only way they can hope to compete against the Warriors is by making some changes, namely going after the type of two-way talent Golden State features. They should not hesitate to part ways with anyone not named LeBron James if it means acquiring high-level talent such as George or Jimmy Butler (or both?).

Haberstroh: A. James is in the market solely for titles at this point, so sitting on their hands doesn't seem prudent. The team made a big play for offensive firepower at the deadline, but ignoring defense is not a championship recipe. Also, the Cavs need to take the Boston Celtics seriously. If the Cavs don't make a real upgrade on the defensive end, Boston is a big free-agent signing away from taking their spot in the Finals.

5. How many NBA Finals appearances and NBA titles do you expect for the Cavs in next five years?
Elhassan: I'll go with three appearances and no titles. I have confidence that James will still be dominant in the near future, but there is no guarantee that even the most drastic of changes will result in a product that will be as good as the Warriors (given that we expect them to keep their core four together).

Haberstroh: I'll set the line at 1.5 for appearances and 0.5 for titles. The days of a breezy Eastern Conference are over. The Celtics have already nabbed the No. 1 seed. With cap space and a No. 1 pick on the way to Beantown, the Cavs aren't a lock for the Finals anymore.

Herring: Assuming James doesn't jump ship? Four appearances. One title. I could see something happening, whether it's health-related or something else, tripping up the Warriors at least once in the years to come. I think the teams in the East are still a ways away from knocking off James. Someone does it by the end of this upcoming five-year run, but probably not more than once.

Engelmann: I'd say three Finals appearances, assuming that James stays for another three years. Titles? I'd put the over/under at 0.5. Even if these Warriors break up, which it doesn't look like they will, other Western Conference teams are likely to be a bit stronger than the Cavaliers. For example, had the Spurs come out of the West, they probably would have been the favorites in the Finals.

Pelton: James' free agency complicates things to some extent, but I would say the lines are set at 2.5 Finals appearances and 0.5 championships. I might take the under on both. James can't remain the best player in the NBA forever -- at least I don't think he can -- and before too long, I expect age to bring Cleveland back to the East pack.

 

[Jordan]

1. Will and should the Cavs trade a starter?
Amin Elhassan, ESPN Insider: I'll say yes to "should." The Cavs should explore drastic changes. As I pointed out on The Jump, LeBron's current sidekicks, while universally lauded for their talent, have failed at being self-sufficient without massive contributions by James. To get the most out of this stage of his career, the Cavs must lessen the burden on him by crafting a roster that can survive without him and excel with him.

Will they? That's a tougher question to answer, as it implies a knowledge of how the Cavs see themselves -- they might be in denial about what happened to them -- as well as a willingness for trade partners to deal with them.

Tom Haberstroh, ESPN Insider: I'm not sure there's a market for Tristan Thompson at his price tag, so I'd explore what Kyrie Irving and Kevin Love might fetch on the trade market. The Finals showed a glaring need for two-way players and neither has excelled on both ends.

While Chris Paul would help now, I think the smarter move is to find a younger stud such as Paul George to carry the torch when Draymond Green and Klay Thompson potentially leave after 2018-19.

Chris Herring, FiveThirtyEight/ESPN.com: I'm not sure if they will -- none of us are, since we don't even know yet if general manager David Griffin will be back -- but they probably need to. After what we just witnessed, the Cavs are clearly still the class of the Eastern Conference, and probably will be for another two or three years (depending on what route Boston takes in that span, and how much a club such as Milwaukee improves).

In the meantime, everything they do has to be based on the idea of catching Golden State. They need a lot more defense to compete with the Warriors. While Thompson was bad in this series, Love might be the person most worth dealing. In return, the Cavs badly need another wing player who can create on his own and defend his position well.

Jeremias Engelmann, ESPN Insider: Yes, if they want to get closer to the Warriors' level, the Cavs should look to trade JR Smith (real plus-minus: -1.2) and Thompson (RPM: 0.2).

That's easier said than done: Smith, who is signed through 2019 at about $14 million per season, will not attract lots of takers given his troubled history and given that he shot 35 percent from the field during the season. Thompson makes $17 million per season, is somewhat a one-trick pony (offensive rebounding) and was ineffective for most of the Finals.

Irving and Love are generally pulling their weight and should be traded only if a great deal -- with another superstar -- is offered.

Kevin Pelton, ESPN Insider: I don't expect that they will and I don't really think they should. The Cavaliers showed over the last three games of the Finals that they can compete with the Warriors on relatively even terms. They need to be ready to compete to start a potential fourth consecutive matchup, which hasn't been the case in Games 1 and 2 either of the past two years.

