2017 Spring Training Thread

[Lee]

I'm not saying he can't play third. I'm saying the method to which people are saying he plays third well is getting ridiculous.

We've got a John Sickels scouting report and maybe Fangraphs, I guess.

Francona is telling people straight up how hard he needs to work to get there, but we're talking about minor league fielding percentages and the gut feeling of some dude who puts 'lol' after 80 percent of his posts.

It's fucking painful to read, is all.

Lets talk bats only then.

Was Yandy the best bat in our Minors, not prospect, but pure bat?

If so, dont you think there has to be a way to get that bat to the majors? If not, who do you think is better.

PS, seeing Mejier in person is eye opening how the ball naturally jumps off of his bat, and to me he is the best bat, but i am very limited in knowledge on the Indians farm system.

 

[DJTJ]

Am I taking the scouts who get paid to evaluate minor leaguers over a guy who is paid to motivate major leaguers and really hasn't seen said player before this spring all that much? Doesn't seem unreasonable. Especially considering Francona's infatuation with Martinez and Aviles, he might have a bit of a blind spot here.

Uh, you realize the scouting reports the Indians have internally are likely vastly superior, right?

 

[DJTJ]

Lets talk bats only then.

Was Yandy the best bat in our Minors, not prospect, but pure bat?

If so, dont you think there has to be a way to get that bat to the majors? If not, who do you think is better.

PS, seeing Mejier in person is eye opening how the ball naturally jumps off of his bat, and to me he is the best bat, but i am very limited in knowledge on the Indians farm system.

Yeah, you get the best bat and you stick him at DH.

We have three people who will play DH on our 25 man and Yandy Diaz isn't superior to any of them.

 

[BimboColesHair]

Lets talk bats only then.

Was Yandy the best bat in our Minors, not prospect, but pure bat?

If so, dont you think there has to be a way to get that bat to the majors? If not, who do you think is better.

PS, seeing Mejier in person is eye opening how the ball naturally jumps off of his bat, and to me he is the best bat, but i am very limited in knowledge on the Indians farm system.

Even with Mejia posting a pretty historic season last year, his OPS for his career in the minors is still 30 points lower than Diaz and his career OPS (.784 vs .813).

But yes, Mejia is the better prospect, by far, but Diaz the better hitter. Mejia has more potential overall, hits for more power, plays a much more valuable position, is a switch hitter, and is 4 years younger...he outclasses Diaz by a wide margin, as a prospect.

But right now, I think Diaz is easily the best bat on our farm. Not the most potential, or the best power bat, or anything like that...just from a pure hitting standpoint, i.e. putting the ball in play with a high rate of success, working counts, taking walks, etc.

And there are multiple ways to get his bat in an MLB lineup. But it starts with him settling down in the field...but he has played 4 positions as a minor league player already (3B, 2B, LF, RF)...now they need to find which spot he is most suited for, or keep him a utility until one of those spots opens for him to try to take.

 

[AZ_]

Am I taking the scouts who get paid to evaluate minor leaguers over a guy who is paid to motivate major leaguers and really hasn't seen said player before this spring all that much? Doesn't seem unreasonable. Especially considering Francona's infatuation with Martinez and Aviles, he might have a bit of a blind spot here.

Is the contention here that Francona's comments re: Diaz are simply intended to motivate?

Even if that were true, what relevance does that have to Martinez and Aviles?

 

[BimboColesHair]

Is the contention here that Francona's comments re: Diaz are simply intended to motivate?

Even if that were true, what relevance does that have to Martinez and Aviles?

If you've watched Diaz play, you know what Tito is saying is right...especially the story about how he reacted taking grounders after the Kip news came out and he was told he has a shot to make the team...

Also, the Indians are pretty stingy when it comes to allowing scouts and prospect publications to get their hands on their own scouting reports for their own prospects, in comparison to how some other teams operate...why you see discrepancies in Indians prospect rankings and quite a few guys who people think "come out of nowhere"...

So the most a scout can really get on our players is what their eyes tell them in like a 3-6 game sample, and maybe even less from the "scouts" on websites making their own scouting reports, since those guys tend to try to get around to everyone to make their top 100 or 150 lists, since those generate more clicks than full organization rankings.

But the thing I'll continue to hammer home is there is nothing physically wrong with Diaz and his defense, speaking as someone who has caught a lot of his games, albeit most through a TV screen...he has good hands, is good receiver, and has a good arm...but the dude just gets a little too ahead of himself defensively and puts himself in bad positions a little too often. He bats at like 5 MPH every time he's up, but fields at like 95 MPH for stretches at a time, which is weird...but hopefully something that can be improved upon.