Beyond that, I don't think major changes would help them enough against Golden State to offset potentially hurting Cleveland against Eastern Conference competition.

2. What other moves should Cleveland consider?
Haberstroh: Obviously, the defense needs work, so that's where I'd start first. I'd call up Charlotte and see what the asking price for Michael Kidd-Gilchrist would be. Saving James on the defensive end might be wise for the long term. A deal centered around Thompson might work, considering the Hornets were abysmal on the offensive boards.

Herring: Even if they land a big-time wing player, they probably still need one or two more. Smith and Iman Shumpert are fine, but they aren't the sorts of players you can always rely on in a series. As we saw on that Avery Bradley game-winner from the Boston series, they both lose their way on defense too often.

The team might also benefit from letting James take a true sabbatical, like he did a couple years ago. It might help replenish him some -- this season he ran 47 more miles than Durant did coming into these Finals -- and it would likely build the team up a bit, hopefully to the point where the Cavs aren't getting blasted by 12 in the two minutes James gets a breather during a Finals game.

Elhassan: A focus on the acquisition and development of cheap, two-way talent. The biggest thing the Warriors exploit are lineups that feature players who excel on one end but not the other. Since established two-way talent comes at a premium, Cleveland's best route is to invest more heavily in second-round draftees, D-Leaguers and international free agents.

Pelton: I would try to tweak the bench, which has been a disappointment in the Finals. As valuable as Kyle Korver's shooting is, Cleveland could use a more versatile defender in that spot. I would spend free agency trying to convince PJ Tucker or James Johnson to take the taxpayer mid-level exception.

Engelmann: The Cavs are in the fantastic situation of having James, a player other NBA players want to team up with.

Unfortunately, they haven't used this advantage enough. Instead of signing great players at a discount, they've signed good-but-not-great players to above-market deals. This has led to a situation in which the Cavs can't build a superteam at Golden State's level, as they have zero cap space.

They should look into shedding some of that salary and replacing those players with ring chasers who are content with smaller contracts.

3. Will LeBron James be in Cleveland beyond 2018?
Pelton: Only James knows, and he probably can't predict at this point how he'll feel in a year. The possibility of James becoming a free agent adds a little urgency to the Cavaliers' offseason, but ultimately I think they have to plan as if he'll remain in Cleveland long term.

Engelmann: I think the chances are less than 50 percent. At Thursday's news conference, James said he wants, above all, to compete. The Cavs, unfortunately, are not quite like the Spurs, who seem to develop good players out of nothing, year after year.

Most of the Cavs' deals made in recent years have been on the questionable side, and I don't think they'll be on the Warriors' level anytime soon. James, then, might be looking to compete with a different group. Most likely he'll try to team up with Paul and/or George.

Herring: I think so. He and Carmelo Anthony have each mentioned conversations about the idea of them, Paul and Dwyane Wade all signing with the same club toward the end of their careers. With James and Paul still playing like the max players they are -- and Paul potentially switching teams this summer -- it's hard to see how that can happen over the next few seasons. All things considered, James is still in a great situation with Cleveland. It's just that Golden State has way more talent than the Cavs do.

Elhassan: I would lean toward yes, but then again I also thought he would never leave Miami. Obviously, a move to another franchise would have to feature at least the opportunity for a better situation immediately (much like his return to Cleveland), and that would imply staying in the East, since a West defection would make his path to the Finals more difficult.

Haberstroh: Yes, in the long run. Though I'm convinced he'll retire a Cav, he might make an L.A. pit stop before then. If the question is whether he'll bolt Cleveland in 2018, I'm more and more convinced that he'll get the itch to climb another mountain. He killed the Cleveland curse. What if he killed the Clippers curse? He's not one for the road most traveled.

4. Which is more true?
A. The Cavs need to make big changes now.
B. The Cavs need to bring back the team and hope for the best.

Herring: A. I think this was a thorough enough beating that it's clear very little would have changed the eventual outcome in this series. At full strength, I highly doubt that this collection of players can beat Golden State's collection of players.

So if you bring back largely the same group, it seems as if you're merely hoping something happens to the Warriors. They might be forced to part ways with a key role player or two -- Andre Iguodala's contract is up this summer, for instance -- but even if you whittle Golden State down some, the Warriors have the league's best roster and arguably two of its three best superstars.

Pelton: B. Depending on what the Boston Celtics are able to add in free agency, the Cavaliers do run the risk that if they weaken their team overall to match up better with the Warriors, they might never get to the NBA Finals to face them at all. The primary focus should remain on putting together the best overall team, and I don't think drastic changes would likely help in that regard.