 

[7foot3]

Uh, you realize the scouting reports the Indians have internally are likely vastly superior, right?

They are probably better, but what are the odds that pretty much across the board, national scouts like Diaz's defense there, but the Indians' scouts think he stinks? It's not like the reviews are mixed. Sickels, BA, BP, and Fangraphs all have scouts who make a point to praise his defense.

And if Francona is primarily relying on internal reports that say he stinks at 3B, whats the point of this spring training evaluation?

A guess, but I think the constant negging of Diaz is more of a motivational tool than anything else. Francona's job isn't as much talent evalution, and he has enough misses there to question his decisions, as much as motivating and preparing guys to play solid baseball over the course of a season, which he is really darn good at.

 

[7foot3]

Is the contention here that Francona's comments re: Diaz are simply intended to motivate?

Even if that were true, what relevance does that have to Martinez and Aviles?

The contention is that Francona's few weeks of watching in Spring Training are not necessarily a trump card over an across the board scouting evaluation. He shouldn't have seen Diaz as much as the scouts have, and he has some player eval misses on his record. The motivation part is a complete shot in the dark.

 

[AZ_]

The contention is that Francona's few weeks of watching in Spring Training are not necessarily a trump card over an across the board scouting evaluation. He shouldn't have seen Diaz as much as the scouts have, and he has some player eval misses on his record. The motivation part is a complete shot in the dark.

Do you think Tito is just making player development decisions without the consultation of his front office?

No, of course not. The scouts haven't seen as much of Diaz as the Indians organization has, nor does John Sickels have a flawless record of prospect evaluation.

So, what's this all about? It's not like Martinez is running out there every other day at 3B.

There is also a difference between liking the tools at 3B and being ready to play there in a big league role. The Indians feel those tools are a work in progress and he's got some work to do in that area, not an wholly out of line position.

 

[sportscoach]

Am I taking the scouts who get paid to evaluate minor leaguers over a guy who is paid to motivate major leaguers and really hasn't seen said player before this spring all that much? Doesn't seem unreasonable. Especially considering Francona's infatuation with Martinez and Aviles, he might have a bit of a blind spot here.

I kind of have to side with Francona since at the end of the day his evaluation says whether or not someone make the team. I am thinking the scouts in the minors though have said to me that potential for Diaz fielding wise is higher than he is showing on the field. Also I think like Az_ said some of his words may be to motivate Diaz to be better/reach that potential that the scouts keep saying he has the makings for it. Either way Diaz has to show he is better than his defensive numbers so far have been at 3B and prove the scouts are right to really be apart of this team.

 

[7foot3]

Do you think Tito is just making player development decisions without the consultation of his front office?

No, of course not. The scouts haven't seen as much of Diaz as the Indians organization has, nor does John Sickels have a flawless record of prospect evaluation.

So, what's this all about? It's not like Martinez is running out there every other day at 3B.

There is also a difference between liking the tools at 3B and being ready to play there in a big league role. The Indians feel those tools are a work in progress and he's got some work to do in that area, not an wholly out of line position.

We're really not far apart, but this just seems like too much of an argument from authority. Last year we opened with Uribe at 3B, two years before that Carlos Santana. Whether it be just Francona or the entire front office, we've seen enough not to just simply assume the team is right about this one.

And it's not just Sickels. You'd be hard-pressed to find a scouting report that doesn't praise his defense. It's not that people are focused on one report that agrees with their viewpoint.

I'm not saying that Diaz's defense is fine at 3B. I'm not even saying the Indians are wrong in their evaluation. Maybe, like BCH suggests, he's been pressing a bit too much this spring. I'm saying when we hear something from a non-scout that flies in the face of what all the scouts are saying, we should be a bit skeptical.

 

[sportscoach]

Though for a change we shouldn't actually have to worry about 3B. We haven't had anyone at 3B since Casey Blake left when we traded him for Santana. Ramirez still may be our long term at 3B, but we also have Diaz, who is a skilled hitter and Urshela, who is a gold glove caliber fielder. We don't have to worry about 3B anymore lol

 

[Huber.]

Someone tag me when you guys aren't stuck on debating Yandy Diaz anymore.

 

[sportscoach]

Someone tag me when you guys aren't stuck on debating Yandy Diaz anymore.

Who do you think is getting the utility spot/last spot on the roster?

 

[BimboColesHair]

Who do you think is getting the utility spot/last spot on the roster?

Don't...