Engelmann: A. James might not have lost his patience yet, but he will if the Cavs lose again to the Warriors in 2018. The front office has to at least show the willingness to shake things up. They can't come back with this exact same group and expect a different result.

Elhassan: A. If the goal is to make the Finals, realistically they can stay put and accomplish that feat. But, as I have maintained since the Finals last year, there is a huge gap between the Warriors and Cavs, a gap that widened considerably in July 2016. One of the most important questions any NBA team can ask itself is, "Who are we?" When answered truthfully, it helps avoid the delusion that leads to staying a course that is less than ideal.

The Cavs won last year because a remarkable set of circumstances that in all likelihood was not repeatable, even without Durant being on the opposing side. As such, the only way they can hope to compete against the Warriors is by making some changes, namely going after the type of two-way talent Golden State features. They should not hesitate to part ways with anyone not named LeBron James if it means acquiring high-level talent such as George or Jimmy Butler (or both?).

Haberstroh: A. James is in the market solely for titles at this point, so sitting on their hands doesn't seem prudent. The team made a big play for offensive firepower at the deadline, but ignoring defense is not a championship recipe. Also, the Cavs need to take the Boston Celtics seriously. If the Cavs don't make a real upgrade on the defensive end, Boston is a big free-agent signing away from taking their spot in the Finals.

5. How many NBA Finals appearances and NBA titles do you expect for the Cavs in next five years?
Elhassan: I'll go with three appearances and no titles. I have confidence that James will still be dominant in the near future, but there is no guarantee that even the most drastic of changes will result in a product that will be as good as the Warriors (given that we expect them to keep their core four together).

Haberstroh: I'll set the line at 1.5 for appearances and 0.5 for titles. The days of a breezy Eastern Conference are over. The Celtics have already nabbed the No. 1 seed. With cap space and a No. 1 pick on the way to Beantown, the Cavs aren't a lock for the Finals anymore.

Herring: Assuming James doesn't jump ship? Four appearances. One title. I could see something happening, whether it's health-related or something else, tripping up the Warriors at least once in the years to come. I think the teams in the East are still a ways away from knocking off James. Someone does it by the end of this upcoming five-year run, but probably not more than once.

Engelmann: I'd say three Finals appearances, assuming that James stays for another three years. Titles? I'd put the over/under at 0.5. Even if these Warriors break up, which it doesn't look like they will, other Western Conference teams are likely to be a bit stronger than the Cavaliers. For example, had the Spurs come out of the West, they probably would have been the favorites in the Finals.

Pelton: James' free agency complicates things to some extent, but I would say the lines are set at 2.5 Finals appearances and 0.5 championships. I might take the under on both. James can't remain the best player in the NBA forever -- at least I don't think he can -- and before too long, I expect age to bring Cleveland back to the East pack.

What a fucking waste of space. Engelmann is literally the worst NBA "analyst" around.

 

[RichieRichPaul]

As much as I dislike Amin, he is right

Cavs need to make major moves and not convince themselves they'll beat the warriors

 

[FrontPageNews]

If we get can get melo for pieces and parts that would be a big enough move to put us over the top.

I can't imagine the damage a motivated melo would do being guarded by the 3rd or 4th best defender on the other team.

 

[Brevin Knight]

The bench was the biggest disappointment in the finals. I think this should be the main focus and not the starting five. Last year management waited too long to finalize the roster I think this should be top priority now.

 

[bigfoot5415]

If we get can get melo for pieces and parts that would be a big enough move to put us over the top.

I can't imagine the damage a motivated melo would do being guarded by the 3rd or 4th best defender on the other team.

You would be looking at Olympic Melo.

 

[1B4IGO]

I'd think Paul George would be a good start. Don't know what it would take but the defense would be much better.

 

[czvo]

Two thoughts come to mind reading that:

1. Why the fuck would LeBron give two shits about a "Clippers curse?" Tom Haberstroh appears to COMPLETELY miss the point of LeBron returning to Cleveland, which, honestly, isn't surprising. Look, if James didn't grow up in NEO, he wouldn't give two shits about the "curse" here. I think we can all agree on that. LeBron doesn't seem interested so much in "ending curses," as much as he just wanted to win a title for Cleveland.

2. Why would Haberstroh assume Boston will be competitive because they got the 1 seed and the #1 pick? Did we not just see the Cavs beat the bejeesus out of Boston three times? Maybe if the Celtics can land one or two stars, but they haven't, and until they do, I see no reason to consider them a real threat.